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PattyPryor
Guest
Why Me- Are you Mormon seeking a Catholic Faith or a Mormon Troll please answer me. Your posts just confuse me
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CathCentrist
Guest
I cant beleive some catholics here try to broad brush mormonism…just like all catholics dont have the same viewpoints on matters of faith - thats a fact, not all mormons share the same views either of their religion I’d imagine if one uses some common sense.
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RC_Matt
Guest
If they used some common sense they’d no longer be Mormons.
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xmormon
Guest
What is a cult. Historically cults did abominable things like kill their own children believing it was their gods will etc. Well call the office of the LDS presidency 18012401000 ask them to read you their official position on abortion. When they tell you they believe their god will give divine confirmation through prayer for abortions in the cases of rape, incest, deformity, risk to the mothers life and risk to the mothers health, stop and think about it, read Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton when you find out the LDS church allows the same abortions and does it believing it is their gods will ask yourself again if they are a cult. You need to be very honest with yourself at this point, remember your eternal soul is at risk…
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CathCentrist
Guest
I consider Mormons closer in faith than Isam wich the Popes like to state we have in common…I reject all of Islam regardles what a Pope says about it
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oneGODoneCHURCH
Guest
on the surface I can see that until you see that like Christians Islam believes in only one God, Where though we don’t know how many gods Mormons think there are we do know that they believe at there are at least 4.
- God the Father
- Jesus is another
- the Holy Spirit is another
Heavenly mother, God the fathers’ wife.
The first 3 do not make up the Trinity as we know it but are 2 individual/ separate gods in Mormonism.
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majick275
Guest
so you wish to gloss over the works of LDS historians who had access to documents that are hidden away from the rest of us by posting links to LDS propaganda sites who have created ridiculous ad hominems against these people because they can’t argue the facts?
You just can’t seem to do much more than say all history is inaccurate and no one can prove or disprove anything so go to LDS missionary sites and get preached to. at least you seemed to have stopped with the myth that you are catholic.
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majick275
Guest
the catholic church has a well defined catechism on matters of faith and catholic individuals who choose to believe something else do so at peril of mortal sin. Mormons also have binding doctrine, they try to avoid specifics but it’s there if you know where to look.
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CathCentrist
Guest
Again, not evey catholic believes everything the church says, nor should I think every Mormon, Muslim, evangenital, etc. Thats life.
I will take each person on their sayings what they believe, not what church or group they belong to and what that group says is their doctrine.
I will take each person on their sayings what they believe, not what church or group they belong to and what that group says is their doctrine.
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ApostateRLDS
Guest
Typical TBM response. When ya can’t dispute the truth, discredit the source by claiming they have an ‘agenda’, call them antis or use some other ad hominem attack.
It was despicable when the church used this defense against Fawn Brodie and Simon Southerton, and it’s still the last resort of a scoundrel.
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majick275
Guest
how does that help? if someone chooses to believe differently than the binding doctrine of their church then can they really say they are an adherent of that religion? i recognize some room for individual interpretation but the cafeteria catholic is really no different than the anglican, lutheran, etc. that shares some core beliefs but has differences that result in practice so dissimilar as to constitute a separate church.
the same i think holds for true for mormons. are the FLDS or CoC really mormons? they think so but SLC differs on that and they ARE separate churches.
the same i think holds for true for mormons. are the FLDS or CoC really mormons? they think so but SLC differs on that and they ARE separate churches.
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tonnnie2008
Guest
why do u feel the need to take up for mormonism if you believe it. The problem is you don’t believe it , you doubt it as you really should. It is a false religion.
