Mormons: A question about Jesus' life and Final Judgement

[nd_smc_02]

I just heard a few things about Mormonsim that I have not heard before. If you could simply answer the following questions for me:

1. Do Mormons believe that Jesus was married to 3 wives and had children?
2. Do Mormons believe that at final judgement one will go before God, Jesus, and Joseph Smith?

 

[Fa_Chan]

I just heard a few things about Mormonsim that I have not heard before. If you could simply answer the following questions for me:

1. Do Mormons believe that Jesus was married to 3 wives and had children?
2. Do Mormons believe that at final judgement one will go before God, Jesus, and Joseph Smith?

I’m not Mormon, but your questions made me curious. I did a few minutes of research and found the Orson Hyde, who was one of the Quorum of the 12 apostles taught your question #1 in the Journal of Discourses, volume 2 to which I will provide a link later in the post.

Orson became a disciple early on in the ministry and was deemed an apostle by Joseph Smith Jr. Approximately 20 years later he spoke against the saints and left the church. He repented later and asked to be brought back into the church (which he was). Instead of succeeding Brigham Young, Taylor was chosen instead. Young was critical of Hyde’s leaving the church.

According to different sources the Journal of Discourses were standard doctrine, but not infallible teaching. I suppose it’s similar to the Pope speaking “ex-cathedra” as opposed to simply giving a speech about his own views. I could be wrong, but that’s the similarity that comes to mind.

Here is the link:
journalofdiscourses.org/Vol_02/refJDvol2-19.html

Peace…

Fa Chan

 

[zerinus]

I’m not Mormon, but your questions made me curious. I did a few minutes of research and found the Orson Hyde, who was one of the Quorum of the 12 apostles taught your question #1 in the Journal of Discourses, volume 2 to which I will provide a link later in the post.

Orson became a disciple early on in the ministry and was deemed an apostle by Joseph Smith Jr. Approximately 20 years later he spoke against the saints and left the church. He repented later and asked to be brought back into the church (which he was). Instead of succeeding Brigham Young, Taylor was chosen instead. Young was critical of Hyde’s leaving the church.

According to different sources the Journal of Discourses were standard doctrine, but not infallible teaching. I suppose it’s similar to the Pope speaking “ex-cathedra” as opposed to simply giving a speech about his own views. I could be wrong, but that’s the similarity that comes to mind.

Here is the link:
journalofdiscourses.org/Vol_02/refJDvol2-19.html

Peace…

Fa Chan

Hi Chan,

I saw those questions too; but decided not to reply to them because I didn’t believe they deserved any; and I still don’t. However, out of respect for you, I will simply state that the answer to both those questions is No.

zerinus

 

[Fa_Chan]

Hi Chan,

I saw those questions too; but decided not to reply to them because I didn’t believe they deserved any; and I still don’t. However, out of respect for you, I will simply state that the answer to both those questions is No.

zerinus

Thank you for letting me know. Obviously you are a Mormon and know what you believe. So, I defer to your judgement. I found it an interesting subject. Even if that was true I don’t find it very odd. You are very kind. And I respect you and admire your faith. I’ve met only a few mormons in my life, but have always found them to be extremely kind and generous.

Peace…

Fa Chan

 

[nd_smc_02]

Hi Chan,

I saw those questions too; but decided not to reply to them because I didn’t believe they deserved any; and I still don’t. However, out of respect for you, I will simply state that the answer to both those questions is No.

zerinus

Zerinus…I was not trying to offend you or Mormons by asking those questions… I honestly heard what was stated previously and wanted clarification. So, even though you don’t think my fair questions deserve an answer, I thank you for your indirect answer of “no”.

Here is the source that I got my question from. A friend whose brother just converted to Mormonism sent me this link. I didn’t want to post it earlier because I thought it was inappropriate since I did not know the direct source that it came from. It did however stir up some questions for me.
youtube.com/watch?v=D7v_V8qSIIo

 

[nd_smc_02]

Also,
I am not saying that I believe everything that was in this video. That is why I wanted clarification. I do know that there is propaganda out their regarding most religions, so we all have to be really careful what we believe.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

According to different sources the Journal of Discourses were standard doctrine, but not infallible teaching.** I suppose it’s similar to the Pope speaking “ex-cathedra” as opposed to simply giving a speech about his own views.**

Fa Chan, a correction here.

If the Pope were speaking ex cathedra on matters of morals and faith, then it would be infallible. Doctrine and dogma are infallible teachings.

Disciplines, just as the Latin Ordination of male Priests only, might be a better analogy for you to use if the mormons think of their writings as not binding on their followers.

Pax Christi

 

[Allweather]

Hi Chan,

I saw those questions too; but decided not to reply to them because I didn’t believe they deserved any; and I still don’t. However, out of respect for you, I will simply state that the answer to both those questions is No.

zerinus

Well, I don’t like to hose down the love fest here, but about a month ago I watched two TV documentary specials about a polygamist Mormon sect down in Arizona. The featured polygamist, a frumpy math teacher with a 30-something AND a 20-something set of female servants called “wives” was captured on film, sitting upon his throne, eating pie, and discussing how very obvious it is that Jesus was married to three women and had children by them.

Zerinus has in the past made claims on Mormon “doctrine” that proved not to be the case when investigated among official Mormon sources. While it may in fact be true that “officially” the Mormons are running away from the polygamist Jesus, as they are running away from polygamy itself, at least from a public-relations point of view, it remains the case that there are Mormons out there who actually do believe in the polygamist Jesus.

