Mormons: Do you have windows in your churches?

[dianaiad]

I was LDS and now Catholic. There is no theological reason for this.

Not everything has some hidden, satanic reason.

That’s true. (grin) But I’ll bet we see this one floating around on the internet somewhere…

I wonder; could we invent a theological reason? Might be fun. Frankly, though I understand the practicalities of our building designs, I have to admit that the buildings can be very boring. Couldn’t we come up with a proper theological purpose behind the fact that there are never enough choir seats, or that the color selection for the fuzzy walls (I know, I know, acoustics again) is so incredibly dull?

And WHO came up with the design for pews, anyway?

Or why is the notice board with the little cardboard numbers so that you can post the hymn selections always TOO HIGH? (…and I’m not short. They are still too high. inevitably I have to ask some athletic 12 year old who can climb on chairs to post those things.)

Ok, I’m done now.

 

[Eliza10]

Thank you all for making a sincere attempt to answer my question. Dianaiad, your description of the layout of the churches is just like the one I saw. The impression that was most lasting on my mind was the windowlessness of the main worship area. It was particularly brought to mind when I then looked through some official LDS literature that was given me, and they had a picture of a family recieving communion in church, and the worship area looked very much like the one I was in. Windowless.

I am sure it is an efficient way to use the space, but that *cannot *be the only reason because if it was uniquely and specially efficient then other non-LDS churches and societies would be copying that style. But that is not the case.

That the LDS’ are prudent in their financial practices is commendable, and also that they are good stewarts is evident and commendable.

Dianaiad, your article linked was interesting but seems to point to a few older style churches that were built in reaction to society’s impressions of Mormons. Much like when we build Protestant-style Catholic Church buildings not for a theological reason but instead in reaction to Protestant criticism. The LDS architecture in those few mentioned is not a style that endured. It seems to me they were deviating from the norm - the norm that is represented in the Tabernacle and in the older-style LDS chapel above, and in those LDS chapels that I saw and you describe.

But the following gives me a guess at the theological reason:

…The style of building you are questioning (larger meeting areas in the center, windowed classrooms on the outside) is VERY earthquake resistant, and is, for that matter, also hurricane resistant and tornado resistant; local LDS churches are often recommended as shelters. …

Perhaps like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who design their windowless fortress-like Kingdom Halls to be a shelter in the End Times, that is the theological reason behind the LDS design too. It fits with the food storage theme.

Again, I am not criticizing, only trying to understand the motivation and reason.

 

[Religio71]

That’s true. (grin) But I’ll bet we see this one floating around on the internet somewhere…

I wonder; could we invent a theological reason? Might be fun. Frankly, though I understand the practicalities of our building designs, I have to admit that the buildings can be very boring. Couldn’t we come up with a proper theological purpose behind the fact that there are never enough choir seats, or that the color selection for the fuzzy walls (I know, I know, acoustics again) is so incredibly dull?

And WHO came up with the design for pews, anyway?

Or why is the notice board with the little cardboard numbers so that you can post the hymn selections always TOO HIGH? (…and I’m not short. They are still too high. inevitably I have to ask some athletic 12 year old who can climb on chairs to post those things.)

Ok, I’m done now.

Well I don’t know if they told you in Relief Society, but it’s clearly done just in case the temples are all destroyed by the anti-Christ, the ordinances can continue in the meetinghouses, so that the secret, I mean sacred rituals to the occult deities can continue without everyone seeing.

 

[Religio71]

Thank you all for making a sincere attempt to answer my question. Dianaiad, your description of the layout of the churches is just like the one I saw. The impression that was most lasting on my mind was the windowlessness of the main worship area. It was particularly brought to mind when I then looked through some official LDS literature that was given me, and they had a picture of a family recieving communion in church, and the worship area looked very much like the one I was in. Windowless.

I am sure it is an efficient way to use the space, but that *cannot *be the only reason because if it was uniquely and specially efficient then other non-LDS churches and societies would be copying that style. But that is not the case.

That the LDS’ are prudent in their financial practices is commendable, and also that they are good stewarts is evident and commendable.

