Mormons came to my door today

[StevenErickson]

One other thought…

You explained you went to anti-mormon sites (I think this is a fair categorization since the Catholic church seems to use this same categorization: catholic.com/library/anti_catholicism.asp) in your research.

When studying the Catholic church did you also thoroughly study the anti-Catholic sites? If so, do you suggest this to others who are sincerely investigating the Catholic religion?

Thanks.

 

[Lehl]

One other thought…

When studying the Catholic church did you also thoroughly study the anti-Catholic sites? If so, do you suggest this to others who are sincerely investigating the Catholic religion?

Thanks.

The big difference is that the Catholic Church does not discourage or even counsel against reading so-called “anti-Catholic” material.

Therefore, if a Catholic investigator wants to read it to formulate questions to ask in his/her RCIA class–that would actually be encouraged so that it could be discussed in class.

 

[StevenErickson]

The big difference is that the Catholic Church does not discourage or even counsel against reading so-called “anti-Catholic” material.

No, I don’t believe it is “so called”. The Catholic Church actually calls it anti-Catholic. Here let me post this link again for you…

catholic.com/library/anti_catholicism.asp

Thanks for your response, but I am wondering what MJ did in regards to the conversation we have been having.

Thanks.

 

[Chris-WA]

My comment, which you’re questioning has to do with my experiences with current LDS. The LDS people see themselves as a persecuted people. I can’t tell you the number of times in Sunday school where I heard about people being tarred and feathered and suffering all manner of persecutions simply because they were LDS. This creates a mentality amongst LDS people, which goes something like this. If you say anything which is not pro-LDS, it is automaticaly antimormon.

My experience with LDS over the last 17 years confirms exactly what you said. This is very common. It is true that Mormons consider any website, statement, study, article, or any other medium that doesn’t agree with their beliefs to be** anti-Mormon**, and they are encouraged by their church to steer clear of it. I think labeling it* “anti”* gives them an excuse to simply ignore it. It doesn’t matter how reasonable the criticism may be. If it doesn’t agree with their theology, it’s anti-Mormon. Catholics have a much different way of handling similar material. Sure, there are rabidly anti-Catholic sites out their spewing hateful lies and rhetoric. But if someone makes a reasoned argument that doesn’t agree with Catholicism, we generally don’t put our hands over our ears, close our eyes, or bury our heads in the sand. We will listen and try to understand the argument, based on its own merits, and see if it can reasonably be refuted. I suppose many Mormons would consider Catholic.com to be an anti-Mormon website because it contains articles that refute some of the claims of Mormonism. Mormons are extremely sensitive to criticism, no matter how calmly it may be given or how reasonable it may be. It very quickly becomes an emotional issue for them, as much of their faith is based on emotional experiences, and they tend to just shutdown when confronted with reasonable arguments for which they have no answer. I think there is often a conflict going on within them in that on one hand, their intellect recognizes the reasonableness of the opposing viewpoint, but on the other hand, the emotion kicks in (and the training), and then they shutdown.

Just remember, the entire religion of Mormonism is, by definition, anti-Catholic, in that it names Catholicism as an apostate church with no authority. But I don’t use that as an excuse to not read or listen to the LDS viewpoint on things. Nor does the Catholic Church ever discourage me from hearing them out.

 

[dolphinlove]

The thing is, we as Catholics, do listen to other peoples points of view about their beliefs, and we will debate them and point out the faults. We are not scared to turn away from what other people say about our religion, cause we listen and then offer them the truth of what Catholicism really is and stands for. I think religions that just block out and ignore what is said, might not have the beliefs to back up what these anti sites say, as Cathoics, we do have the belief and the truth to back us up. I cant really say ive ever seen a Catholic being backed into a corner, every other religion i have seen has!

 

[why_me]

The big difference is that the Catholic Church does not discourage or even counsel against reading so-called “anti-Catholic” material.

Actually, catholics are not encouraged to visit anticatholic sites. They would be cautioned to stay away from such sites. At least this is my understanding.

