Mormons attend ecumenical service with Pope Benedict XVI

[Lehl]

That’s the part that interests me. This does not seem to have been publicized among the Mormon faithful. I do see a link from the Deseret News web edition to the Catholic News Service article. I don’t know what they think they gained–they went to a lecture of the Catholic Pope and heard the Catholic Pope declare the belief in the Trinity as the basis of Christian unity!

What also interests me is the way the Mormons are spinning the very reason for their attendance.

According to Deseret News:

A story from the Catholic News Service reports from behind-the-scenes how Elders M. Russell Ballard and Quentin L. Cook were invited to participate in a meeting with Pope Benedict XVI on Friday.

So instead of the LDS inviting themselves to the papal prayer service, they are giving the Mormon faithful the impression that they simply accepted an invitiation.

Just to be polite, I’m sure.

 

[zerinus]

whyme,did you by any chance read the ENTIRE ARTICLE? such as the part about baptisms?

Yes I did. What about “the part about baptism”?

zerinus

 

[J_C]

Yes I did. What about “the part about baptism”?

zerinus

Hi, Z. This part:

***But then-Bishop George H. Neiderauer, who headed the Salt Lake City Diocese at that time, said the Vatican decision “should not be understood as either judging or measuring a spiritual relationship between Jesus Christ and the LDS church.”

“As we know, the LDS church baptizes all its new members who were previously baptized in any other church,” said Bishop Neiderauer, who is now archbishop of San Francisco. “That practice indicated that the LDS church regards its own baptism as accomplishing something which is substantially different from that of all other baptismal rites.”

The Vatican ruling, he said, “indicates that the Catholic Church also recognizes that LDS baptism is substantially different from Roman Catholic baptism.”***

the way whyme was glowing, you’da thought a merger is on the horizon. I’m not sure he reads very carefully. i’m half blind but can still see the obivous.

 

[J_C]

What also interests me is the way the Mormons are spinning the very reason for their attendance.

According to Deseret News:

So instead of the LDS inviting themselves to the papal prayer service, they are giving the Mormon faithful the impression that they simply accepted an invitiation.

Just to be polite, I’m sure.

here is an excerpt from the article:

In an interview with Catholic News Service and other reporters before the start of the ecumenical prayer service at St. Joseph’s Church in New York April 18, Father James Massa, executive director of the U.S. bishops’ Secretariat of Ecumenical and Interrreligious Affairs, said that during a coffee break at a recent meeting a representative of the Latter-day Saints asked him if there was any possibility of their participation in the papal visit.

so according to this source, it was a contact initiated by the mormen themselves. They solicited the invitation, which was kindly offered in response.

 

[Lehl]

the way whyme was glowing, you’da thought a merger is on the horizon.

 

[Jerusha]

I think they are going to have to move towards orthodoxy to keep their own people. Their members are getting too educated to continue to accept the confusion that is Mormonism. They have a very high attrition rate. I think they realize they may at the very least become closer to evangelicalism to survive.

Right. Early LDS were usually uneducated. Now that they are getting edumaketed they are realizing how many discrepancies there are between their book and other teachings and reality. They have only two choices. Adapt or die out. And the Catholic Church has some of the information that will allow them to adapt.:bowdown2:

 

[zerinus]

Why Me,

Why then, have the LDS refused to comment on their participation in this papal prayer service and why is there no mention on lds.org?

Actually they have commented on it. Here is an extract:

Elders Cook, Tingey and I represented the church yesterday in New York at the invitation of the Catholic Church to participate in the Christian Ecumenical Prayer Service where Pope Benedict the 16th introduced the theme, “Christ our hope for unity.”

We have had a long and pleasant relationship with the Catholic Church working together in Christian humanitarian service around the world. We are also grateful that many people of other faiths acknowledge us as Christians and have spoken up when they felt we were being unfairly maligned.

