Mormons: Can I get a straight answer?

[BYUChemAlum]

sourceflix.com/dna-vs-the-book-of-mormon/

sourceflix.com/the-bible-vs-the-book-of-mormon/

sourceflix.com/the-bible-vs-joseph-smith-official-release/

maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/review/?vol=17&num=2&id=581

 

[KathleenGee]

Thanks…will read over New Year’s weekend…some new insights coming forth from our Mormon members.

 

[KathleenGee]

Will have to read better…but why isn’t the Jewish religion acknowledging the Book of Mormon…or atleast taking on its own research of Smith’s claims??? I work among highly educated Jews, some of them secular…and they are very tight about preserving their own ethnicity…wish I could say the same of Catholics…

And the use of coins as signs of archaeological documentation…when Jesus said money is the root of all evil?

Looking at money as the primary artifact would not tend to sway me.

 

[Miriam1947]

Will have to read better…but why isn’t the Jewish religion acknowledging the Book of Mormon…or atleast taking on its own research of Smith’s claims??? I work among highly educated Jews, some of them secular…and they are very tight about preserving their own ethnicity…wish I could say the same of Catholics…

And the use of coins as signs of archaeological documentation…when Jesus said money is the root of all evil?

Looking at money as the primary artifact would not tend to sway me.

The love of money is the root of evil, not money itself.

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes,…Love of money…not money in itself…

If I had no money, I would be dead from starvation and cold.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

Thanks Sunstone. I am a bit confused, however, when you say that they are “trying to distinguish between salvation from physical death granted to all through Christ…”
I am not aware that anyone is saved from physical death, but rather spiritual death.

Bodily resurrection of the dead is being saved from physical death.

In any event, it just seems to me that the Mormon focus is on one attaining greater degrees of glory, rather than a thankful heart toward our Savior. I know they will say they have a thankful heart, but their focus speaks otherwise, at least to me. Even in Catholicism, we believe that some will be given higher places in heaven depending upon how they lived their life here on earth, but that each will be filled with as much happiness as they are able to contain. Some of us are shot glasses. Some of us are 32 ounce big gulps. Each will be filled to the brim.

I have a difficult time discerning the Mormon notion of “progression” though. In some ways it may be similar to the Catholic view, however, our idea of happiness is gazing upon and worshiping our God for eternity, becoming a part of and sharing in His family.
It seems the Mormon notion concentrates on having one’s own world with a desire to be worshipped by spirit children. In other words, being god without God.

I’d be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks

Latter-day Saints firmly believe that eternal life is only possible through the atonement of Jesus Christ, and the only way to enter into the Celestial Kingdom is through faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Ghost. We do not believe in “being god without God”, since that simply is not even possible. Indeed, those in the Celestial Kingdom will be in the eternal presence of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and are joint-heirs with Jesus Christ. We do not believe that God will ever stop being our God, nor do we believe that we can save ourselves or receive exaltation on our own, since it is only through the infinite atonement of our Savior that we can be saved.

 

[KathleenGee]

Javl shared with us the new denominations within Mormonism. What you are saying then is very different who believe after death they will rule over others on their own planet.

 

[SteveVH]

Bodily resurrection of the dead is being saved from physical death.

You must physically die in order to be resurrected, therefore no one escapes physical death. Lets not play games, ok?

Latter-day Saints firmly believe that eternal life is only possible through the atonement of Jesus Christ, and the only way to enter into the Celestial Kingdom is through faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Ghost. We do not believe in “being god without God”, since that simply is not even possible. Indeed, those in the Celestial Kingdom will be in the eternal presence of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and are joint-heirs with Jesus Christ. We do not believe that God will ever stop being our God, nor do we believe that we can save ourselves or receive exaltation on our own, since it is only through the infinite atonement of our Savior that we can be saved.

Do you believe that you can “progress” to the divine state of Jesus Christ or our heavenly Father? Do you believe that our heaveny Father also has a God?

 

[BYUChemAlum]

You must physically die in order to be resurrected, therefore no one escapes physical death. Lets not play games, ok?

Firstly, if you cannot speak to me properly, then perhaps we should not be having this discussion.