 

[why_me]

My experience with LDS over the last 17 years confirms exactly what you said. This is very common. It is true that Mormons consider any website, statement, study, article, or any other medium that doesn’t agree with their beliefs to be** anti-Mormon**, and they are encouraged by their church to steer clear of it. I think labeling it* “anti”* gives them an excuse to simply ignore it.

.

An anti mormon site attempts to disparage the lds church. Either by distorting information or by actively fighting against the lds church. The purpose of antimormon sites is not to inform but to persuade people away from the lds church. And that makes all the difference. Antimormon sites are often very cunningly worded as are anticatholic sites.

 

[Gigglin4God]

If you want to add something comical to them to get their reaction to never come back, this is what my brother in law has told the JW’s and they have never come back again. He told them sure, come on in, we will all get undressed because we are nudist here, and we can talk all you want. For some reason he hasnt had a problem with them coming back ?? Hmmm I wonder why? LOL

 

[J_C]

An anti mormon site attempts to disparage the lds church. Either by distorting information or by actively fighting against the lds church. The purpose of antimormon sites is not to inform but to persuade people away from the lds church. And that makes all the difference. Antimormon sites are often very cunningly worded as are anticatholic sites.

whyme seems like a version of what is so common among mormans and others of the similar goal, which is that they shield their true nature ever so delicately in order to get a foot into the door. I have never in my life seen a Catholic do this, but it is common among the mormans. tell people they are something other than what they are like whyme coming here announcing he is now Catholic but it is clear now to anyone with half a brain that he is as morman as they come. this type of behavior isn’t worthy of a great religion. if mromans have nothings to fear from the truth then why do they disguise themselves so often?

 

[why_me]

whyme seems like a version of what is so common among mormans and others of the similar goal, which is that they shield their true nature ever so delicately in order to get a foot into the door. I have never in my life seen a Catholic do this, but it is common among the mormans. tell people they are something other than what they are like whyme coming here announcing he is now Catholic but it is clear now to anyone with half a brain that he is as morman as they come. this type of behavior isn’t worthy of a great religion. if mromans have nothings to fear from the truth then why do they disguise themselves so often?

I have stated my beliefs rather well and why I am defending the lds church here. It is quite simple really. Catholics post disparaging information about the mormons often referring to antimormon sites and the catholics who are negative about the lds church use harsh words for lds leaders and doctrine.

I cannot tolerate such behavior without responding. Every debate has two sides and the mormon story is not easy to write off. It is not a cult but a faith made up of sincere people who believe that their faith is true as the catholics do too for their own faith. I may not be active in the lds church but I respect the lds church as I do the catholic church. I am not doctrinaire.

I have also come across antimormon sites a few years ago and they had an impact on me at that time. I was depressed for a couple weeks. But then, I sat down and began to study their use of hyperbole and hypothetical illustrations to support their claims and I suddenly realized that such sites have partial truth but not the whole truth of lds history and doctrine.

I began to feel better after my discovery. You see, I can also go to anticatholic sites and put people on the defensive on this forum. It is very easy to play the white pieces in a chess game. But what would be the point? My motto is: let mormons be mormons and catholics be catholics. And see the two faiths from commonality and not from difference.

 

[TMC]

I get Mormon missionaries a couple times a summer, at least. I confess that I find them adorable. They are always so polite and sincere. I tell them that I am familiar with their religion (which I am) and that I am Catholic. I am very nice to them, they are always very nice to me. I usually say something like “I’m pretty Catholic and your really not changing my mind, but if you want to give me your spiel I’d love to hear it.” They give their little spiel about a new book of the Bible and yada yada. I take pamphlet if they have one, but not a Book of Mormon. Sometimes they ask if I have any neighbors that I think would be receptive to their message. I say everyone I know in the neighborhood is pretty solidly in a Christian church (which is true). I send them on their way. Last summer I bumped into one of my teams a few times in the neighborhood, they stopped and asked how I was, how’s the dog (my bulldog is usually with me) etc.

I think being nice as can be is kind of like out Mormoning the Mormons. Next time those boys here how nasty Catholics are, maybe they’ll think of me and my dog and wonder if they are getting the whole story.

 

[ibkc]

The big difference is that the Catholic Church does not discourage or even counsel against reading so-called “anti-Catholic” material.

