Mormons don't believe the teachings of Paul?

[RebeccaJ]

I thought I knew what Mormons believed fairly well. I mean, it changes over time and depending you speak with, but I’m pretty good at keeping up I think.

Recently a Mormon told me that he didn’t believe everything that Paul taught. I was so floored I didn’t even ask him what, specifically. Doubt or not understanding a teaching, I get. But outright disbelief, as in Paul was in error?

Is this the stance of Mormonism or did I just come across some weirder form of Mormon?

 

[ABostonCatholic]

You live in SLC. I’m sure there are plenty of other Mormons running around you can ask about that.

But my initial reaction was:

1. This person is a dissident, just like we see in the Catholic Church, and was speaking his own opinion not that of his church
2. He was referring to Paul’s letters not being “properly translated.”
3. He is confused about accepting the Bible only as “properly translated” and thinks it means that some of the things Paul said are not true.

Againj, ask more Mormons

 

[RebeccaJ]

You live in SLC. I’m sure there are plenty of other Mormons running around you can ask about that.

But my initial reaction was:

1. This person is a dissident, just like we see in the Catholic Church, and was speaking his own opinion not that of his church
2. He was referring to Paul’s letters not being “properly translated.”
3. He is confused about accepting the Bible only as “properly translated” and thinks it means that some of the things Paul said are not true.

Againj, ask more Mormons

He said these things in a room full of other mormons,and no one corrected him, so I was really surprised at that as well.

His words were that he “doesn’t believe a lot things that Paul has to say”. And accused me of putting Paul above God because I DO believe what he says.

Whatever. I’ll just let it go.

 

[BartBurk]

I thought I knew what Mormons believed fairly well. I mean, it changes over time and depending you speak with, but I’m pretty good at keeping up I think.

Recently a Mormon told me that he didn’t believe everything that Paul taught. I was so floored I didn’t even ask him what, specifically. Doubt or not understanding a teaching, I get. But outright disbelief, as in Paul was in error?

Is this the stance of Mormonism or did I just come across some weirder form of Mormon?

Mormons pretty much believe you are saved by your works so they have trouble with quite a few of Paul’s teachings. Grace is secondary in importance to Mormons.

 

[PaulDupre]

The Mormon reliance on works for salvation has its foundation in the Book of Mormon:

For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. (2 Nephi 25:23, my italics)

Paul

 

[ABostonCatholic]

He said these things in a room full of other mormons,and no one corrected him, so I was really surprised at that as well.

His words were that he “doesn’t believe a lot things that Paul has to say”. And accused me of putting Paul above God because I DO believe what he says.

Whatever. I’ll just let it go.

Weird.

 

[BartBurk]

Weird.

I wonder how many Protestants would declare that we Catholics don’t believe the teachings of Paul. My guess would be quite a few.

I don’t think there are many Mormons who would really say they don’t believe in the teachings of Paul. They would just claim that orthodox Christianity misinterprets the teachings of Paul. I would certainly claim that many Protestants misinterpret the teachings of Paul. It’s also probably true that when most Mormons are thinking about how “orthodox” Christianity interprets Paul, they are thinking about how Evangelical Protestants interpret Paul. Most Mormons think Catholics are banned from reading Paul.

 

[JDHallKY]

Since you live in Utah, I’m sure you get BYU-TV. I get that on Dish Network and sometimes check out their religious programming (I’ve studied the Mormon faith for years), in particular their scripture discussion shows. I’ve watched shows discussing the Old Testament and Book of Mormon, but I have never caught an episode of New Testament discussions (though I’m sure they have such a series).

Anyway, I have seen the panelists on these shows quote Paul’s letters on several occasions to support whatever point they were making at the time. They no doubt believe that his writings have been corrupted, but they still consider them Scripture, insofar as they are tranlated and preserved accurately, which is the same view they apply to the entire Bible.

BTW, there are MANY Catholic dissidents who reject Paul, usually focusing on a misreading of his teaching about wives submitting to their husbands, etc. Or, they don’t like that he condemns homosexuality. I’m sure there are some cafeteria Mormons out there, though they are certainly more rare than the Catholic variety.

 

[zerinus]

You live in SLC. I’m sure there are plenty of other Mormons running around you can ask about that.

But my initial reaction was:

1. This person is a dissident, just like we see in the Catholic Church, and was speaking his own opinion not that of his church
2. He was referring to Paul’s letters not being “properly translated.”
3. He is confused about accepting the Bible only as “properly translated” and thinks it means that some of the things Paul said are not true.

