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Snow
Guest
I guess you are admitting that Catholic beliefs can and do change, but not Catholic dogma. Well - that’s progress I guess.
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alanjeddy
Guest
Oh my are we defensive. How can you engage in apologetic debate and be so ignorant of your own faith. Is that how you defend it by denying it? My wife was a mormon (Thank God she now is in RCIA) and I probably know the faith as well as you. Your missionaries had more that they could bargain for.Before I answer any of your questions, address your false and invented claim. You made it up. You’ve tried to change the subject.
Either post your proof or admit deceit or ignorance, then I’ll answer your questions.
Do a little research and you will discover that in 1890 polygamy was renounced, over Utah statehood issues. I don’t lie and God is my witness.
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rinnie
Guest
It is not that God was pleased or allowed this. this tells it pure and simple.1 Kings 15:5
God gave plural wives to David. Why would God cause his David to be an adulterer - in your view?
Deut 17.17 Gods commands to kings was neither shall he multiply wives for himself lest his heart turn away.
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Snow
Guest
I challenge you to find a single thing that I have said that demonstrates that I am ignorant of my own faith.Oh my are we defensive. How can you engage in apologetic debate and be so ignorant of your own faith. Is that how you defend it by denying it?
That is a false charge. It is dishonest. You just made it up.
Prediction: you won’t provide any evidence whatsoever to show that I am ignorant of my own faith.
My wife was a mormon (Thank God she now is in RCIA) and I probably know the faith as well as you. Your missionaries had more that they could bargain for.
You don’t lie?Do a little research and you will discover that in 1890 polygamy was renounced, over Utah statehood issues. I don’t lie and God is my witness.
Let me remind you of your claim: “So when Utah was denied statehood because of the very issue of polygamy SUDDENLY one of your seers had a vision that renounced polygamy (how convienent)”
That’s what you said. You have been challenge now 5 or 6 times to prove it. Obviously you cannot because you just made it up. It is either a lie - deliberate deceit, or you just don’t know but are so reckless with your accusations that accuracy and truth are unimportant to you.
Prediction: you will again fail to defend/prove your false claim.
Now - stop pestering me with childish taunts. Prove your claims or go away.
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alanjeddy
Guest
Snow what is God’s First Commandent? You will love thy God.
You will not have false gods before me. Now do you want to talk about eternal progression with me? Also how you deny that Jesus is not the Lord of the universe? Which one of these would you like to engage in apologetics with me? I have an idea , lets talk about all of these points? What do you say?
You will not have false gods before me. Now do you want to talk about eternal progression with me? Also how you deny that Jesus is not the Lord of the universe? Which one of these would you like to engage in apologetics with me? I have an idea , lets talk about all of these points? What do you say?
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Snow
Guest
Stop avoiding the question. Why did God Himself give David multiple wives if it didn’t please God? Why would God do something he did not allow?It is not that God was pleased or allowed this. this tells it pure and simple.
Deut 17.17 Gods commands to kings was neither shall he multiply wives for himself lest his heart turn away.
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Snow
Guest
Address your false claims or prove them.Snow what is God’s First Commandent? You will love thy God.
You will not have false gods before me. Now do you want to talk about eternal progression with me? Also how you deny the Jesus is not the Lord of the universe? Which one of these would you like to engagr e in apologetics with me? i HAVE AN IDEA LETS DEBATE ALL OF THESE HERETICAL MORMON BELIEFS.
Stop changing the subject.
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alanjeddy
Guest
That’s your best answer? Wow you really know how to defend your heretical faith.Address your false claims or prove them.
Stop changing the subject.
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alanjeddy
Guest
Notice how snow is the last mormon on the resevation. where are all the others? You are an embarassment to your faith.
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Snow
Guest
Stop changing the subject.That’s your best answer? Wow you really know how to defend your heretical faith.
You made a false claim. You have been challenged to prove it about 7 times now.
You can’t prove it because you fabricated it.
You also claimed that I am ignorant about my faith. You fabricated that as well and cannot find a single thing that I have said that is factually untrue.
I challenge you to prove your claims
Prediction: Can’t and won’t.
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alanjeddy
Guest
I speak the truth I chalenge you to disprove what I am saying. You can’t because I am right. I challenge you. I am waiting…Stop changing the subject.
You made a false claim. You have been challenged to prove it about 7 times now.
You can’t prove it because you fabricated it.
You also claimed that I am ignorant about my faith. You fabricated that as well and cannot find a single thing that I have said that is factually untrue.
I challenge you to prove your claims
Prediction: Can’t and won’t.
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ronald_g_w
Guest
round&round&roundPlease show me where it says David did right! And why do you swell on this when it is plain as day that God sent Jesus to explain to us everything and he made it perfectly CLEAR in the NT that is is plain wrong and a sin! What do you disguard the NT completely or what?
