R
RebeccaJ
Guest
Could be the same person…progressing…
- Status
Z
zerinus
Guest
It is my reincarnation. I have just been reincarnated by forum admin.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Reincarnated…?..
I pray for people on your blog that they may come to know the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ which you promote between visits here.
False teachers denying the Eucharist…that original Great Heresy.
I did check the official Mormon site after visiting the LDS store and came to the Doctrines and Covenants on my own. They are pretty clear…
I pray for people on your blog that they may come to know the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ which you promote between visits here.
False teachers denying the Eucharist…that original Great Heresy.
I did check the official Mormon site after visiting the LDS store and came to the Doctrines and Covenants on my own. They are pretty clear…
S
SteveVH
Guest
I find this “fundamental principle” spiritually dangerous, arrogant and elitist. I don’t mean this personally, zerinus, but stop and think of what this really means and its ramifications. You are saying unless you can comprehend something then it is not true. This means that you can fully comprehend God, which in turn means that He can be no greater than you. It leads to notions such as God has a body of flesh and bone just like us, because you cannot imagine otherwise. Do you realize how much you diminish the glory and majesty of God with this “fundamental principle”? You reduce Him to one of us. You make Him in our image and likeness. It is why the Catholic Church is criticized by the LDS for believing in an unfathomable mystery. To you there are no mysteries. Yet we cannot even fathom the limits of our own being, much less our Creator. Please consider, for your own good, what I am saying here.
R
rainman10
Guest
Or it could be a new and updated “revelation” or it could have just been an opinion of some previous prophet or two.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
You will get no straight answer from people who believe a fraud…I am speaking from truth.
I do not understand how the Mormon leadership can sit with itself knowing Smith’s history, and how it sets up such an internal system within itself that it is very hard for their people to use reason, to follow the footsteps of those with a history of unethical behavior.
I do not understand how the Mormon leadership can sit with itself knowing Smith’s history, and how it sets up such an internal system within itself that it is very hard for their people to use reason, to follow the footsteps of those with a history of unethical behavior.
Z
zerinus
Guest
I assure you that in Mormonism God is indeed comprehensible:
D&C 88:
49 The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not; nevertheless, the day shall come when you shall comprehend even God, being quickened in him and by him.
50 Then shall ye know that ye have seen me, that I am, and that I am the true light that is in you, and that you are in me; otherwise ye could not abound.
It doesn’t say that we can comprehend Him now, but eventually we can; and indeed all truth is comprehensible, eventually:
D&C 93:
27 And no man receiveth a fulness unless he keepeth his commandments.
28 He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things.
And this is affirmed by the Bible:
1 John 2:
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1 John 3:
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1 Corinthians 13:
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And Alma in the Book of Mormon teaches:
Alma 32:
35 O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is light; and whatsoever is light, is good, because it is discernible, therefore ye must know that it is good; . . .
It is the quality of light that it is discernible, and light is an attribute of truth. It means that truth by definition is comprehensible. Now if that is too much for you to stomach, then Mormonism is not for you. There are some things that only men can handle, boys can’t! If you can’t handle the heavy stuff, then don’t waste your effort. Stick with the lighter stuff that you can manage. But be ware of what the Lord has warned in the following verses:
Matthew 6:
22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Rejecting light will cause us to loose light.
As for how we can determine if a doctrine is true and of God, this is what the Lord has revealed:
D&C 50:
13 Wherefore, I the Lord ask you this question—unto what were ye ordained?
14 To preach my gospel by the Spirit, even the Comforter which was sent forth to teach the truth.
15 And then received ye spirits which ye could not understand, and received them to be of God; and in this are ye justified?
21 Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?
22 Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together.
23 And that which doth not edify is not of God, and is darkness.
24 That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day.
God does not reveal any doctrine to His Church that is incomprehensible, as taught by Nephi:
2 Nephi 31:
3 For my soul delighteth in plainness; for after this manner doth the Lord God work among the children of men. For the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto men according to their language, unto their understanding.
That means that if something is taught in the Church that nobody can make any sense of, chances are that it is not of God; and “eternal progression” appears to have been one of those.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Zerinus,
Your concept of God is incomprehensible…
What kind of God would send His Son as Redeemer and Savior of the world at the wrong time or allow Him to chose Apostles who were inept to appoint successors?