Againj, ask more Mormons

Since you live in Utah, I’m sure you get BYU-TV. I get that on Dish Network and sometimes check out their religious programming (I’ve studied the Mormon faith for years), in particular their scripture discussion shows. I’ve watched shows discussing the Old Testament and Book of Mormon, but I have never caught an episode of New Testament discussions (though I’m sure they have such a series).

Anyway, I have seen the panelists on these shows quote Paul’s letters on several occasions to support whatever point they were making at the time. They no doubt believe that his writings have been corrupted, but they still consider them Scripture, insofar as they are tranlated and preserved accurately, which is the same view they apply to the entire Bible.

BTW, there are MANY Catholic dissidents who reject Paul, usually focusing on a misreading of his teaching about wives submitting to their husbands, etc. Or, they don’t like that he condemns homosexuality. I’m sure there are some cafeteria Mormons out there, though they are certainly more rare than the Catholic variety.

Thank you for your intelligent comments. LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine lessons alternate each year between each of the four volumes of the standard works of the Church: the OT, NT, BoM, and D&C+PoGP. During this past year that ends in December, the lessons were based on the NT. As the lessons follow roughly (though not strictly) the consecutive order of the books, the lessons during the past few weeks have been based mainly on the writings of St Paul. I had the opportunity of actually teaching some of them, because our regular teacher was absent a few times, and I was asked to fill in for her. The lesson outlines in the teachers’ manual for these lessons are visible online at the Church’s website, and can be seen by anyone. The lessons which were partially or totally based on the teachings or actions of Paul are lessons 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, and 41, The total number of lessons in the manual are 46. That means that one quarter to one fifth of the lessons are based on the teachings or actions of St Paul!

These lessons are intended for the adult members of the Church and older youth. All the adult, active members that go to Church every Sunday are required to attend these lessons. If you study these lesson outlines carefully, that will give you a good idea of what LDS think of the teachings of Paul.

zerinus

 

[Paul_G]

I thought I knew what Mormons believed fairly well. I mean, it changes over time and depending you speak with, but I’m pretty good at keeping up I think.

Recently a Mormon told me that he didn’t believe everything that Paul taught. I was so floored I didn’t even ask him what, specifically. Doubt or not understanding a teaching, I get. But outright disbelief, as in Paul was in error?

Is this the stance of Mormonism or did I just come across some weirder form of Mormon?

This person is entitled to believe as he/she wants, as diversity of ideas is tolerated within the Church. I personally enjoy reading and listening (which I am currently doing while driving this week) to Paul’s letters. What I don’t believe are some of the interpretations by the so called Orthodox churches as to what they believe he is teaching.

Paul

 

[RebeccaJ]

This person is entitled to believe as he/she wants, as diversity of ideas is tolerated within the Church. I personally enjoy reading and listening (which I am currently doing while driving this week) to Paul’s letters. What I don’t believe are some of the interpretations by the so called Orthodox churches as to what they believe he is teaching.

Paul

I enjoy Paul’s letters too.

I know some mormons like to graze the religious/spiritual world, picking up this and that as long as it fits into their idea of mormonism. And I know even the way out there weird stuff like my seminary teachers used to teach me is accepted.

But the comment that I make Paul a God really threw me. Like he was saying that just because I believe what Paul writes are scriptures, that I think Paul is a God. I think he was trying to insult me just for the sake of being insulting.

Also, he said something about just because it was in the Bible doesn’t make it scripture. Honestly, the guy gave me the creeps. I’m thinking I’ll just avoid him from now on.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

This person is entitled to believe as he/she wants, as diversity of ideas is tolerated within the Church.

And thus mormons have plurality of wives in some parts of the Southwest;

thus many think they will be gods on their own planets;

thus God is just one of many gods;

thus Jesus and Satan are brothers;

thus the BoM can be “clarified” ad infinitum to make it more compatible to mainstream Christianity.

Hey Paul,

One more question. Why do mormons hijack the Franciscan ‘nativity scene’ for their Christmas season (not in the Bible, BUT a Catholic tradition) displays?

Or did I miss the references to it in the sermons of Brigham Young?

Robert

 

[RebeccaJ]

And thus mormons have plurality of wives in some parts of the Southwest;

thus many think they will be gods on their own planets;

thus God is just one of many gods;

thus Jesus and Satan are brothers;

thus the BoM can be “clarified” ad infinitum to make it more compatible to mainstream Christianity.

