Mormons and the Bible

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Snow said:
Personally, I believe God is all-powerful and doesn’t require perfect men and perfect institutions to achieve his aims.

… and to your point above, there’s no proof that the RCC Bible contains all the books that God thinks it ought to contain.
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But here is the point. The Rcc never claimed the bible had all of the teachings of Christ. As a matter of fact we know it does not. We have oral and tradition and written scripture.

And how can you proclaim that God does not require a perfect institution to achieve his claims. What do you consider the Catholic Church it is the living Christ. Jesus and his Church cannot be separated. How makes you think you can separate them when Christ himself said they are one.
 
AshleyBelle said:
Ok… I don’t have quite as much time today to stay around and go in the ussual circles… but there’s something about this statement that stood out to me.

You use the phrase “direct descendent of the ancient church.” But that is not what we believe. We believe the Catholic church IS the ancient church…not a descendent of it. We believe the Catholic church IS the church which was founded by Christ 2000 years ago. It has not “changed” or “descended” from anything… it simply IS. Now you may say “but it doesn’t look like the ancient church!” Which in some regards is true… The is because the “ancient” church was the seed planted by Christ…and it has continued to grow and blossom through the centuries:)
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Okay. I accept the correction. That’s what you believe.
You also want to claim that the church was “apostate” from practically the beginning??? Christ Himself promised even the gates of the netherworld would never prevail against His church. He promised Peter the authority over the church, and the curch was BUILT on the foundation of Christ, the apostles, and the prophets. If you try to claim it was apostate shortly post-ressurection, then you are saying that Christ didn’t leave us with a Church…he left us with a mess!
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The Church is the body of Christ. You cannot claim that it failed, unless you want to deny the POWER of Christ.
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I accept/believe the apostasy. I do not believe the gates of hell have prevailed. The Church is here today, thriving, doing God’s will. Even when there was an “apostasy” there were good men, doing good, following - the best they could - God’s will.
 
rinnie said:
But here is the point. The Rcc never claimed the bible had all of the teachings of Christ. As a matter of fact we know it does not. We have oral and tradition and written scripture.
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The discussion was about the Bible - not tradition.
And how can you proclaim that God does not require a perfect institution to achieve his claims. What do you consider the Catholic Church it is the living Christ. Jesus and his Church cannot be separated. How makes you think you can separate them when Christ himself said they are one.
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Christ has never said - at least not publicly on the record - that He and the Catholic Church are one.

That’s simply what YOU believe.
 
Snow said:
The discussion was about the Bible - not tradition.

Christ has never said - at least not publicly on the record - that He and the Catholic Church are one.

That’s simply what YOU believe.
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Oh Yes he did. Why did he ask Saul Saul why are you persecuting me. Who was Saul Persecuting the Catholic Church. Saul asked Lord who are you, and he answered Jesus. How could Saul be persecuting Jesus if him and the Church were not the same Person. The Catholic CHurch is the living presense of Christ until he comes again in glory. Please go read it for yourself.
 
Ok, Peter is the first Pope the Catholic Church. Then Linus then… Till Pope Benidict XVI. Now you may argue that claim and say it never happened but why would anyone make this up. If this great apostasy did occur, its the greatest farce of all time. The book of Mormon is anti mormon. Yes, i said it and now ill tell you why. catholic.com/library/problems_with_the_book_of_mormon.asp

Ok, so you read that and now you realized you want to become Catholic. Go to your local church and sign up for RCIA
 
Snow said:
Okay. I accept the correction. That’s what you believe.

I accept/believe the apostasy. I do not believe the gates of hell have prevailed. The Church is here today, thriving, doing God’s will. Even when there was an “apostasy” there were good men, doing good, following - the best they could - God’s will.
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This thread delt with the apostasy. I never saw an answer to the question perhaps you have one
 
Mormons tend to study the bible quite intensely. For example, last year the lds were studying the new testament in sunday school. This year the lds are studying the book of mormon in their sunday schools. Previously, the lds also studied the old testament quite intensely. The lds are very educated in the scriptures. They are also encouraged to read the scriptures daily and have a personal study time for bible study.

In this regard, catholics cannot match the lds in personal scripture study. And so, mormons have a very close relationship with the king james version of the bible.
 
rinnie said:
Oh Yes he did. Why did he ask Saul Saul why are you persecuting me. Who was Saul Persecuting the Catholic Church. Saul asked Lord who are you, and he answered Jesus. How could Saul be persecuting Jesus if him and the Church were not the same Person. The Catholic CHurch is the living presense of Christ until he comes again in glory. Please go read it for yourself.
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There was no catholic church at the time of Paul. Now there was a church but it wasn’t called ‘catholic’.
 