 

[zerinus]

Well, I don’t like to hose down the love fest here, but about a month ago I watched two TV documentary specials about a polygamist Mormon sect down in Arizona. The featured polygamist, a frumpy math teacher with a 30-something AND a 20-something set of female servants called “wives” was captured on film, sitting upon his throne, eating pie, and discussing how very obvious it is that Jesus was married to three women and had children by them.

Zerinus has in the past made claims on Mormon “doctrine” that proved not to be the case when investigated among official Mormon sources. While it may in fact be true that “officially” the Mormons are running away from the polygamist Jesus, as they are running away from polygamy itself, at least from a public-relations point of view, it remains the case that there are Mormons out there who actually do believe in the polygamist Jesus.

Not true.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

Also,
I am not saying that I believe everything that was in this video. That is why I wanted clarification. I do know that there is propaganda out their regarding most religions, so we all have to be really careful what we believe.

If you are seriously interested to know what Mormons believe, I recommend you to go to this site: www.lds.org not that site

zerinus

 

[Fa_Chan]

Fa Chan, a correction here.

If the Pope were speaking ex cathedra on matters of morals and faith, then it would be infallible. Doctrine and dogma are infallible teachings.

Disciplines, just as the Latin Ordination of male Priests only, might be a better analogy for you to use if the mormons think of their writings as not binding on their followers.

Pax Christi

Yes, you’re right. The way I wrote my reply caused the misunderstanding. Your analogy is better and more accurate.

Peace…

Fa Chan

 

[Fa_Chan]

Well, I don’t like to hose down the love fest here,

It’s called respect and kindness. Something all of us could practice more in our daily lives.

Peace…

Fa Chan

 

[Allweather]

Not true.

zerinus

Ok, Z, I’ll bite. Which part of my post is “not true”?

The part about current day Mormons believing in a polygamous Jesus who fathered children by his many wives?

The part about the Arizona Mormons who were featured in recent documentaries about polygamous modern day Mormons?

The part about Zerinus not always getting it “right” with respect to what Mormons believe, or what the LDS Salt Lake City branch of Mormons “teaches”?

Be more specific. Or, is this the obtuse Zerinus online today?

 

[majick275]

It is easily proven from LDS sources that LDS prophets taught in general conference to the members as a whole in a way that they considered doctrine these very things. No subsequent LDS prophets have corrected or denounced any of these teachings. they just don’t talk about them. It was taught that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene, Mary and Martha at least and that he had children by them. It has also been taught and continues to be taught that at the final judgment God the father will delegate the judgment of the earth to Jesus who will in turn delegate the judgment to the prophets of each “dispensation”. That would mean Joseph Smith for the current one. Brigham Young taught that EVERYONE must pass Joseph Smith’s judgment to get into heaven. these things can be found in the journal of discourses, the seer, times and seasons, millennial star, doctrines of salvation, modern day prophets speak, documentary history of the church, mormon doctrine and many other sources. I invite all to research these things on their own and find whatever verifiable evidence they consider sufficient. I assure you it exists.

 

[Allweather]

these things can be found in the journal of discourses, the seer, times and seasons, millennial star, doctrines of salvation, modern day prophets speak, documentary history of the church, mormon doctrine and many other sources. I invite all to research these things on their own and find whatever verifiable evidence they consider sufficient. I assure you it exists.

Thanks, majick for the sources. As far as you know, are all of these things still in print? Where’s the best place to go to find stuff like this?

FYI I am trying to make myself better informed about Mormonism. There’s a lot to read! Currently I am reading Simon Southerton’s book, Losing A Lost Tribe, and have also started picking at Grant Palmer’s book, An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins. But, these and other’s can probably be classified as “anti” Mormon. Since Zerinus denies so much of what seems commonplace among actual living Mormons, I guess I also need to bone up on these LDS sources. Not a pleasant prospect.

 

[majick275]

actually all of the books you find at signature books

signaturebooks.com/alpha.htm

are written by mormons of the salt lake city variety. they just happen to be the ones who quit trying to hide or deny the truth and are hoping something will happen to explain why these seeming contradictions are okay. todd compton is a good example. you can find journal of discourses online the LDS don’t like that one getting out so it’s hard to find in print. (althoug they quote form it frequently in their current lesson manuals)you can easily get CD’s thoug of al the old LDS pubs including millenial star, times and seasons and the JoD. LDS bookstores still usually have doctrines of salvation, answers to gospel questions and most of cleon skausen’s books. They all have mormon doctrine. lds.org has all of the current lesson manuals. you may have to dig but you’ll find what you need.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

It is easily proven from LDS sources that LDS prophets taught in general conference to the members as a whole in a way that they considered doctrine these very things. No subsequent LDS prophets have corrected or denounced any of these teachings. they just don’t talk about them. It was taught that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene, Mary and Martha at least and that he had children by them. It has also been taught and continues to be taught that at the final judgment God the father will delegate the judgment of the earth to Jesus who will in turn delegate the judgment to the prophets of each “dispensation”. That would mean Joseph Smith for the current one. Brigham Young taught that EVERYONE must pass Joseph Smith’s judgment to get into heaven. these things can be found in the journal of discourses, the seer, times and seasons, millennial star, doctrines of salvation, modern day prophets speak, documentary history of the church, mormon doctrine and many other sources. I invite all to research these things on their own and find whatever verifiable evidence they consider sufficient. I assure you it exists.

Zerinus reading Majick’s post: :banghead:

Amazing how silence from those still swirling about in mormonism is deafening!

Pax Christi