I hope I wasn’t offensive. I’m sure the LDS church is not concerned with the Catholic viewpoint. It was just something new to me and having been raised Protestant and now converting, I’ve only ever known the concept of the Trinity. Just wondered where LDS was coming from and what they believe. I appreciate your answer.
I just find similarity in the Latter-Day Saint view of baptism and the Catholic view of the Eucharist.i doubt you really knew your faith or were ever presented with the splendor of truth which subsits in the catholic church. learn your church history. hopefully, then you’ll see the dubious origins of mormonism.
Long before the Catholic Church decided not to recognize “Mormon baptism,” the LDS Church did not acknowledge their baptism! In fact, the LDS Church has never acknowledged, from the day it was organized until now, anybody else’s baptism other than its own. This is because we believe that baptism is something that needs to be performed by proper priesthood authority before it can be considered valid in the sight of God, and traditional Christianity has apostatized and no longer possesses that priesthood authority. The LDS Church is restoration of the original church of Christ on earth, and therefore is the only church that possesses the right authority to baptize. Nobody else dies. My guess is that the Catholic Church’s decision not to recognize LDS baptisms was a retaliation to the longstanding LDS practice of not recognizing Catholic baptisms. If they were to recognize LDS baptisms, they would have to acknowledge the authority under which it is performed; and that would be tantamount to negating their own baptism. Since you are a Catholic, perhaps you can do a bit of research for me. Can you find out for me when the decision was made by the Catholic Church not to recognize LDS baptisms, and by whom that decision was made, and whether it was ratified by the Pope? The Catholic Church has traditionally accepted baptisms of all other Churches. Even an atheist can perform a valid baptism for the Catholic Church in an emergence. So it is a bit odd that they should not accept Mormon baptisms. Such a decision would have had to be made at a high level, and therefore there must be some documentary evidence for it, and the date when it was made, and by whom. Our position has been consistent. We have never recognized anybody’s baptism from the beginning, and still don’t. I hope that the position of the Catholic Church in this regard has been equally consistent.
That depends a lot on what you mean by the Trinity. If you can give me a clear definition of your idea of Trinity, then I can tell you whether we believe in it or not. We certainly do believe in the Trinity; but the Trinity that we believe in is the Trinity of the Bible, not the incomprehensible monstrosity that post-apostate Christendom has invented in the name of the Trinity—the three in one and one in three! We believe that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are three distinct and separate personages, just as the Bible says they are; and we baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
We believe Him to be what the Bible says He is—the Son of God, and a divine being.
You would be ill advised to try to learn about Mormonism from a Catholic or a Protestant. They are unlikely to be impartial observers. If you want to find out the truth about Mormonism, I suggest you try to find that out from a well informed Mormon.
I read this article, too, awhile back. I appreciate Newhouse’s polite tone. However he is most definitely biased as to the question he is addressing of whether Mormons are Christian or not. He also makes a number of errors and relies way too much on the Ostling’s *Mormon America, IMHO. *He doesn’t interact with any of the LDS scholars addressing the question like Dr. Stephen Robinson (scroll down), or Dr. Peterson and Ricks.
I read this article, too, awhile back. I appreciate Newhouse’s polite tone. However he is most definitely biased as to the question he is addressing of whether Mormons are Christian or not. He also makes a number of errors and relies way too much on the Ostling’s *Mormon America, IMHO. *He doesn’t interact with any of the LDS scholars addressing the question like Dr. Stephen Robinson (scroll down), or Dr. Peterson and Ricks.
I believe it was sometime during the year 2000. It was presented by then Cardinal Ratzinger and did in fact come form the Pope. For many years the LDS baptism was considered “dubious” and many former LDS converts were conditionally baptized as a result. Finally there was sufficient understanding of just what the LDS view on the nature of God was to render the correct decision on LDs baptisms. This is partly due to the fact that the LDS position on the Trinity has changed over time and LDS acriptures still appear to contradict themselves on this. There are still many refernces to the Father, Son and Holy Ghost being one God in the BoM and the D&C. While modern LDS state that they are one in “purpose” these scriptures neglect to make that distinction. The baptismal prayer is the only formal LDS prayer that is done in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Their legacy of two Gods (lectures on faith) consisting of just the Father and Son seems to have set a very subordinationalist tone in LDS doctrine. All other prayers in the LDS church are only to the Father and always in the name of Jesus Christ.
see above
This is the other part of LDS doctrine that negates their baptism in the eyes of the Catholic Church. LDS doctrine is very clear that we are ALL literal offspring of God. (So is Satan) Jesus role as savior was put to a vote in the pre-existence. His divinity is the result of his exaltation and is achievable by all LDS. (according to their doctrine) While he has a special place in LDS doctrine as the one chosen to atone for all sin and thus enabled exaltation for the rest of us he si not a different order of being than us. neither is God the Father. LDS doctrine teaches that God is an exalted man and that we can become exalted jut like him. That we are embryonic Deities.
Here is what I have from one of my old threads:I found this, scriptures.lds.org/gsg/gdgdhd
Thank you for the research. You have been sloppy again in your posts, as usual, and mixed up my quotes with your own. The second part of the above passage is a quote from me, not from you. But your research has proved what I had assumed.
Very interesting. Thank you for your research. I note that no “theological explanation” was given for it though. It looks like at the “Pontificate level,” the “Trinity” issue had nothing to do with the decision. Very interesting indeed!
Amgid, I always have a good laugh when I read your posts because this is just one more in a long line of rediculous comments you have made. Why in the world would an atheist, a Buddhist monk, or a Shinto priest attempt to perform a Christian baptism? This is nothing more than an inflammatory remark meant to anger Catholics.
They don’t believe in any of those things so this statement is completely pointless, other than for some kind of shock value.
That is not true. There are other baptisms the Catholic Church does not accept. I don’t know which ones they are offhand but if you want to know look it up yourself on the internet.
But what that Trinitarian forumula means within Mormonism certainly has changed, which is why the Catholic Church doesn’t currently accept LDS baptism.
Strictly your opinion. I’m sure you have spend a lot of time researching the documents of the early Christian church to find out what they believed about God, probably from an LDS source that certainly wouldn’t be biased as to which early church writings they would include and which they would exclude.
Actually no. The Catholic Church does accept baptisms of other Christian religions. That in no way says that the church accepts the authority of their ministers, none of whom hold a legitimate priesthood. So your point here is completely wrong.
I’m afraid you would have to be an expert on Catholic history to make such a statement, and I don’t think you are one. This is another of your sweeping statements that’s based merely on your own opinion.
The Catholic view is that Jesus Christ truly did resurrect and ascend into heaven. Therefore, He is very much alive this moment. He is most present during the Eucharist, that which we call the Real Presence. For that reason, and that reason alone, a Catholic would not be able to baptize or pray as you say in His Name alone. We must pray with and in Him. We must address Him. For He is not dead but alive. The same with the Holy Spirit. If LDS baptism is as you say it is, it could never be accepted by the Catholic Church. For Christ is alive and present, not dead.Otherwise, if He was dead, it would be pointless rather to pray to Him or to pray in His Name, either way.As Catholics, we attempt to avoid the pointless.
You are wasting your time I am afraid, and beating about the bush, and trying to divert attention from the real issue. The real issue is that your Pontiff has not declared the real reason for his decision, and I suggest that you don’t try to put words in his mouth. If he is willing to tell us the real reason, why don’t you ask him? Then we will all be enlightened. If not, then my explanation is a lot more plausible than yours.