Mormons: Can I get a straight answer?

[SteveVH]

There are many translations that support the KJV:

International Standard Version (©2008)
You have an anointing from the Holy One and know all things.

American King James Version
But you have an unction from the Holy One, and you know all things.

American Standard Version
And ye have an anointing from the Holy One, and ye know all the things.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But you have the unction from the Holy One, and know all things.

Darby Bible Translation
And ye have the unction from the holy one, and ye know all things.

English Revised Version
And ye have an anointing from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

Webster’s Bible Translation
But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

Weymouth New Testament
As for you, you have an anointing from the holy One and have perfect knowledge.

Young’s Literal Translation
And ye have an anointing from the Holy One, and have known all things;

Context, zerinus, context.

I agree. Mormonism doesn’t teach that either. The scripture I gave earlier makes that clear:

D&C 88:

49 The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not; nevertheless, the day shall come when you shall comprehend even God, being quickened in him and by him.

If you would have explained in the beginning that you believe that one day, when we enter heaven, we will understand fully who God is we would not be having this conversation, but you did not. Here is what you said:

Originally Posted by zerinus
I assure you that in Mormonism God is indeed comprehensible:

You left out the little detail that this would not be in this lifetime.

I disagree. You are misinterpreting John. He isn’t saying that we know all truth in existence. He doesn’t mean we are omniscient. What he means is that we know, or can know, by the Holy Spirit (the “unction”), all applicable or relevant truth that we need to know in order to be saved. It means that we need not be deceived by falsehood regarding religion, if we have the Holy Spirit with us, which leads us to all truth. The “unction” is the Holy Ghost:

Now I am completely confused. You are making my point.

That is up to you. I am quoting them in order to explain to you what Mormons believe. The debate centers on the beliefs of Mormonism, and I am trying to make sure you understand the beliefs of Mormonism correctly, and not misunderstanding them as you seem inclined to do.

But if you are trying to convince someone that what you believe is true, using materials which are not credible to that person, or are at least in question, is pretty much a waste of time. In other words, if I am trying to convince an athiest that God exists, pulling passages out of scripture, in which he does not believe in the first place, would be ill conceived. I would try to find common ground, such as the order of the universe, the nature of mankind, evidence of intelligent design in the world. As for us, the common ground that we share is the holy Bible. If you cannot make your argument from the Bible then your argument is not going to be credible to anyone except Mormons.

Please don’t misunderstand me. As a Catholic I do not believe that the Bible contains everything we need to know, or at least that it is not real explicit in some areas. I am speaking of convincing someone of truth from where they are sitting.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Isn’t it a possibility that Joseph Smith was crazy and made things up? Or is that not a possibility?

 

[SteveVH]

Isn’t it a possibility that Joseph Smith was crazy and made things up? Or is that not a possibility?

Crazy like a fox maybe. I will have to admit that JS went to great lengths to be convince people that he was a prophet, more than most. The JW’s just touched up the scriptures to fit their beliefs. At least JS, or others around him, went to the trouble of actually writing “another gospel”. It is his life that gives him away and brings into question his real intentions. He made it permissable to break God’s commandments in order to sleep with whomever he chose, which, in itself, is a strong motivation to do what he did. I don’t think he was crazy, but yes, it is certainly a possiblity.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Crazy like a fox maybe. I will have to admit that JS went to great lengths to be convince people that he was a prophet, more than most. The JW’s just touched up the scriptures to fit their beliefs. At least JS, or others around him, went to the trouble of actually writing “another gospel”. It is his life that gives him away and brings into question his real intentions. He made it permissable to break God’s commandments in order to sleep with whomever he chose, which, in itself, is a strong motivation to do what he did. I don’t think he was crazy, but yes, it is certainly a possiblity.

I think he made it up to get away with what he wanted to do. What better way to do that by convincing gullible people?

 

[KathleenGee]

It wasn’t just Joseph Smith…but those in cahoots with them…Right now there is a great thrust within Mormonism to distance itself from their writings and actions and to present themselves as mainline.

There are Mormons who truly love Jesus as their Lord and Savior and ignore the peripheral.

I don’t think Zerinus has a leg to stand on with his interpretation of Scripture…

He believes there was no correct intent of understanding of faith to begin with…

The problem is the white washing and control…and calling Mormons among themselves as saints…that is a powerful emotional draw to affirm their allegiance and identity to stay in Mormonism along with the family ties.

Each unto his own.

 

[BlueShadow123]

It wasn’t just Joseph Smith…but those in cahoots with them…Right now there is a great thrust within Mormonism to distance itself from their writings and actions and to present themselves as mainline.

There are Mormons who truly love Jesus as their Lord and Savior and ignore the peripheral.

I don’t think Zerinus has a leg to stand on with his interpretation of Scripture…

He believes there was no correct intent of understanding of faith to begin with…

The problem is the white washing and control…and calling Mormons among themselves as saints…that is a powerful emotional draw to affirm their allegiance and identity to stay in Mormonism along with the family ties.

Each unto his own.

I could never be with a man who had multiple wives

 

[SteveVH]

I could never be with a man who had multiple wives

Joseph Smith’s wife Emma wasn’t real thrilled either and one can only guess at the attitude of the parents of the very young girls he bedded. Had it been my daughter, I would have knocked his teeth down his throat, with charity, of course.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Joseph Smith’s wife Emma wasn’t real thrilled either and one can only guess at the attitude of the parents of the very young girls he bedded. Had it been my daughter, I would have knocked his teeth down his throat, with charity, of course.

