Mormons claim we worship a dead Christ

[JamesCollins]

So your wife and children are still mormon and you are the only one who converted to catholicism? Just wondering if I have the facts right.

That’s correct. My wife is definitely anti-Catholic to an extreme, and my kids are close to that. They weren’t very happy when I joined the Catholic Church and still have a hard time accepting it. My wife was raised Catholic.

 

[Publisher]

One of the claims made in the local ward’s sacrament meeting yesterday was that Mormons worship a resurrected, living Christ, but that since we use the crucifix we are worshiping a dead Christ. It seems to me it could be said we worship both the living Christ and the suffering Christ on the cross. To recognize the resurrected Christ while minimizing the crucified, suffering Christ seems to me to ignore one of the essential messages of Christianity. Anyway, Mormons seem to self-righteously claim our use of the cross is wrong.

I don’t see why their claims should upset you…Catholics tend to claim that Mormons worship a falste god and a false Christ…I don’t think “tit for tat” is a good idea, but

 

[CarolNoel]

I converted to the Catholic Church from Mormonism several years ago and resigned my membership from the LDS Church. I still attend sacrament meeting with my wife and children to keep peace in the family. I was at the meeting.

Must be difficult for you to have an anti-Catholic wife and children, but God Bless you for still being with them at their church functions.

 

[kimg901]

I think the Mormons need to concern themselves with the Christ they worship. Pres. Hinckley said “The Christ we worship is not the same Christ as the Bible”. Let us remember that they worship a god that was once a man, flesh and bones. So how can they worship the same Christ we worship if his dad was once a man?

 

[NeuroTypical]

One of the claims made in the local ward’s sacrament meeting yesterday was that Mormons worship a resurrected, living Christ, but that since we use the crucifix we are worshiping a dead Christ.

Someone felt it necessary to harp on Catholics at an LDS sacrament meeting? Well that’s kind of tacky. On behalf of Mormons, I apologize.

It seems to me it could be said we worship both the living Christ and the suffering Christ on the cross.

Fine by me.

Anyway, Mormons seem to self-righteously claim our use of the cross is wrong.

Any Mormon who does so, should be reminded of Article of Faith #11. “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”

At LDS Sacrament meetings, regular churchgoing folk are often offered the opportunity to give a talk. I’m guessing these comments about Catholics came from one of these folks, would I be correct?

For what it’s worth, I gave a talk in sacrament meeting a few months ago, and I did mention Catholics too. My comments sprang from this thread, and how Catholics responded so kindly to me.

 

[twopekinguys]

I’ve said it before, and I will say it again.

The cross, by itself, did nothing. What Christ did on the cross is EVERYTHING.

 

[PaulDupre1]

1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2** For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.**

3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

• 1 Cor 2:1-3

And…

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

• Gal 3:1

Sounds like they had the crucifix in their churches, doesn’t it?

We might say “O foolish Mormons…”

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Someone felt it necessary to harp on Catholics at an LDS sacrament meeting? Well that’s kind of tacky. On behalf of Mormons, I apologize.

Fine by me.

Any Mormon who does so, should be reminded of Article of Faith #11. “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”

At LDS Sacrament meetings, regular churchgoing folk are often offered the opportunity to give a talk. I’m guessing these comments about Catholics came from one of these folks, would I be correct?

For what it’s worth, I gave a talk in sacrament meeting a few months ago, and I did mention Catholics too. My comments sprang from this thread, and how Catholics responded so kindly to me.

You can’t be held responsible for what other Mormons say. Same thing happens in the CC with individuals claiming to speak for the Church however are making claims in error.

 

[PaulDupre1]

Mormons, when challenging Christians about the cross, are trained to say “If Jesus was shot with an AK-47, would you put one on top of your church?”

After I broke free of that cult and eventually came to Christ, I realized that “If, via an AK-47, Jesus had purchased my salvation from sin and opened the way to eternal life, then yes I would put it proudly on top of my church.”