That is because so much anti-Catholic material out there, including the site the Steve linked to, is full of information that is easily refuted using the Catechism and other Church documents. What the Mormons often label “anti-Mormon” are usually facts, verifiable using the Mormons’ own materials, which the Mormons do not want known to the general public. That is a huge difference.

 

[StevenErickson]

That is because so much anti-Catholic material out there, including the site the Steve linked to, is full of information that is easily refuted using the Catechism and other Church documents. What the Mormons often label “anti-Mormon” are usually facts, verifiable using the Mormons’ own materials, which the Mormons do not want known to the general public. That is a huge difference.

That is a very convenient arguement don’t you think? Of course you believe anti-Catholic sites are full of falsehoods and easily refutable. I believe the same about anti-mormon sites. I would assume Jews believe the same about anti-Jewish sites, etc. I have been wondering what is the preferred source for finding the truth about what a particular religion believes.

To believe that ALL anti-mormon sites don’t twist the truth in someway is very naive. You actually make my point nicely. If anti-mormon sites are verifable using the Mormon’s own material, why not just use their own material then?

The reliance of sites against another church seem to be very well supported in this forum and seem to be a standard way the search for truth is found by Catholics here. To follow this methodology of finding truth that is demonstrated here would you suggest I start an investigation of the Catholic religion then with some anti-Catholic sites? Also, when studying the Catholic religion which anti-catholic sites did you visit in your quest for truth?

 

[J_C]

"I have stated my beliefs rather well and why I am defending the lds church here. It is quite simple really. Catholics post disparaging information about the mormons often referring to antimormon sites and the catholics who are negative about the lds church use harsh words for lds leaders and doctrine."

whyme I have been reading your posts since you first came to CA. even tho I have not posted until now, I am familiar with your style. I agree with you that some poeple here both Catholic and protestant are a little rough on the mormans. as you say, some mormans are rough on Catholics. the entire premise of the morman churhc is anticatholic, and the language used by the early morman leaders was very severe. I know some LSD people and most of them are very nice, but a few are very nasty when it comes to talking about Catholics. yes it works both ways and I admire your persistence in being fair.

But, you have evaded the many direct questions put to you by several Catholics to the point, how do you reconcile the fact that neither LSD nor Catholic churches will accept one another? You know as well as i do that you can’t be both morman and Catholic at the same time. I believe that is why you evade that question, because you are disguising yourself here, prestning yourself as a hybrid Catholic/morman when in fact you are TBM thru and thru.

As far as how this is related to the thread, I have also seen this type of costuming by other LDS who have come here pretending to be something else than what they are. the missionarys do this, though I think most of them dont’ realize they are doing it b\ecause they are young and not very well educated, but are being used by the LSD leadership to present a wholesome image and a quasiChristian persona so that a sale can be made quickly.

anyways you are a nice person, and if you are what you say you are truly then you are very misguided in trying to walk a fence between two religions that will not tolerate one another. but you are i believe way too smart to actually be doing that, so I think you are playing a game, just my opinion.

 

[ibkc]

That is a very convenient arguement don’t you think? Of course you believe anti-Catholic sites are full of falsehoods and easily refutable.

I don’t “believe” it; I know it. I can pick up my catechism and check about 10,000 claims on that site you linked against it, and see that the site is lying about what the Catholic Church actually teaches.

I can also check what people critical of the Mormon church say against what actual Mormon doctrines say, and see that the two aren’t in disagreement.

I believe the same about anti-mormon sites.

So you’re saying you guys don’t believe that God the Father was once a man? That Jesus and Lucifer are brothers? That American Indians are actually Israelites? And all that stuff?

I would assume Jews believe the same about anti-Jewish sites, etc.

Anti-Jewish sites, generally, are very similar to anti-Catholic sites: full of unresearched propaganda, much of it handed down for generations, and easily refutable simply by looking at real history and actual Jewish teachings.

I have been wondering what is the preferred source for finding the truth about what a particular religion believes.

The religion itself, of course.

To believe that ALL anti-mormon sites don’t twist the truth in someway is very naive.