Dianaiad yiour article linked was interesting but seems to point to a few older style chruches that will built in reaction to societies impressions of Mormons. Like when we build Protestant-style Cathoic Church buildings in reaction to Protestant criticism. The LDS architecture in those few mentioned is not a style that endured. It seems to me they were deviating from the norm, the norm that is representedin the Tabernacle and in the older-style LDS chapel above, and in those LDS chapels that I saw and you describe.

But the following gives me a guess at the theological reason:

Perhaps like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who design their windowless fortress-like Kingdom Hall to be a shelter in the End Times, that is the theological reason behind the LDS design too. It fits with the food storage theme.

Again, I am not criticizing, only trying to understand the motivation and reason.

That is pretty interesting.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Thank you all for making a sincere attempt to answer my question. Dianaiad, your description of the layout of the churches is just like the one I saw. The impression that was most lasting on my mind was the windowlessness of the main worship area. It was particularly brought to mind when I then looked through some official LDS literature that was given me, and they had a picture of a family recieving communion in church, and the worship area looked very much like the one I was in. Windowless.

I am sure it is an efficient way to use the space, but that *cannot *be the only reason because if it was uniquely and specially efficient then other non-LDS churches and societies would be copying that style. But that is not the case.

That the LDS’ are prudent in their financial practices is commendable, and also that they are good stewarts is evident and commendable.

Dianaiad, your article linked was interesting but seems to point to a few older style churches that were built in reaction to society’s impressions of Mormons. Much like when we build Protestant-style Catholic Church buildings not for a theological reason but instead in reaction to Protestant criticism. The LDS architecture in those few mentioned is not a style that endured. It seems to me they were deviating from the norm - the norm that is represented in the Tabernacle and in the older-style LDS chapel above, and in those LDS chapels that I saw and you describe.

But the following gives me a guess at the theological reason:

Perhaps like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who design their windowless fortress-like Kingdom Halls to be a shelter in the End Times, that is the theological reason behind the LDS design too. It fits with the food storage theme.

Again, I am not criticizing, only trying to understand the motivation and reason.

Maybe it’s for privacy. The Catholic church has a long history of leaving it’s doors open so that people could come in a pray at any time. The Mormon church has a long history of being persecuted by others, so maybe they think of it as being a shelter from outsiders. I imagine that Dianaid is right though, it’s more practical, and cheaper to build them that way. Not so beautiful though - I love all the stained glass and the light streaming into my church!

 

[dianaiad]

Thank you all for making a sincere attempt to answer my question. Dianaiad, your description of the layout of the churches is just like the one I saw. The impression that was most lasting on my mind was the windowlessness of the main worship area. It was particularly brought to mind when I then looked through some official LDS literature that was given me, and they had a picture of a family recieving communion in church, and the worship area looked very much like the one I was in. Windowless.

I am sure it is an efficient way to use the space, but that *cannot *be the only reason because if it was uniquely and specially efficient then other non-LDS churches and societies would be copying that style. But that is not the case.

That the LDS’ are prudent in their financial practices is commendable, and also that they are good stewarts is evident and commendable.

Dianaiad, your article linked was interesting but seems to point to a few older style churches that were built in reaction to society’s impressions of Mormons. Much like when we build Protestant-style Catholic Church buildings not for a theological reason but instead in reaction to Protestant criticism. The LDS architecture in those few mentioned is not a style that endured. It seems to me they were deviating from the norm - the norm that is represented in the Tabernacle and in the older-style LDS chapel above, and in those LDS chapels that I saw and you describe.

But the following gives me a guess at the theological reason:

Perhaps like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who design their windowless fortress-like Kingdom Halls to be a shelter in the End Times, that is the theological reason behind the LDS design too. It fits with the food storage theme.

Again, I am not criticizing, only trying to understand the motivation and reason.

Eliza, …

I give up.

If you insist upon looking for a theological reason for this, good luck. One thing, though…we don’t build for the end times anywhere near so much as we prepare for real emergencies that happen every day. Not for the Second Coming, in fact, so much as for the first coming—of Katrina. Of unemployment. Of the neighbor’s house burning down. Of your cousin’s cancer. Of Hurricane Ike. Of the Loma Prieta earthquake.

We are a very practical people, in other words. We began in hardship and prudence, continued in it…supported and helped each other through some very difficult economic times. (shrug) It’s just the way we are. We aren’t Shakers or Amish to hide away from the world, but we do have a rather large urge to self sufficiency–and to provide succor where succor is needed.