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[PaulDupre1]

At LDS Sacrament meetings, regular churchgoing folk are often offered the opportunity to give a talk. I’m guessing these comments about Catholics came from one of these folks, would I be correct?

I am assuming that the bishop did not get up and refute what that “regular church-going folk” said; because of course that is what they really believe and teach.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[andrewstx]

Sacrament meeting is the main Mormon worship service. I’m a returned Mormon missionary, married in the temple, graduated from BYU, former Elders Quorum President Ex-Mormon who was an active adult LDS for over 30 years so I think I understand Mormonism.

I hope you don’t eat the Wonder Bread and drink the tap water! That is the only sacrament practiced by the mormons out of seven and they get it wrong. :sad_yes:

 

[JamesCollins]

I hope you don’t eat the Wonder Bread and drink the tap water! That is the only sacrament practiced by the mormons out of seven and they get it wrong. :sad_yes:

Definitely not. I resigned so they wouldn’t let me anyway!

 

[NeuroTypical]

Mormons, when challenging Christians about the cross, are trained to say “If Jesus was shot with an AK-47, would you put one on top of your church?”

Seriously Paul?

I must have missed that week in priesthood meeting.

 

[Marie5890]

Mormons, when challenging Christians about the cross, are trained to say “If Jesus was shot with an AK-47, would you put one on top of your church?”

)

Never heard that one…

Paul, was that an official way Mormons are taught to challenge others?

 

[marywarfield]

Here is an interesting article I found written by
an LDS member after researching the history
of the cross in Mormonism.
His claim is the LDS of the 1800’s did frequently
have and wear crosses but their rejection beginning
in the 1920’s is rooted in their anti Catholicism.

sltrib.com/ci_12256269

 

[LivingWaters7]

LDS don’t directly claim that Catholics or other orthodox Christians worship a dead Christ. You won’t hear a Mormon say “those Catholics worship a dead Christ!”. What you will hear are arguments as to why LDS do not have crosses on top of their churches and temples, or why wearing a cross/crucifix is not part of LDS culture. These arguments are very interesting to read, because they always miss the point, and seem to imply things about those that do have crosses/crucfixes in their places of worship, or wear them, that aren’t true.

One can see this quite clearly by going to mormon.org, and searching “cross”. You will see various members speaking about certain topics (such as whether Mormons are Christians), and address the matter of wearing/having the cross. You will find statements such as these:

**
"A lot of people are confused because we don’t wear a cross or have a cross on our church buildings and temples. The Cross represents Christ’s death. But we know that He lives. And that is what we try to focus on. “The message of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes what happened on the cross, but this message and meaning is within each of us and requires no external symbol to manifest our faith. Our cross is the giving up of worldly sins and following the Savior with a humble heart and an obedient spirit.” (The Meaning of the Cross for Latter-day Saints, July 201 Ensign) "

“We do believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, even though we don’t wear the cross or put it on our chapels. Why don’t we wear the cross? Because the meaning of the cross must be visible in our hearts and congregations, not on our necks or our chapels. From a church leader “This message and meaning is within each of us and requires no external symbol to manifest our faith. Our cross is the giving up of worldly sins and following the Savior with a humble heart and an obedient spirit.” Schwitzer, Gregory A., 2011, Ensign, Vol. 41, No. 7, Pg. 28 We can’t hide behind the symbol of the cross, risking our souls by masking our sins. We have to exhibit the meaning of the cross in who we are. If someone sees me walking down the street, they need to be able to say, “He’s a Christian”, not because of the necklace I wear but because of the kindness I extend to others. Schwitzer continues, “We are Christians in the true inward sense, and we display Christ to the world through our lives, our message, and our love rather than through a symbol whereby we are identified.” Pg. 28”

“While we do not have crosses on our churches or temples, or wear crosses around our necks, it does not mean we don’t believe in Jesus Christ. We do this because we focus on the fact that He does live again. He lives to help us, love us, and remind us that we are someone special who He wants to return to live with Him again.”