---

I support the call of the Pope that all who believe in God unite in an effort to stem the tide of evil that is flooding the earth. And so there are many reasons why I ask Latter-day Saints to be more open about their Church membership and about their values. Jesus Christ, the Son of God and Redeemer of the world, taught us how to live. From a transcript of Elder M. Russell Ballard’s speech given at Brigham Young University Management Society in Washington, D.C., April 19, 2008.

I highly recommend everyone to read the full text of the speech. I is quite a long speech, but well worth reading.

zerinus

 

[J_C]

Right. Early LDS were usually uneducated. Now that they are getting edumaketed they are realizing how many discrepancies there are between their book and other teachings and reality. They have only two choices. Adapt or die out. And the Catholic Church has some of the information that will allow them to adapt.:bowdown2:

i think they will go the route of the Worldwise Church of God. In that case, turmoil was followed by the appointment of a prophet who up and took them orthodox, practically overnight. in the process the organization disintegrated, all their property was sold off, and the vast amajority of them were absorbed into various protestant denominations. However a hardcore of them stayed faithful to the Armstrongian ideas.

there will always be hardcore mormons, but most likely the thing will continue to morph, as it has for over a hundredd years, into kinder and gentler forms that will ultimetaly become standard mainstream protestant, just like the RLDS seems to be doing.

 

[zerinus]

Hi, Z. This part:

***But then-Bishop George H. Neiderauer, who headed the Salt Lake City Diocese at that time, said the Vatican decision “should not be understood as either judging or measuring a spiritual relationship between Jesus Christ and the LDS church.”

“As we know, the LDS church baptizes all its new members who were previously baptized in any other church,” said Bishop Neiderauer, who is now archbishop of San Francisco. “That practice indicated that the LDS church regards its own baptism as accomplishing something which is substantially different from that of all other baptismal rites.”

The Vatican ruling, he said, “indicates that the Catholic Church also recognizes that LDS baptism is substantially different from Roman Catholic baptism.”***

the way whyme was glowing, you’da thought a merger is on the horizon. I’m not sure he reads very carefully. i’m half blind but can still see the obivous.

I am puzzled by what you are referring to, or how “why me” was “glowing”. The quote you gave about baptism appears to me to be rather conciliatory towards the LDS Church. I am genuinely puzzled by what you seem to be reading in there that I don’t.

zerinus

 

[ibkc]

I have to say I am glad the LDS attended because it shows they are willing to play nicely with others, but I do find it rather odd that the LDS claimed they were invited while the Catholic Church says the LDS asked to be included. Someone isn’t telling the truth, and it really is a very silly thing to lie about. I cannot imagine what either side would have to gain by lying.

 

[Jerusha]

there will always be hardcore mormons, but most likely the thing will continue to morph, as it has for over a hundredd years, into kinder and gentler forms that will ultimetaly become standard mainstream protestant, just like the RLDS seems to be doing.

That is my sincerest hope. And I hope my work has opened up a loophole through which they might be able to crawl. A bit humbling, but------":doh2:" Says T.Monson.

 

[Jerusha]

I have to say I am glad the LDS attended because it shows they are willing to play nicely with others, but I do find it rather odd that the LDS claimed they were invited while the Catholic Church says the LDS asked to be included.

Ever heard of a request for an invitation? Just a matter of semantics.

 

[Lehl]

Actually they have commented on it. Here is an extract:

Elders Cook, Tingey and I represented the church yesterday in New York at the invitation of the Catholic Church to participate in the Christian Ecumenical Prayer Service where Pope Benedict the 16th introduced the theme, “Christ our hope for unity.”

Here’s that SPIN I mentioned before. What could be the reason the Mormons are misleading the Mormon faithful into believing that the Catholics invited them vs. them invited themselves? Perhaps the rest of Cook’s statement tells us why…

We have had a long and pleasant relationship with the Catholic Church working together in Christian humanitarian service around the world. We are also grateful that many people of other faiths acknowledge us as Christians and have spoken up when they felt we were being unfairly maligned.

​

 

[SusanAZ]

All this talk of the LDS joining Christianity is nice but very realistic. Please remember that the core doctrine of the LDS faith is that “as man is God once was and as God is man will be”. Due to this belief in the men of LDS becoming gods, I personally can not see any change within their faith.