So–perhaps that IS a theological reason, if you must have one; to provide shelter from the storms. Not in some far theological future, but real storms with real names.

 

[dianaiad]

Well I don’t know if they told you in Relief Society, but it’s clearly done just in case the temples are all destroyed by the anti-Christ, the ordinances can continue in the meetinghouses, so that the secret, I mean sacred rituals to the occult deities can continue without everyone seeing.

(grin)

OK, that works. You’ll have to finish filling me in on that one, though, because obviously you got a little further up the secret–er, sacred–steps of Relief Society meetings than I did.

 

[dianaiad]

Maybe it’s for privacy. The Catholic church has a long history of leaving it’s doors open so that people could come in a pray at any time. The Mormon church has a long history of being persecuted by others, so maybe they think of it as being a shelter from outsiders. I imagine that Dianaid is right though, it’s more practical, and cheaper to build them that way. Not so beautiful though - I love all the stained glass and the light streaming into my church!

The local Catholic church does not leave its doors unlocked any more if there is no clergy present…and for the same reason we don’t. I am very sad to see both things.

but if we don’t, we both get vandalized. I wish with everything in me that this didn’t happen.

 

[Eliza10]

… the design of our Temples is such that every symbol in it has a theological reason. (most of 'em, anyway…) They are rich in symbology…,

But that is not true of our meeting houses. Those are very workaday buildings, quite literally…"
Sorry that the answer is that boring, though…

Not boring. Your description of the workaday buildings is consistent with what I see at my friend’s LDS church. Admirably workaday - a hum of activity, mostly family centered, also faith centered, and church-service and community service-centered. A fine thing to behold. The strong fellowship* there reminds me of what I miss most about my Evangelical church.

So, you are saying the Temples are rich in symbology, with every part of the building having a theological meaning (vs. a purely practical one)… But the local churches which are consistent in their unusual and unique style across time and space, have NO meaning at all for their unique, unusual and consistent architecture except purely practical and non-religious ones. (Including to meet building codes of California?) Even though no one else has ever recognized this unique and unusual style and copied it for their church, for its “obvious” practical design. This doesn’t match up and leaves me feeling again there is certainly a theological/ideological reason.

But as I already alluded to in a previous post, I think I have the reason. I think its along the lines of the reason why the Kingdom Halls design their buildings like they do, which I just happened to include images of when I was trying to demonstrate what I meant by particularly unusual architectural styles. Must have been my guardian angel showing me the answer to my own question. I am hoping that a Mormon here would verify my theory but its apparently not something that is taught at the local church level.

---

…http://myagape4u.com/images/monstrance-sm.jpg

Religio, you would be interested in this, its about that fine fellowship: I was telling a favorite priest how I miss that fellowship and he said, "They have* to have fellowship - they have to have something. Look at what they don’t have." That’s the Real Presence, of course. Worth giving up lovely fellowship for.

---

…http://d1kn32quvsf7z3.cloudfront.net/images/G_bdayJunePearl.png
The Catholic Church: The Pearl of Great Price.

 

[Eliza10]

The local Catholic church does not leave its doors unlocked any more if there is no clergy present…and for the same reason we don’t. I am very sad to see both things.

but if we don’t, we both get vandalized. I wish with everything in me that this didn’t happen.

Its true that many, or maybe most local Catholic Churches don’t, but many still do, particularly those that have Eucharistic Adoration, where someone is always there. I know of one Catholic Church in my area (that uses security cameras) that has its doors always open even though Adoration is not extensive in its hours. I’ve been there at 2am! Candles flickering in the dark as the roof creaks. Empty but for Jesus, me and the Angels and Saints adoring.
.
…http://www.giovanietradizione.org/img/sacramento.jpg

 

[Eliza10]

I like this one too:

 

[Religio71]

Not boring. Your description of the workaday buildings is consistent with what I see at my friend’s LDS church. Admirably workaday - a hum of activity, mostly family centered, also faith centered, and church-service and community service-centered. A fine thing to behold. The strong fellowship* there reminds me of what I miss most about my Evangelical church.

