Mormonism

[nebula]

Since there are several threads going aro und talking about the subject, I wanted to add my two cents. The main issue that I have with Mormonism is that it is not upfront with people about what its core theology is all about. The leadership is incredibly focused on numbers, increasing convert baptisms, to the point of publicly denying things that they hold to be true. This unfortunate state of affairs compells me to state the facts when the opportunity shows itself.

Despite Mormonism cloaking itself as standard Christianity, it is really, very other.

• Mormonism teaches polytheism. The Father, Son, Holy Ghost and Heavenly Mother are all separate gods (and goddesses), distinct beings.
• Mormonism teaches that we and these gods are actually of the same species, that is, Heavenly Father is simply a normal man, all grown up. We can aspire to become gods and goddesses just as heavenly father and mother deity.
• Mormonism teaches that in order to become gods (become exalted) we must join their church and partake of their ordinances: baptism, confirmation, endowment ceremony (in the temple), and an eternal or celestial marriage (performed in the temple).

I could go on, but really the above items are the root as to why I felt that I had to leave the LDS church as I realized ti was an offense to the one and only true God.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

Indeed. Mormonism and like minded sects know if they presented their faith in reletive completeness, they wouldnt get 1/10 of the converts they do–as it is, its figured up to 80% of people baptized Mormon-converts stop attending stake meetings w/in 6 months–because thats when they start learning about the polytheism, eternal progression, etc…

Wheras, regarding the Catholic Faith: scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

 

[nebula]

Indeed. Mormonism and like minded sects know if they presented their faith in reletive completeness, they wouldnt get 1/10 of the converts they do–as it is, its figured up to 80% of people baptized Mormon-converts stop attending stake meetings w/in 6 months–because thats when they start learning about the polytheism, eternal progression, etc…

Wheras, regarding the Catholic Faith: scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Yes it’s so true. THe leadership is so proud to pronounce that there are 13 million members of the LDS church, but you can immediately halve that if you want to count only the people who consider themselves Mormons. At some point, it all gets to be too much to swallow. There is zero evidence that Joseph Smith wasn’t just making stuff up as he went, and eventually I had to come to the conclusion that that is what did indeed happen.

 

[falisrm]

only like 10% of them attend church and that 10% only go for 45 minutes a week. The rest of the time they are out there barbaqueing and having a grand ol’ time.

Catholic acurracy of 65 million is just an estimate based on death records…go figure.

 

[nebula]

Indeed. Mormonism and like minded sects know if they presented their faith in reletive completeness, they wouldnt get 1/10 of the converts they do–as it is, its figured up to 80% of people baptized Mormon-converts stop attending stake meetings w/in 6 months–because thats when they start learning about the polytheism, eternal progression, etc…

Wheras, regarding the Catholic Faith: scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

only like 10% of them attend church and that 10% only go for 45 minutes a week. The rest of the time they are out there barbaqueing and having a grand ol’ time.

Catholic acurracy of 65 million is just an estimate based on death records…go figure.

Fal,

Devotion to a heresy doesn’t make it any less of a heresy. It doesn’t offend God any less if you devote more time, energy and money to something which is polytheistic. If you really care about God and His Truth, you’ll think carefully about your own theology.

 

[falisrm]

I dont understand your terms catholic boy.

 

[nebula]

I dont understand your terms catholic boy.

I"m not a Catholic, but I’d be happy to explain.

Polytheism= the belief in and worship of more than one god. If you want to know why Mormonism fits that description, see my OP.

Any other terms which confused you?

 

[falisrm]

Yes, what does that have to do with my 10% church attendance comment?

 

[nebula]

I dont understand your terms catholic boy.

Yes, what does that have to do with my 10% church attendance comment?

My point was that you can be sincere and devoted to what is ultimately a lie and a heresy. Spending 20 hrs a week devoted to a lie and heresy doesn’t suddenly make it true or right. See what I mean?

 

[falisrm]

Uh, i was talking about accuracy and clarity about church statistics. And if you wanted to compare who is more accurate and clear about their statistics, the LDS church gets it hands down. They actually know every single person who was baptized into the church and knows every ordinance that has been done. Its still not perfect but thats what you get when everyone is a lay leader.

 

[nebula]

Uh, i was talking about accuracy and clarity about church statistics. And if you wanted to compare who is more accurate and clear about their statistics, the LDS church gets it hands down. They actually know every single person who was baptized into the church and knows every ordinance that has been done. Its still not perfect but thats what you get when everyone is a lay leader.

falis, That hardly deals with my OP. There are churches out there which are far more accurate than the LDS church with statistics, that hardly makes it more or less essentially true.

