Mormonism; there are many ways of proving it wrong.

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I think he doesn’t get that the saints are canonized because…they fully followed CATHOLIC dogma.
 
ParkerD said:
Religio71,
I do understand the thinking behind infant baptism as being at the age of the “old covenant”, circumcision being the sign of that covenant. But this new gospel has a new covenant. The New Testament is clear that the gift of the Holy Spirit follows immediately after baptism, not years later.

The Jews were a covenant people by birth. Under the new covenant, the Gentiles are received as well as the house of Israel, and it is by their listening and believing and accepting Christ and repenting and then being baptized, followed by receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.

There is so much more meaning to the ordinance of baptism when looked at as a covenant of choice, a personal commitment on the part of a believer using their own judgement and reasoning. They embrace the gospel and commit to live it for their entire lives, and place a seal on that decision by letting themselves be “buried” in the water so they can come forth with a newness of life, a true “second birth.”
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Col 2:11-12

11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Why then did some receive the Holy Spirit before baptism? Also, how soon is “immediately”? Confirmation in the LDS Church is not always immediately after baptism, as converts are many times confirmed a week later.

For me, infant baptism is more meaningful. The infant is brought into the new covenant, as they were through circumcision in the old covenant (circumcision was indeed seen as a welcoming into the covenant). They receive all the blessings that come with baptism. As the Bible says whole households were baptized, so too do Catholics baptize whole households. Once Catholics are able to, they can make a personal commitment to be full members of the Church, and are confirmed, receiving the Holy Spirit.

I also think we need to be clear that just because a church practices baptism later, does not mean that members are any more likely to fully live that faith. In fact, one only needs to look at convert retention, as well as percent of members that are temple worthy and go to temple, to see that this is the case. No matter when baptism happens, people still choose to fall away as well, so I see no greater commitment to “live it for their entire lives”, whether this occurs at baptism at age 8 or confirmation later.
 
Religio71 said:
No matter when baptism happens, people still choose to fall away as well, so I see no greater commitment to “live it for their entire lives”, whether this occurs at baptism at age 8 or confirmation later.
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I agree. My wife and I were both baptized as infants and so far 'haved lived it our entire lives." Some phrases Mormons use as if they are unique in their beliefs or practices, just surprise me. As if it changes the simple theology of baptism: forgive sins, enter into the new covenant.
“To Catholics baptism has a deep, profound, spiritual meaning, which is very deep and profound, and spiritual.(being sarcastic)”
Even more interesting to me is how Mormons have twisted the chapter in Hebrews that spells out Christ establishing the new covenant into the invention of a priesthood that never existed.
 
Religio71 said:
I think he doesn’t get that the saints are canonized because…they fully followed CATHOLIC dogma.
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Most of the modern saints followed the bible in their actions toward others. Mother Cabrini for example for her work among the immigrants. Mother Theresa for her work among the poor. Katherine Drexel, for her work among the African and Native Americans. Elizabeth Ann Seton for her work among the youth…

No saint needed to take a doctrine test. They put their faith to good works and gave the world miracles.
 
PaulDupre said:
The only things why me knows about Catholicism is what he/she reads on the internet.
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Hopefully the catholic church will put you charge of 'Who is a Catholic Committee. You will be responisble for giving catholic doctrine tests to members of your parish. Those that fail or read the internet about their faith can be reeducated by your special group of trained instructors. Lets hope for good results.
 
Stephen168 said:
and they are not liars
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You will be incharge of the new Catholic Initiative Committee. Your job if you accepted it Stephen will be to root out liars both real or imaginary. Between you and Paul the catholic church will be purged of heretics.

Now we just need someone who knows their doctrine to mark and interview catholics or phony catholics…ummm…who can that be…🤷
 
twopekinguys said:
BINGO!!! We have a Winner!!

Pay the man!
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You will be on the witness committee. Your job if you accepted it will be to testify of the results if the heretic is discovered. I assume that you are the catholic right? No methodist will be allowed on the special witness committee.
 
why_me said:
The saints are for everyone to model and follow. Why wouldn’t a mormon learn from mother theresa or saint therese or any other saint? And why wouldn’t a catholic want a mormon or a protestant to follow a saint in how to do life? It is all for the better good.
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Of course the example of the Saints can teach anyone the question is, why aren’t there examples in your faith (LDS) of women like these?
why_me said:
Do you seriously think that mother theresa would not help a hindu or a mormon? And katherine drexel, I am sure that she is helping the Native American who ask her for help. And saint therese stated that in heaven she wants to do good on earth. Not just for catholics but for the world.
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I never commented on them but on the lack of people like them in the LDS faith. Would St. Therese de Lisieux The Little Flower of Jesus have been able to write as she did if she had been married with children (as required in LDS theology and culture)? If she had to do her home visiting, teaching in primary or fulfill a her calling in YW or RS, give talks in SM, clean the chapel on so forth, on top of raising a family? You talk of Dorthy Day and Mother Teresa (they are current examples you should google for older examples of the same selfless dedication), where are the LDS equivalents? Why do you have to look to the Catholic church for these examples? You exhort people here to behave like them while still preferring a faith that has none like those you hold up as an example.