So, you are saying the Temples are rich in symbology, with every part of the building having a theological meaning (vs. a purely practical one)… But the local churches which are consistent in their unusual and unique style across time and space, have NO meaning at all for their unique, unusual and consistent architecture except purely practical and non-religious ones. (Including to meet building codes of California?) Even though no one else has ever recognized this unique and unusual style and copied it for their church, for its “obvious” practical design. This doesn’t match up and leaves me feeling again there is certainly a theological/ideological reason.

But as I already alluded to in a previous post, I think I have the reason. I think its along the lines of the reason why the Kingdom Halls design their buildings like they do, which I just happened to include images of when I was trying to demonstrate what I meant by particularly unusual architectural styles. Must have been my guardian angel showing me the answer to my own question. I am hoping that a Mormon here would verify my theory but its apparently not something that is taught at the local church level.

---

…http://myagape4u.com/images/monstrance-sm.jpg

Religio, you would be interested in this, its about that fine fellowship: I was telling a favorite priest how I miss that fellowship and he said, "They have* to have fellowship - they have to have something. Look at what they don’t have." That’s the Real Presence, of course. Worth giving up lovely fellowship for.

---

…http://d1kn32quvsf7z3.cloudfront.net/images/G_bdayJunePearl.png
The Catholic Church: The Pearl of Great Price.

Yes, the one thing I really miss from being LDS is the fellowship. There are so many opportunities, in all wards (parishes) for fellowship. There is Scripture study for all ages, every week. Now, many Catholic parishes have fellowship opportunities, and Bible study, but it is no where near ubiquitous as in the LDS Church. Many people go to Mass, and disappear after (sometimes after taking communion or during the Recessional! I hate when people leave before the recessional hymn is over ). There is frequently Sunday School for children and young adults, and a Youth Group, but nothing for those of us 21+. I guess it depends on the parish and how large it is.

 

[Eliza10]

Yes, the one thing I really miss from being LDS is the fellowship. There are so many opportunities, in all wards (parishes) for fellowship. There is Scripture study for all ages, every week. Now, many Catholic parishes have fellowship opportunities, and Bible study, but it is no where near ubiquitous as in the LDS Church. Many people go to Mass, and disappear after (sometimes after taking communion or during the Recessional! I hate when people leave before the recessional hymn is over ). There is frequently Sunday School for children and young adults, and a Youth Group, but nothing for those of us 21+. I guess it depends on the parish and how large it is.

May the above Monstrance picture inspire you. I truly share your feeling of loss for the fellowship. I think that the fellowship we miss is a love that can be described as a “natural” love, whereas the love for Our Lord is a “supernatural” love. Giving up a natural love is a real loss, but we cannot out-give God. True growth can be painful. I think we are being forced to choose the “better part”; learning to replace natural love with supernatural love. It is not a growth that comes easily. But it is a love that is more sure and more eternal and it is the “better part” that God, in His love, wants for us. It is the everlasting pearl of great price.

 

[zerinus]

Maybe it’s for privacy. The Catholic church has a long history of leaving it’s doors open so that people could come in a pray at any time. The Mormon church has a long history of being persecuted by others, so maybe they think of it as being a shelter from outsiders. I imagine that Dianaid is right though, it’s more practical, and cheaper to build them that way. Not so beautiful though - I love all the stained glass and the light streaming into my church!

Hi Christine, good to see you around. It simply isn’t true that Mormon churches don’t have windows. All the churches that I have ever been to have had plenty of windows. But their architecture varies; and as someone has pointed out, in some of them the actual chapel area is enclosed within the structure of the building, with the classrooms and offices surrounding it, so that the chapel area itself cannot have windows to the outside on most adjacent walls. But the building as a whole always has plenty of windows. People like ask some idiotic questions about the Mormons sometimes.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Hi Christine, good to see you around. It simply isn’t true that Mormon churches don’t have windows. All the churches that I have ever been to have had plenty of windows. But their architecture varies; and as someone has pointed out, in some of them the actual chapel area is enclosed within the structure of the building, with the classrooms and offices surrounding it, so that the chapel area itself cannot have windows to the outside on most adjacent walls. But the building as a whole always has plenty of windows. People like ask some idiotic questions about the Mormons sometimes.

Hi Zerinus - Well, I’m glad to know you have windows! Do you have stained glass windows?

 

[zerinus]

Hi Zerinus - Well, I’m glad to know you have windows! Do you have stained glass windows?