My original point was that the LDS church is so interested in image and growth that it will cover up and avoid talking about openly basic, core doctrines that they ought to reveal to potential converts for fear of embarrassment and losing numbers. It is for that reason I started this thread, to talk about basic, core doctrines about the nature of deity which the LDS church ought to be openly discussing itself.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Uh, i was talking about accuracy and clarity about church statistics. And if you wanted to compare who is more accurate and clear about their statistics, the LDS church gets it hands down. They actually know every single person who was baptized into the church and knows every ordinance that has been done. Its still not perfect but thats what you get when everyone is a lay leader.

Do those numbers include those that have died then some body baptized them by proxy into the LDS?

 

[falisrm]

I agree, there are only 2 churches that have more accurate statistics then Mormons do. The Seventh Day Adventists and the jehovah Witnesses. Although for Jehovah Witnesses, it doesn’t make much doctrinal sense because when you stop attending they take you off the baptismal records and then when you come back, what happens? You get baptised again. and its more solely based on hours spent proselysing and attendance rather then repentance or sin.

The 7th day do a good job. In fact they have an entire website and department that handles statistics. Again, if you look closely though, they still have a hard time gathering accurate data in many parts of the world. adventiststatistics.org/

In fact, if you ever look into it, almost all churches don’t report any kind of activity rates at all. The ELCA for example have 4.8 million baptised but only 2.3 confirmed. This has nothing to do with any kind of attendance.

The Southern Baptists are by far the worst. They claim 16 milliom members but they realize that whenever someone moves or switches congregations, they just create another record. So they estimate 60% of the members are duplicates.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I agree, there are only 2 churches that have more accurate statistics then Mormons do. The Seventh Day Adventists and the jehovah Witnesses. Although for Jehovah Witnesses, it doesn’t make much doctrinal sense because when you stop attending they take you off the baptismal records and then when you come back, what happens? You get baptised again. and its more solely based on hours spent proselysing and attendance rather then repentance or sin.

The 7th day do a good job. In fact they have an entire website and department that handles statistics. Again, if you look closely though, they still have a hard time gathering accurate data in many parts of the world. adventiststatistics.org/

I am counted by the Mormons as a member and will be until my 100th birthday, obviously, I am not a Mormon…lot’s of people like me who self-identify as something other than Mormon, who are still on your oh so accurate records and included in the 13.1mil.

 

[nebula]

Do those numbers include those that have died then some body baptized them by proxy into the LDS?

Scott, no, Mormons do not include by proxy baptisms, endowments and sealings as part of their official membership number.

 

[nebula]

I am counted by the Mormons as a member and will be until my 100th birthday, obviously, I am not a Mormon…lot’s of people like me who self-identify as something other than Mormon, who are still on your oh so accurate records.

Same with me Rebecca. You can write in to request to have your name removed if you want, but for me I don’t see the point.

 

[nebula]

I agree, there are only 2 churches that have more accurate statistics then Mormons do. The Seventh Day Adventists and the jehovah Witnesses. Although for Jehovah Witnesses, it doesn’t make much doctrinal sense because when you stop attending they take you off the baptismal records and then when you come back, what happens? You get baptised again. and its more solely based on hours spent proselysing and attendance rather then repentance or sin.

The 7th day do a good job. In fact they have an entire website and department that handles statistics. Again, if you look closely though, they still have a hard time gathering accurate data in many parts of the world. adventiststatistics.org/

In fact, if you ever look into it, almost all churches don’t report any kind of activity rates at all. The ELCA for example have 4.8 million baptised but only 2.3 confirmed. This has nothing to do with any kind of attendance.

The Southern Baptists are by far the worst. They claim 16 milliom members but they realize that whenever someone moves or switches congregations, they just create another record. So they estimate 60% of the members are duplicates.

fal,

So let me ask you, do you think it’s a problem that Mormonism preaches the existence of an unnumbered amount of gods, and that these gods have essentially the same nature as you do?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Same with me Rebecca. You can write in to request to have your name removed if you want, but for me I don’t see the point.

I contemplate it now and then, but I have too much to do and jumping through Mormon hoops is #999999 on my to-do list.

 

[falisrm]

So to mention any kind of problem with statistical data with Mormons is the same as saying the technology is just not their to accurately convey the size or growth in faith of any religion.

Well, like i said, the LDS church has some of the most advanced software for recording membership of any church i have seen. So it is one of the most accurate.

Basically every church has come to a concensus that its nearly impossible to get truely accurate statistical data but they post what they can for various reasons.

 

[RebeccaJ]

So to mention any kind of problem with statistical data with Mormons is the same as saying the technology is just not their to accurately convey the size or growth in faith of any religion.

Not if you are using accurate statistics, which the Church Office Building does not.