 

[ibkc]

Ever heard of a request for an invitation? Just a matter of semantics.

In that case, it would be the LDS who are using the misleading language, then. What a surprise. Lehl’s post below explains the rationale pretty well: “See, we were at an ecumenical prayer gatherinng with the Pope! That means other people consider us Christian!” It’s kind of like how why me thinks that knowing the term “Tridentine mass” makes him authentically Catholic.

 

[zerinus]

The Vatican has made it clear that it does not consider LDS Christians.

I don’t know if they have or not. We also think that Catholicism is Apostate. That makes us even I guess.

As for the Trinity, sure we believe in the Trinity—except that we believe in the Trinity of the Bible, not the Trinity of post Apostate Christendom

zerinus

 

[Jerusha]

AW!!! They have given up polygamy and American Natives are degenerate Jews and Kolob and Quakers on the moon, surely they can redefine the Trinity and abandon the man=God doctrines, too. :ehh: They claim their religion is fluid, let them prove it. Right now they are running from the 1880 FLDS time capsule.

 

[J_C]

I am puzzled by what you are referring to, or how “why me” was “glowing”. The quote you gave about baptism appears to me to be rather conciliatory towards the LDS Church. I am genuinely puzzled by what you seem to be reading in there that I don’t.

zerinus

Hi again, Z. whyme wrote the following in #13:

*"Not to pat myself on the back but I have beens saying this for quite some time. The article also talks about shared values. I have also have said the same thing on this forum. Unfortunately some of the catholic posters could not accept such a statement. But at least now it is in print for all to see.

There is no reason for catholic answers to classify mormonism as a threat. It goes against the growing respect and shared values that both faiths possess."*

in particular i am focusing on the second paragraph in whiich he hammers again on the Catholic Answers crusade agains the “mormon threat.”

as you know our friend whyme claims to ride both motorcycles at the same time, so i tend to interpret things he writes in that light.

I agree that the article is generally conciliatory towards the LDS, and rightly so. But, i see the section I quoted as emphasizing the problem of baptism, which as you know is irreconcilable between your religion and ours. While we do share many “values” as the article points out, that doesn’t mean there is any spiritual correspondence between us.

and by the by I am personally in favor of this. I am very glad that members of the LDS leadershhip had attended the HOly Faother’s speech. I hope they got something out of it.

 

[J_C]

In that case, it would be the LDS who are using the misleading language, then. What a surprise. Lehl’s post below explains the rationale pretty well: “See, we were at an ecumenical prayer gatherinng with the Pope! That means other people consider us Christian!” It’s kind of like how why me thinks that knowing the term “Tridentine mass” makes him authentically Catholic.

this reminds me of the press coverage given to Mitt Romney after he crowed about having been invited to an audeince with the Holy Father in Rome. Turns out he was there on his own and had no greater standing than any other person in attendance. The quotes I read attributed to him made him sound liek a star struck kid.

OK i was never a Romney fan, didn’t care for his Dad either, and yes I am old enough to remember his run for the prenidency, was old enough to vote back then.

I think it is neat that our Mormann friends are eager to get approval by the mainstream. and it will come in time, I’m sure of it. these kinds of contacts with mainstream religion, such as the elders hearing the Holy Father, show that they are interested in reaching out. we should reach out in return, and I’m sure that was the intent in granting them therre wish to attend.

 

[zerinus]

I agree that the article is generally conciliatory towards the LDS, and rightly so. But, i see the section I quoted as emphasizing the problem of baptism, which as you know is irreconcilable between your religion and ours.

I was not referring to the whole article. I was referring to the section on baptism that you had quoted. I see that as being conciliatory to LDS. For your information, we refused to acknowledge Catholic baptism long before they decided to not recognize our baptisms. So we seem to be one step ahead of them on that score.

While we do share many “values” as the article points out, that doesn’t mean there is any spiritual correspondence between us.

Well, the article didn’t seem to think so. I would rather let the two cherches work that out between themselves.

zerinus