A few of them certainly do! But it is not very common I suppose because they are expensive to produce. A couple of famous Mormon stained glass windows depict the story of Joseph smith’s First Vision and the visitation by the angel Moroni. Here are a couple of links:

flickr.com/photos/83372564@N00/3699664012
sacred-texts.com/mor/hou/index.htm

 

[Eliza10]

… But the building as a whole always has plenty of windows. People like ask some idiotic questions about the Mormons sometimes.

I wonder why you think its an idiotic question?

I included pictures so you could see that the worship area of what seems to be the majority of local Mormon Churches. Apparently they take after the Mormon Tabernacle and they are windowless in their worship spaces.

When I visited my friend’s LDS Church, somethings seemed odd and different to me, and when I saw the picture in some official LDS literature of a similar local LDS church that also had no windows in the area of worship, I realized that was part of what seemed so odd. Because its really, really different. Its unique to Mormon Churches. I don’t think its idiotic to wonder why.

(I had tried to find an image of a local LDS church interior on the official LDS site, but on the official site there are no pictures of church interiors at all. And church interior walls are missing from pictures like this one where you would otherwise be able to see. So I searched Google Images to show what I meant).lds.org/images/featuredreading/features_photo_34547.jpg

I suppose if you have been to mostly only Mormon Churches, and been all your life, that is what seems normal to you. But if you have attended and visited many, many other churches in your life and NEVER seen ANYTHING like this EXCEPT in the Mormon church, you’d wonder why too. The only closest thing I have ever seen is pictures of the Kingdom Hall exteriors, so I included those. Kingdom Hall exteriors always seemed odd to me, but if you are Jehovah’s Witnesses its common knowledge why this is so for the architecture. So since it was so unusual, I asked. I don’t see why its idiotic to ask.

---

Heavenly:

…Heavenly:http://www.miraclerosarymission.org/stpje.jpg

 

[CHRISTINE77]

A few of them certainly do! But it is not very common I suppose because they are expensive to produce. A couple of famous Mormon stained glass windows depict the story of Joseph smith’s First Vision and the visitation by the angel Moroni. Here are a couple of links:

flickr.com/photos/83372564@N00/3699664012
sacred-texts.com/mor/hou/index.htm

Thanks, the second link is especially interesting, I will enjoy reading it!

 

[zerinus]

Thanks, the second link is especially interesting, I will enjoy reading it!

I haven’t read that book, but I agree, it does sound very interesting. And Amazon seems to be selling it for just $3.00! Sounds like a good buy to me.

 

[dianaiad]

Not boring. Your description of the workaday buildings is consistent with what I see at my friend’s LDS church. Admirably workaday - a hum of activity, mostly family centered, also faith centered, and church-service and community service-centered. A fine thing to behold. The strong fellowship* there reminds me of what I miss most about my Evangelical church.

So, you are saying the Temples are rich in symbology, with every part of the building having a theological meaning (vs. a purely practical one)… But the local churches which are consistent in their unusual and unique style across time and space, have NO meaning at all for their unique, unusual and consistent architecture except purely practical and non-religious ones. (Including to meet building codes of California?) Even though no one else has ever recognized this unique and unusual style and copied it for their church, for its “obvious” practical design. This doesn’t match up and leaves me feeling again there is certainly a theological/ideological reason.

But as I already alluded to in a previous post, I think I have the reason. I think its along the lines of the reason why the Kingdom Halls design their buildings like they do, which I just happened to include images of when I was trying to demonstrate what I meant by particularly unusual architectural styles. Must have been my guardian angel showing me the answer to my own question. I am hoping that a Mormon here would verify my theory but its apparently not something that is taught at the local church level.

Well, far be it from me to screw with a perfectly lovely conspiracy theory. By the way, here in California I find that the LDS and the Baptists build very much the same way. Most other churches follow suit…those that haven’t rehabbed old shopping centers to turn them into Christian churches/schools, that is.

I wonder; I see so many evangelical churches out here doing that. I wonder what deep theological reason there is for their habit of taking old grocerystore strip malls and turning them into churches and schools?

I mean, there must be some deep theological reason for that. They are churches, after all.

Diana, utterly delighted with this entire thing. it’s not often that one gets to see the beginnings of a rumor this fun…