why_me said:
There was no catholic church at the time of Paul. Now there was a church but it wasn’t called ‘catholic’.
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Are you joking? If so im laugh really really really hard. The Catholic Church was founded my Peter and Saul (Paul) was persecuting that Church so when Paul converted he what, started his own sect? No, he joined Peter which is evident in the pages of the Bible and history. So, why would Jesus send the Apostle AND the disciples the Holy Spirit and give Peter the keys of Heaven and His Church if He was just going to take it back… If you haven’t noticed, God normally doesn’t take things. Since some Disciples were present at Pentecost and they too were given the gifts of the Holy Spirit wouldn’t they have to die off for the “Great Apostasy” to occur? He gives gives gives, especially in the New Testament. Lets apply Occam’s Razor here. You say God gave some people His priesthood but then took it away and gave it to a man with questionable morals who then used golden tablets and majic glasses to interpret them but did a bad job at it and changes had to be made about everything from grammar to your stance on blacks. Also you say a great civilization was in the Americas but there evidence is just waiting to be found but your church has spent millions and yet there is no such evidence. Or on my side, God gave His priesthood and didn’t take it away and there is one true church, the Catholic Church.

Ok, that is very clear so i propose a new question. Why do people believe this stuff???
 
why_me said:
There was no catholic church at the time of Paul. Now there was a church but it wasn’t called ‘catholic’.
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Oh my, Then could you explain to me what Church Jesus started that Saul was persecuting? Because I was always taught that Jesus started the first CHURCH. Maybe you could help me here?
 
dr23flavors said:
Are you joking?.. Lets apply Occam’s Razor here. You say God gave some people His priesthood but then took it away and gave it to a man with questionable morals who then used golden tablets and majic glasses to interpret them but did a bad job at it and changes had to be made about everything from grammar to your stance on blacks. Also you say a great civilization was in the Americas but there evidence is just waiting to be found but your church has spent millions and yet there is no such evidence. Or on my side, God gave His priesthood and didn’t take it away and there is one true church, the Catholic Church.

Ok, that is very clear so i propose a new question. Why do people believe this stuff???
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I would suggest that they believe it because it justifies their sins. So long as they want to justify the sins of pride, racism, bigotry, judgmental attitudes, witchcraft, lies… They will continue to believe what they believe. Our only recourse is to give people the appropriate immunization against that illness, and bust em when they break laws or lay themselves open to civil lawsuits.
 
Jerusha said:
I would suggest that they believe it because it justifies their sins. So long as they want to justify the sins of pride, racism, bigotry, judgmental attitudes, witchcraft, lies… They will continue to believe what they believe. Our only recourse is to give people the appropriate immunization against that illness, and bust em when they break laws or lay themselves open to civil lawsuits.
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That is a very interesting point, i never thought of it that way. I think it is because they feel that because their religion is so different from the rest of Christianity it must be right. I am a person who feels science should back up Religion, always no matter what because God created both. if He created both therefore they should not disagree but back to my point. If mormons want to know the truth about God just look at the world around them. No other religion is supported more by nature than the Catholic Church. God wants us to take things on faith but there has to be some physical evidence. The Bible’s teaching can be backed up, except of course the books that are “fiction” or parables like Genesis. the book of mormon there is no physical evidence, it even talks about bees in the americas before they were introduced by foreign settlers. God would not make a mistake like that, or any mistake
 
why_me said:
Mormons tend to study the bible quite intensely. For example, last year the lds were studying the new testament in sunday school. This year the lds are studying the book of mormon in their sunday schools. Previously, the lds also studied the old testament quite intensely. The lds are very educated in the scriptures. They are also encouraged to read the scriptures daily and have a personal study time for bible study.

In this regard, catholics cannot match the lds in personal scripture study. And so, mormons have a very close relationship with the king james version of the bible.
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They are being taught a false interpretation based on false doctrines and false teachings, making their “studying” a vain endeavor.
 
why_me said:
Mormons tend to study the bible quite intensely. For example, last year the lds were studying the new testament in sunday school. This year the lds are studying the book of mormon in their sunday schools. Previously, the lds also studied the old testament quite intensely. The lds are very educated in the scriptures. They are also encouraged to read the scriptures daily and have a personal study time for bible study.

In this regard, catholics cannot match the lds in personal scripture study. And so, mormons have a very close relationship with the king james version of the bible.
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Too bad the kjv is a poor translation compared to newer ones. It’s also harder to understand and many Mormons I know have struggled with it. When no one knows theology, Mormon sunday school can quickly become the blind leading the blind (and unfortuantely so, this is one of those bad side affects of refusing to have a paid clergy).
 
why_me said:
There was no catholic church at the time of Paul. Now there was a church but it wasn’t called ‘catholic’.
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“Catholic” simply means ‘universal’ so application of the word to the churches that Paul was founding is appropriate- and even Protestants would agree.
 
rinnie said:
Oh Yes he did. Why did he ask Saul Saul why are you persecuting me. Who was Saul Persecuting the Catholic Church. Saul asked Lord who are you, and he answered Jesus. How could Saul be persecuting Jesus if him and the Church were not the same Person. The Catholic CHurch is the living presense of Christ until he comes again in glory. Please go read it for yourself.
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Ha, ha.

There was no Catholic Church in the days of Saul. What Christ actually said or didn’t say is unknown. All we know is what the biblical author claimed was said. Christ Himself is silent on the matter.
 
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