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why_me
Guest
I suppose that you pay a full tithe. I have no idea what the questions are these days but you do seem like an unbeliever to me, especially in the JS story. But…if you are okay with it, I am okay with it. No problem.
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ibkc
Guest
When some of us eeeeeevil Catholics were castigating you for your utter disrespect of both sacraments, LaMar came to your defense as eloquently as he was able. And now you happily throw it right back into his face. You’re a real piece of work.Ahhhh…but I don’t have a temple recommend. And that makes a lot of difference.
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LaMar
Guest
I pay what I define as a full tithe. By that I mean I take a tenth of my net income and spread it around to benefit society. Not all of it goes to the church.
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zerinus
Guest
That means that you are totally dishonest about how you pay your tithing, just as you are about all the other questions in the interview. Tithing is very clearly defined in the Church. It means giving one tenth of your income to the Church, not to the “benefit society”. If you want to give money to the “benefit” society as well, and can afford to do so, so much the better. You are very much encouraged to do so. But that does not count towards your tithing. Your tithing is what goes to the Church (as tithing), not to the “benefit society”.I pay what I define as a full tithe. By that I mean I take a tenth of my net income and spread it around to benefit society. Not all of it goes to the church.
zerinus
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majick275
Guest
actually that isn’t correct. LDS tithing is 10% of your “increase”. members define that according to their conscience and priesthood leaders don’t usually (these days at least) ask anything other than are you a full tithe payer. La Mar is correct in stating that TR interviewers are instructed not to deviate from the scripted questions and much is then left to the individuals interpretation. the handbook allows for deeper questions or clarification if there is reason to believe that there is a problem but now we get into probable cause. the LDS church doesn’t want to hemorrhage anymore members or money than it has to and nowadays is reluctant to deny recommends or ex people as long as they don’t create problems. Once you go through the temple you will understand why so few members WANT temple recommends much less have them and then you can understand why many bishoprics allow such creative interpretation of the questions.
I would compare this with Catholics allowing folks to take communion unless you KNOW they shouldn’t and even then it’s usually handled quietly.
I would compare this with Catholics allowing folks to take communion unless you KNOW they shouldn’t and even then it’s usually handled quietly.
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zerinus
Guest
Wrong! Tithing is that which you pay*** to the Church,*** not to your local charity. If you want to pay your local charity too, that is great; you are very much encouraged to. But that does not count towards your tithing.
zerinus
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majick275
Guest
you misunderstand what I said. i was not referring to who you pay it to but rather how much you pay. if La Mar considers the amount he pays to the LD church to be 10% of his increase then he can say he is a full tithepayer. if you read the OT instructions on tithing (apropos since LDS tend to default to malachi on this subject) then it gets even more subject to personal belief since one can make a case that the tithes are to be used for ones celebration of thanksgiving (Deuteronomy 12)
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zerinus
Guest
That is not what he says he does. He says he spreads his tithing to the “benefit society,” and then declares it to his bishop as his tithing to the Church. That is not tithing.
zerinus
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LaMar
Guest
Hey Majick,
That’s correct. When pressed, bishops will explain that “a full tithe” is what the payor considers to be a full tithe. The Mormon Church is currently building a 1 billion dollar shopping center and condo complex in Salt Lake City, with tithing monies, so I don’t consider them to be short on cash.
Re: your earlier message, I think you’re partly right about the fact that it’s motivated by self-preservation. I’d also like to think that some of the brethren become tolerant once they get to wander around in the holy of holies and notice the lack of a physical God to chat with. They know it’s not a literal reality, just like all those Jesuit intellectuals.
If Catholics or Mormons want to see the end result of being totally honest about religion, they can take a gander at what happened to the RLDS-CoC. If the Catholic Church or the LDS Church ever overtly “de-mythologizes”, half the members will probably leave immediately and go join the baptists or pentecostals. Therein lies the tightrope our organizations walk.
That’s correct. When pressed, bishops will explain that “a full tithe” is what the payor considers to be a full tithe. The Mormon Church is currently building a 1 billion dollar shopping center and condo complex in Salt Lake City, with tithing monies, so I don’t consider them to be short on cash.
Re: your earlier message, I think you’re partly right about the fact that it’s motivated by self-preservation. I’d also like to think that some of the brethren become tolerant once they get to wander around in the holy of holies and notice the lack of a physical God to chat with. They know it’s not a literal reality, just like all those Jesuit intellectuals.
If Catholics or Mormons want to see the end result of being totally honest about religion, they can take a gander at what happened to the RLDS-CoC. If the Catholic Church or the LDS Church ever overtly “de-mythologizes”, half the members will probably leave immediately and go join the baptists or pentecostals. Therein lies the tightrope our organizations walk.
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zerinus
Guest
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Jerusha
Guest
The geographical cure only works when one has shed the negative aspects of LDS culture. It takes time-- and every one does it differently.I don’t know if I understand this paragraph. Are you saying that Mormons (of the true-believer variety) instinctively become hysterical whenever their own faith is examined, even in passing? If so, then I agree with you.
Most definitely.
I don’t understand the whole “recovery from LDS Inc.” movement. It seems like it just makes people more and more upset. Of course, if I lived in rural Utah it might come in handy, occasionally, to meet with other dissidents and vent my spleen, but the whole thing looks like a huge angst fest and is very negative.
Agreed. When people need social interaction with like-minded people, the internet is a good place to meet with them, and connect for in-person learning experiences. It is not as negative as it used to be. There is a real concern in LDS-dominated areas that the Morg will punish the speaker of any comments that can be construed as anti-Mormon.
Being angry at the LDS church doesn’t hurt the LDS church. It simply wastes the time of the perpetual victim.
But claiming perpetual victimhood is part and parcel of LDS culture. They are just re-naming the perpetrator.My work with them has focused on looking at Mormonism from the Native perspective, exposing the racism that so permeates LDS culture (no matter how much they disown it, they still carry LDS culture with them). The FLDS issue, and the children, is certainly getting them out of this obsession with their own personal injuries.
The people who are so emotional would do a much better job if they weedled their ways into teaching gospel doctrine at the ward level and started sprinkling gems of historical truth into their lessons. That is the reason why I appreciate NOM’s. If all the open-minded intellectuals flee, what is left? Proto-Nazi TBM’s, which could morph into something even more malignant.
If that’s too much trouble (and I don’t blame them for not wanting to) the best thing to do is move on with your life and enjoy it. We only get one…
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