It certainly is! I’m so glad no one here believes that.

You actually make my point nicely. If anti-mormon sites are verifable using the Mormon’s own material, why not just use their own material then?

Nearly all the sites linked to here do use actual LDS material.

Also, when studying the Catholic religion which anti-catholic sites did you visit in your quest for truth?

I have been agnostic or pagan for nearly 20 years, and spent much of that time highly critical of Christianity in general. To list every website and book I have read which criticizes Christianity and Catholicism would be impossible. I eventually became attracted to Catholicism because unlike nearly every other Christian church out there, Catholicism has real, objective, factual history on its side. Mormonism? Let’s be charitable and simply say that it does not.

 

[RebeccaJ]

An anti mormon site attempts to disparage the lds church. Either by distorting information or by actively fighting against the lds church. The purpose of antimormon sites is not to inform but to persuade people away from the lds church. And that makes all the difference. Antimormon sites are often very cunningly worded as are anticatholic sites.

Oh, I dunno, I read them. No one has told me not to, and if they did, I would wonder what they were trying to hide.

And whyme, some of the best anti-Catholic info can be found at your mormon apologetics website. They work pretty hard at “proving” a “great apostasy” FAIR, now Maxwell Institute, also has some choice anti-Catholic weirdness.

You still haven’t told me how lds4u.com is antimormon.

 

[PaulDupre]

If anti-mormon sites are verifable using the Mormon’s own material, why not just use their own material then?

That’s the point - anti-Mormon sites DO use the LDS Church’s own materials to discredit them. They use quotes from Mormon prophets and apostles. There is enough bizzare stuff in the D&C, PoGP and the JoD to completely destroy the mainstream image the church is trying to foist upon the unsuspecting public these days. Those sites are just trying to inform people before the missionaries start lying to them.

Forewarned is forearmed.

Paul

 

[Filius99993]

Today I had my first door knocking Mormon experience. A few years ago, while I was in college, two girls talked with me as I was walking back to campus at night; but tonight was the first time that Mormons actually knocked at my door. When I opened the door, I was a bit confused; I thought maybe the two young men were friends of my housemates (who were not home)

They started talking to me, asking me if I’ve heard of this special sort of gospel. I said no, but when they mentioned the Church of Latter Day Saints, I knew who they were.

So, they asked me if I had any questions. Not being very familiar, but knowing something about Mormonism, I said no; but I asked if perhaps I could have a Book of Mormon. They gave me one, not reluctantly I don’t think, but I think they wanted to talk with me some more. It was a rather interesting conversation. We were very polite to each other, even shaking hands. They said they would come back in a week to see how I am doing. I’m wondering what I should say to them when they come back–if I should spend time studying Mormonism during the week. I don’t really want to slam the door on their face, even if I don’t believe what Mormonism teaches.

What do you think?

If Mormons ever come to our front door, they won’t come back… to our front door, of course.

 

[mschrank]

If Mormons ever come to our front door, they won’t come back… to our front door of course.

We’ve begun feeding our 4 month old German Shepherd puppy a Mormon with breakfast and a Jehovah’s Witness with his dinner. I think I have noticed a marked improvement on his coat, very shiny and he seems to have more energy.

If you have a dog capable of downing Mormons whole, then I recommend you accept the free samples that the Mormon church sends to your door.

You don’t even need to buy anything, just remember not to sign up to any of their subscriptions because really a dog can only eat so many Mormons in one day or a week, and then you’ll have to put them in the refrigerator and they’re bound to go to waste.

 

[Filius99993]

We’ve begun feeding our 4 month old German Shepherd puppy a Mormon with breakfast and a Jehovah’s Witness with his dinner. I think I have noticed a marked improvement on his coat, very shiny and he seems to have more energy.

If you have a dog capable of downing Mormons whole, then I recommend you accept the free samples that the Mormon church sends to your door.

You don’t even need to buy anything, just remember not to sign up to any of their subscriptions because really a dog can only eat so many Mormons in one day or a week, and then you’ll have to put them in the refrigerator and they’re bound to go to waste.

O, woe! Why must my dog be a non-Mormon consuming border collie cross!?