The reason these people did what they did is because Catholic doctrine taught them to, they believed what the Church teaches and lived it. So where are the LDS people dedicated to caring for the poor, developing spirituality, Catholic saints live out Catholic doctrine, and you can see it in action, where is LDS action?

:)I’m guessing from your naming Katherine you didn’t understand my grouping.
 
zaffiroborant said:
Of course the example of the Saints can teach anyone the question is, why aren’t there examples in your faith (LDS) of women like these?

I never commented on them but on the lack of people like them in the LDS faith. Would St. Therese de Lisieux The Little Flower of Jesus have been able to write as she did if she had been married with children (as required in LDS theology and culture)? If she had to do her home visiting, teaching in primary or fulfill a her calling in YW or RS, give talks in SM, clean the chapel on so forth, on top of raising a family? You talk of Dorthy Day and Mother Teresa (they are current examples you should google for older examples of the same selfless dedication), where are the LDS equivalents? Why do you have to look to the Catholic church for these examples? You exhort people here to behave like them while still preferring a faith that has none like those you hold up as an example.

The reason these people did what they did is because Catholic doctrine taught them to, they believed what the Church teaches and lived it. So where are the LDS people dedicated to caring for the poor, developing spirituality, Catholic saints live out Catholic doctrine, and you can see it in action, where is LDS action?

:)I’m guessing from your naming Katherine you didn’t understand my grouping.
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The catholic faith has its way and the mormon faith has its own way. Likewise for many protestant faiths. There are people doing wonderful things in many different faiths. But catholics give special honor to a select group of people who did wonders and miracles. That is the catholic way. Katherine Drexel is a fine example of a woman who happened to be a nun who did great things for African and Native Americans. She is a credit to her faith.

But there are mormons and protestants doing great things too. But these saints that I mentioned did not bash others or mock others. They just did their work quietly changing the world. And this can be seen also in the work of Edith Stein and the Holocaust as mentioned in the vatican newspaper a couple of weeks ago. No gnawing or gnashing of teeh. If catholics have such saints, they should learn from them. Be a wonderful witness of the faith through action…in other words, they should all strive toward sainthood.
 
why_me said:
You will be on the witness committee. Your job if you accepted it will be to testify of the results if the heretic is discovered. I assume that you are the catholic right? No methodist will be allowed on the special witness committee.
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and you obviously are already on the LDS missionary committee with the job to preach heresy to Catholics.

you are fooling no one so just give it up.
 
PaulDupre said:
The only things why me knows about Catholicism is what he/she reads on the internet.
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But as much as s/he scans the internet s/he will never get the Catholic view/understanding of faith and reason.

An example of something NOT Catholic, “And the Lord spake, saying, "Thy shalt only use immersion. Then shalt thou wait until age eight, no more, no less. Eight shall be the number thou shalt use, and the number of the waiting shall be eight. Nine shalt thou not wait, neither baptize at seven, excepting that thou then proceed to eight. Ten is right out. Once the number eight, being the eighth number, be reached, then dunkest thee in thy pool.”
 
Stephen168 said:
But as much as s/he scans the internet s/he will never get the Catholic view/understanding of faith and reason.

An example of something NOT Catholic, “And the Lord spake, saying, "Thy shalt only use immersion. Then shalt thou wait until age eight, no more, no less. Eight shall be the number thou shalt use, and the number of the waiting shall be eight. Nine shalt thou not wait, neither baptize at seven, excepting that thou then proceed to eight. Ten is right out. Once the number eight, being the eighth number, be reached, then dunkest thee in thy pool.”
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Love it!!!

(The LDS here probably don’t get the allusion. After all, it was rated “R”, so they would not be allowed to watch it.)
 
Stephen168 said:
But as much as s/he scans the internet s/he will never get the Catholic view/understanding of faith and reason.

An example of something NOT Catholic, “And the Lord spake, saying, "Thy shalt only use immersion. Then shalt thou wait until age eight, no more, no less. Eight shall be the number thou shalt use, and the number of the waiting shall be eight. Nine shalt thou not wait, neither baptize at seven, excepting that thou then proceed to eight. Ten is right out. Once the number eight, being the eighth number, be reached, then dunkest thee in thy pool.”
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The strangest thing this brings out is the fact that if a child is baptized after 8 years old (even a few weeks after their 9th birthday), they are considered “converts”. A child who is not baptized at 8, before they turn 9, must go through the mormon missionary lessons before being baptized.
 
Oh boy!!! I’m on a committee!!! Yippee!!!

Is there a committee for telling people who needs to go to confession and why?

Oh wait, I think someone self appointed themselves to that one.

Always a groomsmen, and never a groom I guess.

🤷
 
twopekinguys said:
Oh boy!!! I’m on a committe!!! Yippee!!!

Is there a committe for telling people who needs to go to confession and why?

Oh wait, I think someone self appointed themselves to that one.
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You’re in charge of keeping track of who has complied to the committee ruling, and who has not.

For a fee, I’ll write an app for you.
 
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