Well I would never marry a guy who was going to marry multiple women. and if he did, I would divorce him.

 

[KathleenGee]

He threatened his wife Emma that she would go to hell if she did not go along with his seedy behavior…

He contradicts the directives of Christ. There are fundamentalist Mormons who still practice polygamy…When I was there, heard it was down in Logan. Mainstream Mormons do not like it.

 

[BlueShadow123]

He threatened his wife Emma that she would go to hell if she did not go along with his seedy behavior…

He contradicts the directives of Christ. There are fundamentalist Mormons who still practice polygamy…When I was there, heard it was down in Logan. Mainstream Mormons do not like it.

Actually alot Christs men in the bible had multiple wives too. Which i also find gross, but thats just my opinion. Alot of women back then who needed protection and a place to stay would marry a man even if he had multiple wives.

 

[KathleenGee]

Did you study what Christ taught about divorce?

 

[BlueShadow123]

Did you study what Christ taught about divorce?

I already know about what catholics/christians/christ thought of divorce. But if my husband married multiple women, I would divorce him.

And nobody could change that. However the chances of that happening are so so so so slim. So looks like I’m in the clear.

 

[Miriam1947]

Actually alot Christs men in the bible had multiple wives too. Which i also find gross, but thats just my opinion. Alot of women back then who needed protection and a place to stay would marry a man even if he had multiple wives.

A lot of women back then who needed protection and a place to stay would marry a man even if he had multiple wives.

I’m not sure what time period you are looking at here but, there were more men than women during J. Smith’s time and some of the women he married already had husbands.

That would be not only polygamy but also adultery. Wouldn’t want to be in his shoes at his judgement.

 

[zerinus]

If you would have explained in the beginning that you believe that one day, when we enter heaven, we will understand fully who God is we would not be having this conversation, but you did not. Here is what you said:

Yes, I said that God is comprehensible, which you were denying Him to be,—ever.

You left out the little detail that this would not be in this lifetime.

I didn’t, since that was not an issue in question.

But if you are trying to convince someone that what you believe is true, using materials which are not credible to that person, . . .

I use Mormon scripture to explain what Mormons believe. I quote from the Bible to prove that Mormon beliefs are biblical (which you claim to accept).

 

[SteveVH]

Yes, I said that God is comprehensible, which you were denying Him to be,—ever.

Really? Can you please show me where I said “ever”? There will be no Catholics or Momons in heaven, only saints. When you make a comment that God is comprehensible to Mormons I don’t believe that I am being unreasonable in thinking that you are speaking of this life.

So lets be clear. I believe that God is beyond my comprehension during this life. In heaven I will see him “face to face” which means that I will understand fully.

Now, do you believe that you can fully comprehend God right now? Not later, but right now? Its a very simple question.

I didn’t, since that was not an issue in question.

You didn’t think the context of whether we were speaking in the present sense or in the heavenly sense was an issue or might make a difference in how one might answer the question? :newidea:

I use Mormon scripture to explain what Mormons believe. I quote from the Bible to prove that Mormon beliefs are biblical (which you claim to accept).

Well you are free to use any method you choose. Have at it. I have yet to see a uniquely Mormon belief proven using the Bible. But at least it is a credible source.

 

[onenow1]

Really? C
So lets be clear. I believe that God is beyond my comprehension during this life. In heaven I will see him “face to face” which means that I will understand fully.
Now, do you believe that you can fully comprehend God right now? Not later, but right now? Its a very simple question…

God can never be understood but we can obey Him:getholy:! The day we undestand, thats the day we become gods !

Quote=onenow1"s Opinion.“We will see Him as He is, that is,Perfect Love for us, and we for Him,and one another, this was His 11th command encapsulating all 10. The scar of original sin, will be removed completely, it will be as it was in the beginning”. "Our unearned gift of life "!

The Author of the following is Unknown !
He stands forth upon the highest pinnacle of heavenly glory, proclaimed of GOD, acknowledged by angels, adored by saints, and feared by devils, as the living personal Christ, our Lord and Savior.

Peace

 

[Javl]

Posted by Zerinus:
I use Mormon scripture to explain what Mormons believe. I quote from the Bible to prove that Mormon beliefs are biblical (which you claim to accept).

Sorry, Zerinus, but from what I have read of Mormon beliefs in these Forum threads, the LDS use of Bible Quotes does not prove that Mormon beliefs are Biblical. There is too much Mormon spin on interpreting and understanding the Judaeo-Christian Scriptures.One glaring example is the Holy Trinity.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[KathleenGee]

From my own personal encounter with Smith’s Doctrines and Covenants, they do not mirror salvation history.

It is through the Jews and not Joseph Smith that we receive the Word of God. The beginning Christian church, ‘church’ here meaning true believers in Christ, was Jewish.
Smith and the other native Americans were not chosen by God outside of the Jewish race to bring us the chosen faith.

Again, it is through the Jews that true faith and religion is brought to the world in Christ.

 

[onenow1]

Well from my perspective, why did Jesus wait till 1830 to make any corrections to NT history in the Americas as a whole You’d think he would have started in Latin America pronto and not let heresy get a foot hold of course we know there was no heresy or apostacy.

Happy 2011 All

 

[Miriam1947]

Yes, I said that God is comprehensible, which you were denying Him to be,—ever.

I didn’t, since that was not an issue in question.

I use Mormon scripture to explain what Mormons believe. I quote from the Bible to prove that Mormon beliefs are biblical (which you claim to accept).

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