The post that you were responding to by Sunstone stated that LDS “distinguish between salvation from physical death granted to all through Christ…”, and you stated that you are not aware of anyone that is saved from physical death. My response to you was of the LDS position, as Sunstone referred to, that we are all saved from physical death through bodily resurrection. If one is no longer physically dead, then they are saved from it. That is what Sunstone was talking about, and that is LDS belief, so I am unsure of what “games” you are referring to.

Salvation and Exaltation
**
“To be saved—or to gain salvation—means to be saved from physical and spiritual death. Because of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected and saved from physical death. People may also be saved from individual spiritual death through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, by their faith in Him, by living in obedience to the laws and ordinances of His gospel, and by serving Him.”**

Do you believe that you can “progress” to the divine state of Jesus Christ or our heavenly Father? Do you believe that our heaveny Father also has a God?

What LDS believe is that through the atonement of Christ, we can become joint-heirs with our Savior. Exaltation is becoming like God, and living the life that He does (if that is what you mean by “divine state”), with Him, and through Jesus Christ. We can become gods, and the Father will always be our Father, and Jesus Christ will always be our Savior.

As far as if God the Father has a Father, that is not something I really think about, however it would not bother me if He did.

 

[SteveVH]

Firstly, if you cannot speak to me properly, then perhaps we should not be having this discussion.

The post that you were responding to by Sunstone stated that LDS “distinguish between salvation from physical death granted to all through Christ…”, and you stated that you are not aware of anyone that is saved from physical death. My response to you was of the LDS position, as Sunstone referred to, that we are all saved from physical death through bodily resurrection. If one is no longer physically dead, then they are saved from it. That is what Sunstone was talking about, and that is LDS belief, so I am unsure of what “games” you are referring to.

We are not “saved” from physical death if we must undergo physical death. We are, rather, resurrected from physical death. I think we are spinning our wheels on semantics here. Please accept my apology for the less than charitable comment.

**
What LDS believe is that through the atonement of Christ, we can become joint-heirs with our Savior. Exaltation is becoming like God, and living the life that He does (if that is what you mean by “divine state”), with Him, and through Jesus Christ. We can become gods, and the Father will always be our Father, and Jesus Christ will always be our Savior.
**

And when you procreate in eternity and produce “spirit children”, who will they worship and adore?
BYUChemAlum;7417977:

As far as if God the Father has a Father, that is not something I really think about, however it would not bother me if He did.

While I appreciate you personal views, what does your church say?

 

[BYUChemAlum]

We are not “saved” from physical death if we must undergo physical death. We are, rather, resurrected from physical death. I think we are spinning our wheels on semantics here. Please accept my apology for the less than charitable comment.

Yes, I think we’re just debating semantics. All I’m saying is that it is LDS belief that resurrection is being saved from physical death, since we are not permanently dead. And I accept your apology.

And when you procreate in eternity and produce “spirit children”, who will they worship and adore?

It is taught that they will have the same relationship with those exalted as we do with our Father, and that we will be an eternal family. It is also taught that we will all be in the eternal presence of God.

While I appreciate you personal views, what does your church say?

The LDS Church does not teach anything on the matter, though if I remember correctly, Joseph Smith taught in a funeral sermon (the King Follet Discourse) that He did.

 

[SteveVH]

Yes, I think we’re just debating semantics. All I’m saying is that it is LDS belief that resurrection is being saved from physical death, since we are not permanently dead. And I accept your apology.

No problem.

It is taught that they will have the same relationship with those exalted as we do with our Father, and that we will be an eternal family. It is also taught that we will all be in the eternal presence of God.

As you are no doubt aware, this is where we begin to have problems. You then believe that you will not only be in the presence of God, but that you will actually be God in your own arena, so to speak. Will you also be omniscient, omnipresent and, as you say, all of the rest of the “omnis”. Was there ever only one God? I am not speaking in relative terms, I mean anywhere, ever?

The point being that it seems that you have no belief in the one, eternal God, without beginning and without end. You do not seem to distinguish between the Creator and the created, instead believing it is just a matter of progressing to different levels of glory and majesty and the only difference is that our God is just ahead of us in the process. Am I way off base here?

The LDS Church does not teach anything on the matter, though if I remember correctly, Joseph Smith taught in a funeral sermon (the King Follet Discourse) that He did.

Ok, thanks.