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xmormon
Guest
Could you possibly be speaking about the premier LDS Historian B.H. Roberts you know the most scholarly B. H. Roberts who compiled Official LDS Church history (see his footnotes all throughout the many volume set). After he studied Joseph Smiths era in the greatest depth it had ever been studied he became disenchanted with Joseph Smith and Wrote several works showing the problems connected with the Book of Mormon etc. He described in detail the impossibilities in the Book, and the many inconsistencies in Josephs stories etc. When he presented his works to the LDS leaders (of which he was one) They each in turn refused to read his work and instead chastised him and then bore their strong testimony to the truthfulness of Joseph Smith. Fact is the Mountain of evidence against Joseph smith is overwhelming and the LDS church itself has many times directly and indirectly admitted he was a fraud. (Read the articles in the Ensign magazine on the Kinderhook plates, and the Papyrus Joseph said was the Book of Abraham just for starters)…so you wish to gloss over the works of LDS historians who had access to documents that are hidden away from the rest of us by posting links to LDS propaganda sites who have created ridiculous ad hominems against these people because they can’t argue the facts?
You just can’t seem to do much more than say all history is inaccurate and no one can prove or disprove anything so go to LDS missionary sites and get preached to. at least you seemed to have stopped with the myth that you are catholic.
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justinthemartyr
Guest
The Mormon church is an entirely different religion, with a different Jesus, and totally different Godhead in particular.
It is impossible to say that they are not a cult, in the sense of the word that they are not true Christians, for they do not adhere to the apostles doctrines as specified in scripture and the Church Christ built.
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RC_Matt
Guest
From what I’ve read of the history, at least in the early days of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, it certainly was a cult; along the same lines as the contemporary Warren Jeffs group, which claims itself to be the TRUE Mormon church (the TRUE one true church???)
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PattyPryor
Guest
I agree. You should read the whole thread I cahnge my thoughts later
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PattyPryor
Guest
anyone know if I will enjoy the book no man knows my history?
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
The qualities of individuals do not alter the doctrines of Mormonism. There have been, are, & always will be, utterly vile & beastly Catholics - but in no way does that alter the fact that the CC is the Spotless Bride of Christ. And neither can the individual un-beastly Mormon alter the fact that Mormonism is a cult & a heresy. If it wants to be Christian, it will have to renounce its heresies & blasphemies, such as
- its polytheism
- its denial of the Blessed Trinity
- its denial of Original Sin
- its additional Scriptures
- its expanded Book of Genesis
- its doctrine that Christ & Satan are brothers (!!!)
- & so on
It is not the fault of its critics that it is not thought Christian - for that, it has no one to blame but itself. Those errors are among its fruits too. To call it a cult, is too much of a compliment.
- & so on
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xmormon
Guest
If a cult involves using pagan writings to get your cannon of scripture then here is one for you…
Honesty is of utmost importance if one is ever to see the truth about Mormonism. I was once a rabid Mormon defender however, the truth about the Book of Abraham admitted to by the LDS church and several Egyptologists left me shaking my head at what an obvious fraud Joseph Smith really was. Briefly, according to LDS writers, the “Book of Abraham” was supposed to have been written on papyrus by Abraham about 4,000 years ago. This very same papyrus, it is claimed, was acquired by Joseph Smith from an antiquities dealer in 1835. Smith translated the papyrus and published it under the title, “The Book of Abraham.” It was accepted by the Mormon Church as Scripture and is now published as part of the Pearl of Great Price - one of the four standard works of the church.
Many problems have now arisen due to these claims
Honesty is of utmost importance if one is ever to see the truth about Mormonism. I was once a rabid Mormon defender however, the truth about the Book of Abraham admitted to by the LDS church and several Egyptologists left me shaking my head at what an obvious fraud Joseph Smith really was. Briefly, according to LDS writers, the “Book of Abraham” was supposed to have been written on papyrus by Abraham about 4,000 years ago. This very same papyrus, it is claimed, was acquired by Joseph Smith from an antiquities dealer in 1835. Smith translated the papyrus and published it under the title, “The Book of Abraham.” It was accepted by the Mormon Church as Scripture and is now published as part of the Pearl of Great Price - one of the four standard works of the church.