Where is God that condemns the faith of Christianity…that Smith labels as all an abomination? How would one see all the looooove Mormons have for Christians to make up such convictions as that? Wouldn’t such a ‘love’ be sanctimonious?..rather one to cover one’s base to avoid condemnation by God? We are all called to love our neighbor as ourself, you know…so it is expedient to atleast say there must have been a few Christians existing during the 1800 years after Christ…
come on…
Where is the Holy Spirit in this condemnation, where is the Holy Spirit at work in the writings and behaviors of those polygamists who contradicted Christ and His sanctification of the permanency of one man and one woman…and the use of divinations and magic to find secret truths? That is a selfish and exclusive god who wants you to say you are better and follow secrets…God save me from those people…I don’t want to be like thoooose people…can hear it now.
Jesus Christ gave us all we need to know about Him and God. If He was unable to provide all that was needed to be Savior and Redeemer and set up His church when He was here…then yes, you are operating on a different concept of God.
Your concept of God is incomprehensible…
What kind of God would send His Son as Redeemer and Savior of the world at the wrong time or allow Him to chose Apostles who were inept to appoint successors?
Where is God that condemns the faith of Christianity…that Smith labels as all an abomination? How would one see all the looooove Mormons have for Christians to make up such convictions as that? Wouldn’t such a ‘love’ be sanctimonious?..rather one to cover one’s base to avoid condemnation by God? We are all called to love our neighbor as ourself, you know…so it is expedient to atleast say there must have been a few Christians existing during the 1800 years after Christ…
come on…
Where is the Holy Spirit in this condemnation, where is the Holy Spirit at work in the writings and behaviors of those polygamists who contradicted Christ and His sanctification of the permanency of one man and one woman…and the use of divinations and magic to find secret truths? That is a selfish and exclusive god who wants you to say you are better and follow secrets…God save me from those people…I don’t want to be like thoooose people…can hear it now.
Jesus Christ gave us all we need to know about Him and God. If He was unable to provide all that was needed to be Savior and Redeemer and set up His church when He was here…then yes, you are operating on a different concept of God.
S
SteveVH
Guest
Yes I know, and the fact that you believe that only demonstrates the error in your beliefs as far as I am concerned.
You didn’t say eventually. Yes, when we get to heaven we will see Him as He really is and will spend eternity gazing upon Him in wonderment.
You’re very close to being reported to the moderators by me. If you cannot handle an adult conversation without trying to belittle someone then you don’t belong on this forum. Weren’t you just suspended? Or maybe it wasn’t you, but another zerinus. You can consider our conversation over and done with.
Z
zerinus
Guest
I didn’t say that, God said it, and I believe His word.
Are you admitting that God is comprehensible—at some point in time? Then you are agreeing with Mormon revelation, because that is what it said.
Okay, now we know that SteveVH can’t take a joke. For your information, I am not afraid of people’s threats. You can report me if you like. I don’t care whether you do or not. But it looks like you might have a point. If you can’t conduct a debate without making threats, maybe you are not the kind of person I should be debating with. Have a nice day.
S
SteveVH
Guest
Here is your joke:
After looking at it a second time, my sides are splitting.
Nice try.
Z
zerinus
Guest
And here was your insulting post:
Should I report you for insulting me by calling me dangerous, arrogant, and elitist? But I am not a whiner. I am not in the habit of reporting people for insulting me. I can generally handle them myself, so I don’t need to.
S
SteveVH
Guest
Z
zerinus
Guest
You are now being a smart aleck. That was an insulting and condescending post. There should be no place on CAF for people like you.
S
SteveVH
Guest
Alright zerinus. I had no intention of insulting you and if I worded my post in such a manner that you perceived it as a personal insult then I apologize. I still maintain, however, that any faith tradition that states that one can fully comprehend the infinite with a finite mind is leading people down a spiritually dangerous path and that this line of thought, by its very nature, is arrogant in that it places man on the same level as God. I am speaking of the “fundamental principle” which you described and this is in no way a personal attack on you. Now, can we put this to bed please?
Z
zerinus
Guest
Yes; and if you would go back and reread my post #185 more carefully, and pay more careful attention to the scriptural verses given, especially the biblical ones, I believe that you will come to the conclusion that LDS doctrine conforms with what is taught in the Bible.
O
onenow1
Guest
I pray for people on your blog that they may come to know the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ which you promote between visits here.
I too:thumbsup: Jesus said:
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already made clean by the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you.”
John 15:1-7
Wow! In those seven verses, the word ABIDE is mentioned seven times.
So we must not only ABIDE in Him but we must also strive to enter by the narrow gate.Matt 7:13-14. So Jesus said that if we do not ABIDE in Him (the Vine) then we will be taken away from the Vine by the Father, and will be cast off only to wither, to be gathered, and then to be thrown into the fire and burned.