“Attending one of our church services, a non-Mormon may be surprised to see no Cross on display in our meeting houses, as is seen in many other churches. This has caused some to mistakenly believe we are not Christian. This lack of prominent cross display is because we want to avoid, with all possible fervor, ever being in danger of worshiping the cross itself, rather than the one who was crucified on that cross. We believe worshiping the cross, would be a form of idol worship, a sin. We do not worship a dead or dying Christ. In stead we worship a living, vibrant, resurrected, powerful, and loving Son of the Living God, the Savior of the world; the creator of the entire universe. We strive to do all things in His name.”
**

 

[LivingWaters7]

What is interesting is thinking about the “other side” of what they’re saying (i.e. the implications). For those of us that wear crosses/crucifixes, and have them in our worship spaces, we know that all of these implications are false. We don’t worship the cross (idolatry). We don’t focus only on the crucified Christ (we recognize the importance of both the crucifixion and the resurrection, and have images of both in our churches, cathedrals, basilicas, etc. Indeed, the Mass itself is a celebration of the resurrection). There is no “either/or” of carrying the message of the cross inside ourselves and wearing the symbol.

My point is that I find arguments as to why LDS don’t wear crosses or have them in/on their houses of worship unconvincing. The best argument I’ve seen is by FAIR:

"Latter-day Saints have no objection to the symbol of the cross. Historically, the Church’s earliest members were not from denominations or traditions who used the cross in their worship. When they joined the Church, these traditions continued with them. Isolation in Utah meant that the Saints were not much affected by the increased use of the cross by American protestants later in the century. "

I haven’t looked into the matter to confirm that, but that does make more sense than the typical arguments given. But then the answer goes on to say this:

**"Of this question, Elder Marvin J. Ashton of the Twelve said:

Why don't you have crosses on your buildings of worship? Why aren't your chapels built in the shape of a cross? Why don't you encourage your people to wear and display crosses? What is the Church's policy toward crosses? From Matthew 16:24-25: 

    Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 
    For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 

We in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in response to these questions, try to teach our people to carry their crosses rather than display or wear them."**

en.fairmormon.org/Jesus_Christ/Accusations_that_Mormons_aren%27t_Christians/Does_the_Church_use_the_sign_or_symbol_of_the_cross

Again, it isn’t an either/or. Catholics are taught to carry our crosses, and we recognize the power in the physical image, and the personal meaning of wearing a cross/crucifix. Looking at a crucifix, or any other sacred image, helps make the reality of the events depicted that much more apparent, at least for many of us.

 

[marywarfield]

Seriously Paul?

I must have missed that week in priesthood meeting.

If one of your loved ones was killed in a car accident, would you wear a car around your neck to remember them?”
mormonmatters.org/2009/01/30/are-we-cross-at-the-cross/

 

[Marie5890]

If I recall correctly, wont the LDS Rome temple have a cross on it’s doors?
Also, if I recall correctly, the original symbol for Christians wasnt a cross but in the ancient communities, a fish?

 

[Mike_Reed]

The best argument I’ve seen is by FAIR:

"Latter-day Saints have no objection to the symbol of the cross. Historically, the Church’s earliest members were not from denominations or traditions who used the cross in their worship. When they joined the Church, these traditions continued with them. Isolation in Utah meant that the Saints were not much affected by the increased use of the cross by American protestants later in the century. "

I haven’t looked into the matter to confirm that, but that does make more sense than the typical arguments given.

This FAIR entry still needs to be revised. I published my book on this, an expanded revision of my MA Thesis (marywarfield’s link above leads to a SL Tribune article that ran a story on my research), a year and a half ago. It is true that mainstream American protestants rejected the symbol of the cross when Mormonism was in its early stages of development, but it is not true that early Mormons therefore rejected the symbol. My research shows that the cross taboo was instead a rather late development in Mormon history, emerging at the grass roots around the turn of the 20th century, and was institutionalized in 1957 on grounds that it was a “catholic form of worship.” Prior to this, many Mormons (including Church authorities) embraced and promoted the symbol of the cross. If you are interested, my book’s title is “Banishing the Cross: The Emergence of a Mormon Taboo” and can be previewed on Amazon.