I guess one just needs to have a testimony of the reality of living prophets who can say, “thus sayeth the Lord” and then gain a personal witness of that which He has stated.
sorry for butting in
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alanjeddy
Guest
Ronald will you please explain to Snow how Utah was denied statehood because of the Polygamy issue and how in 1890 your church renounced polygamy so that Utah would gain statehood.round&round&round
I guess one just needs to have a testimony of the reality of living prophets who can say, “thus sayeth the Lord” and they gain a personal witness of that which He has stated.
sorry for butting in
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alanjeddy
Guest
Snow go on the internet and look it up. I have never met a mormon who was as ill informed as you are. I feel embarrased for you.
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ronald_g_w
Guest
Snow knows the answer no need.Ronald will you please explain to Snow how Utah was denied statehood because of the Polygamy issue and how in 1890 your church renounced polygamy so that Utah would gain statehood.
Why dont you answer his questions ?
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juno24
Guest
No. You said the Church now teaches that unbaptised babies WILL enter Heaven. I said that is not correct. The Church teaches that we are to leave them to God’s mercy, and we can have hope that He MAY have a way to save them. We simply don’t know what happens those who are not baptized through no fault of their own.Come on you are saying what I said. I am a conservative Catholic steeped in tradition. Our church as you rightly said cannot enter fully into God’s mercy. Our finite minds can never assume that we can fully comprehend the ocean of mercy that defines one small , unfathomable, dimension of God’s omnipotence.
This is not a case of semantics. If it were a certainty that unbaptized babies were admitted to Heaven, it would not be necessary to baptize them as soon as possible. Precisely because there is no certainty with regards to what happens to them, it is critical that we baptize our children as soon as possible after birth.
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alanjeddy
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Judy that is the one thing that will end the uncertainty of the disposition of infant souls. But isn’t it hard to beliveve that God’s infinite ocean of mercy, and His devine justice, in the innocent life of a child, could only rule in favor of this innocent soul. Do you really think that this same God would deprive the countless innocent souls of babies, who have been aborted, from His beatific vision simply because they were murdered and susequently not baptised? God is love and mercy but there is another component, devine justice.No. You said the Church now teaches that unbaptised babies WILL enter Heaven. I said that is not correct. The Church teaches that we are to leave them to God’s mercy, and we can have hope that He MAY have a way to save them. We simply don’t know what happens those who are not baptized through no fault of their own.
This is not a case of semantics. If it were a certainty that unbaptized babies were admitted to Heaven, it would not be necessary to baptize them as soon as possible. Precisely because there is no certainty with regards to what happens to them, it is critical that we baptize our children as soon as possible after birth.
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alanjeddy
Guest
Wow do all mormons defend their faith like you do? You never once proved your case because you can’t. I win you lose end of story goodbye.I challenge you to find a single thing that I have said that demonstrates that I am ignorant of my own faith.
That is a false charge. It is dishonest. You just made it up.
Prediction: you won’t provide any evidence whatsoever to show that I am ignorant of my own faith.
You don’t lie?
Let me remind you of your claim: “So when Utah was denied statehood because of the very issue of polygamy SUDDENLY one of your seers had a vision that renounced polygamy (how convienent)”
That’s what you said. You have been challenge now 5 or 6 times to prove it. Obviously you cannot because you just made it up. It is either a lie - deliberate deceit, or you just don’t know but are so reckless with your accusations that accuracy and truth are unimportant to you.
Prediction: you will again fail to defend/prove your false claim.
Now - stop pestering me with childish taunts. Prove your claims or go away.
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alanjeddy
Guest
Snow go into the internet and pose the question: Why was Utah denied statehood for 50 years?
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juno24
Guest
You are absolutely right that baptism is the one thing that will end the uncertainty. And yes, I do hope that God’s mercy will allow for unbaptised babies to enter Heaven, however I cannot presume that it is so just because I want it to be. We cannot begin to fully understand God’s mercy or His justice, and since we cannot, we must not presume to know what has not been revealed to us. At this point in time, I must content myself with the knowledge that, even though I cannot understand it, God ultimately knows what He is doing and why He is doing it.Judy that is the one thing that will end the uncertainty of the disposition of infant souls. But isn’t it hard to beliveve that God’s infinite ocean of mercy, and His devine justice, in the innocent life of a child, could only rule in favor of this innocent soul. Do you really think that this same God would deprive the countless innocent souls of babies, who have been aborted, from His beatific vision simply because they were murdered and susequently not baptised? God is love and mercy but there is another component, devine justice.
I will bow out now, because I don’t want to further derail this thread.
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