The theological meaning of ABIDE is to dwell within.
What is required in order to have Jesus abide in us and we in Him?Jesus left this command for us in: John 6:53-57: So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.
Jesus said he would be with us to the end of time,and meant it in John 6.
Peace
S
SteveVH
Guest
Here are your biblical quotes:
I have no problem with any of them though I do have a problem in the KJV translation of 1 John 2:20. Here are some other translations.
“But you have an anointing from the Holy One and all of you know the truth.” (NIV)
“But you have the anointing that comes from the holy one, and you all have knowledge.” (NAB)
I don’t think this is evidence that we, in our present state, can fully comprehend the infinite God, regardless of the translation. The context of the passage is the anti-Christ and John is comparing those who have knowledge of the truth that Jesus is the Christ to those who do not and have been led astray by the evil one. So the knowledge that is being spoken of is knowledge that Jesus is the Messiah, not that we fully comprehend the infinite God.
As for quotes from Mormon “scriptures” they prove absolutely nothing for me because I don’t believe they are the word of God, but rather the word of man; “another gospel” which we have been warned against believing. By the way, that is not a personal slam.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Zerinus…
You come across as elitist…as if we do not know anything and Mormonism is correct…you have your blog where you come here to promote your religion, then go back and try to get fellow Mormons to not believe in the Eucharist.
Onenow…has drawn from Sacred Scriptures the very word of Jesus that contradicts your intentions to dismantle and in effect prevent others from coming to the Banquet Table, to grow on the Lord and His life.
Scripture and the Tradition of faith go hand in hand together. To deny one or the other prevents you from drawing on the fountain of Jesus Christ, Who shares His Soul, Blood, Body and Divinity now, today…we have no need for exaltation or progression. Our life is in Jesus.
Our faith is not based on words in Scripture about Him. Rather, our faith in Christ’s words in Scripture are actualized in the Eucharist. St. John the Evangelist was very clear.
You come across as elitist…as if we do not know anything and Mormonism is correct…you have your blog where you come here to promote your religion, then go back and try to get fellow Mormons to not believe in the Eucharist.
Onenow…has drawn from Sacred Scriptures the very word of Jesus that contradicts your intentions to dismantle and in effect prevent others from coming to the Banquet Table, to grow on the Lord and His life.
Scripture and the Tradition of faith go hand in hand together. To deny one or the other prevents you from drawing on the fountain of Jesus Christ, Who shares His Soul, Blood, Body and Divinity now, today…we have no need for exaltation or progression. Our life is in Jesus.
Our faith is not based on words in Scripture about Him. Rather, our faith in Christ’s words in Scripture are actualized in the Eucharist. St. John the Evangelist was very clear.
Z
zerinus
Guest
There are many translations that support the KJV:
International Standard Version (©2008)
You have an anointing from the Holy One and know all things.
American King James Version
But you have an unction from the Holy One, and you know all things.
American Standard Version
And ye have an anointing from the Holy One, and ye know all the things.
Douay-Rheims Bible
But you have the unction from the Holy One, and know all things.
Darby Bible Translation
And ye have the unction from the holy one, and ye know all things.
English Revised Version
And ye have an anointing from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
Webster’s Bible Translation
But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
Weymouth New Testament
As for you, you have an anointing from the holy One and have perfect knowledge.
Young’s Literal Translation
And ye have an anointing from the Holy One, and have known all things;
I agree. Mormonism doesn’t teach that either. The scripture I gave earlier makes that clear:
D&C 88:
49 The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not; nevertheless, the day shall come when you shall comprehend even God, being quickened in him and by him.
I disagree. You are misinterpreting John. He isn’t saying that we know all truth in existence. He doesn’t mean we are omniscient. What he means is that we know, or can know, by the Holy Spirit (the “unction”), all applicable or relevant truth that we need to know in order to be saved. It means that we need not be deceived by falsehood regarding religion, if we have the Holy Spirit with us, which leads us to all truth. The “unction” is the Holy Ghost:
John 16:
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
That is up to you. I am quoting them in order to explain to you what Mormons believe. The debate centers on the beliefs of Mormonism, and I am trying to make sure you understand the beliefs of Mormonism correctly, and not misunderstanding them as you seem inclined to do.As for quotes from Mormon “scriptures” they prove absolutely nothing for me because I don’t believe they are the word of God, but rather the word of man; “another gospel” which we have been warned against believing. By the way, that is not a personal slam.
- Status