Many problems have now arisen due to these claims
- LDS egyptologists and others now can read the papyrus Joseph Smith claimed was the book of Abraham written on by Abraham himself. They all agree that it is not the book of Abraham and doesn’t even mention Abraham. It is a common Egyptian funeral text call the book of breathings etc. The LDS church admitted this in their magazine, The Ensign, July 1988, pp. 51-53, Michael Rhodes (an LDS Egyptologist)tried to answer the following question: "Why doesn’t the translation of the Egyptian papyri, match the text of the Book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price? In this article Michael Rhodes clearly laid out the problem which faced the church: “First of all, from paleographic and historical considerations, the Book of Breathings papyrus can reliably be dated to around A.D. 60 - much too late for Abraham to have written it… when one compares the text of the book of Abraham with a translation of the Book of Breathings; they clearly are not the same.” "Before I start, let me say that I… like you, definitely favor the second; namely that Joseph Smith did not have the actual text of the Book of Abraham before him… There is no doubt that the original Papyrus of Facsimile Number1 belongs to the Book of Breathings text. The name of the owner of the Papyrus, Hor son of Userwer, is found both on this papyrus and in the text of the Book of Breathings… although we do not have the original of Facsimile Number 3, the name Hor can clearly be read in the hieroglyphs on this facsimile, and it seems very probable that this illustration was originally located at the end of the Book of Breathings papyrus now in the Church’s possession. I am not ruling it out completely, but I think it is unlikely that Joseph Smith ever had the actual text of the Book of Abraham in his possession… " The RLDS church took the Book of Abraham out of their cannon of scripture because it was an obvious fraud.
- Joseph Smith made a book called “Egyptian alphabet and Grammar” This book was a key he used in translating the papyrus. IN this book he had a column of Egyptian characters on the left and to the right he gave a translation. Sometimes Joseph translated one symbol into a half chapters of words when in reality one symbol was never more than one word or a short phrase. Now Egyptologists can read this and all agree that Joseph Smith’s translation was completely false. Not even one word matched. 3. LDS apologists came up with the argument that Joseph Smith didn’t have the book of Abraham and didn’t translate the papyrus but God gave him a revelation instead. The problems with these arguments is Joseph Smith repeatedly said he translated the book in official LDS history (see exact references below) and the original foreword to the book said it was taken from papyrus written upon by the hand of Abraham himself. . 4. Facsimile translations are completely false. Example, in the book a picture depicts a man lying on a table with another man standing over him and a bird hovering above. Joseph Smith said this was Abraham on an alter about to be sacrificed by one of the Egyptian priests, the bird was an angel sent to deliver him etc. All Egyptologists know this actually represents a man being mummified and prepared for entrance into the Egyptian after life.
Code:
Joseph Smith not only said that he was going to translate the records, but he also maintained he produced a "correct translation" of the documents:
"The record of Abraham and Joseph, found with the mummies [sic] is beautifully written... I have given a brief history of the manner in which the writings of the fathers, Abraham and Joseph, have been preserved, and how I came in possession of the same - a correct translation of which I shall give in its proper place." (History of the Church, vol. 2, pp. 348, 350-51)
"The remainder of this month, I was continually engaged in translating an alphabet to the Book of Abraham, and arranging a grammar of the Egyptian language as practiced by the ancients." (History of the Church, vol. 2, page 238)
"October 1. -This afternoon I labored on the Egyptian alphabet... during the research, the principles of astronomy as understood by Father Abraham and the ancients unfolded to our understanding, the particulars of which will appear hereafter. (Ibid., page 286)
Tuesday, [Nov.] 24. - ... In the afternoon we translated some of the Egyptian records ....
Thursday, 26. - Spent the day in translating Egyptian characters from the papyrus... (Ibid., page 320)
At the beginning of the handwritten manuscript of the Book of Abraham, Joseph Smith asserted that it was a "Translation of the Book of Abraham written by his own hand upon papyrus and found in the catacombs of Egypt."- Status