Hey Paul,

One more question. Why do mormons hijack the Franciscan ‘nativity scene’ for their Christmas season (not in the Bible, BUT a Catholic tradition) displays?

Or did I miss the references to it in the sermons of Brigham Young?

Robert

Yeah well, this was part of our conversation. This guy was trying to show me how belief in multiple gods is Biblical. And jeez, every Bible passage he was extracting out was out of context, and actually describing pagan beliefs. I had never seen anything like it in my life. It was like every Bible passage he ever read he was reading it upside down.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Rebecca;

I used to have fun with my non-Catholic friends in college by quoting Shakespeare to support the recent theories that Shakespeare didn’t write Shakespeare.

Of course, the humor and irony was lost on some of them.

I think the initial problem to clear up with ANYONE who claims the Bible to be the SOLE AUTHORITY on what is a Christian; how to be a Christian, and; what to believe as a Christian, is this:

Where in the Bible (should be in the NT!) are these claims made?

Whenever my mormon friends want to discuss ‘religion’ (almost every time we see one another!!) after a few minutes of asking questions (repeating them, actually) and getting NO answers, some of them (Bob, Ward and Justin -if you’re out there!) will come back with “Well, basically we all believe the same things, right?”

Of course, the answer is no but that is not what they ‘believe.’

Robert

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca;

I used to have fun with my non-Catholic friends in college by quoting Shakespeare to support the recent theories that Shakespeare didn’t write Shakespeare.

Of course, the humor and irony was lost on some of them.

I think the initial problem to clear up with ANYONE who claims the Bible to be the SOLE AUTHORITY on what is a Christian; how to be a Christian, and; what to believe as a Christian, is this:

Where in the Bible (should be in the NT!) are these claims made?

Whenever my mormon friends want to discuss ‘religion’ (almost every time we see one another!!) after a few minutes of asking questions (repeating them, actually) and getting NO answers, some of them (Bob, Ward and Justin -if you’re out there!) will come back with “Well, basically we all believe the same things, right?”

Of course, the answer is no but that is not what they ‘believe.’

Robert

Mormons certainly don’t believe that the Bible is the sole authority on what a Christian is. I think this guy’s image of Christianity though is that everyone uses the Bible alone, and so he works extra hard at finding Biblical passages to support mormonism. Reading things upside down and out of context and somehow he thinks this makes sense to anyone but himself.

When he pulled out “queen of the heavens” from Jeremy to show as proof of a mother in heaven, as in God’s Wife, that was it for me. He totally left the part out were God is clearly saying to knock it off with the paganism already.



Of course it isn’t possible to support mormonism with the Bible alone. You have to have extra scriptures to be able to do that.

 

[Paul_G]

And thus mormons have plurality of wives in some parts of the Southwest;

thus many think they will be gods on their own planets;

thus God is just one of many gods;

thus Jesus and Satan are brothers;

thus the BoM can be “clarified” ad infinitum to make it more compatible to mainstream Christianity.

The only way I can connect these remarks to the comment I made to RebaccaJ is that they are very similar in quality to those of the person she has problems with. I must agree with her about this person, that his/her comments where inappropriate, to me they appear quite boorish and are conversation enders.

Hey Paul,

One more question. Why do mormons hijack the Franciscan ‘nativity scene’ for their Christmas season (not in the Bible, BUT a Catholic tradition) displays?

I guess for the same reason you may have a Christmas tree.

Or did I miss the references to it in the sermons of Brigham Young?

Robert

I don’t know, maybe you should read them again and and get back to me.

 

[paarsurrey]

Mormons don’t believe the teachings of Paul?

Hi

If they the Mormons) believe in the teachings of Jesus and teachings of the other truthful Prophets it is quite OK, I think. After all Paul deviated from the teachings of Jesus and OTBible.

Thanks

 

[Paul_G]

Of course it isn’t possible to support mormonism with the Bible alone.

I think the Bible does a good job in teaching one how to be a Christian so does the Book of Mormon

You have to have extra scriptures to be able to do that.

If additional information has been given it goes without saying that there will be an addition to the existing scripture

Paul

 

[RebeccaJ]

I think the Bible does a good job in teaching one how to be a Christian so does the Book of Mormon

If additional information has been given it goes without saying that there will be an addition to the existing scripture

Paul

[65](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/65.htm’) "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on *Hebrews *1:1-2:

In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.
27 There will be no further Revelation
[66](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/66.htm’) "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

[67](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/67.htm’) Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

The only way I can connect these remarks to the comment I made to RebaccaJ is that they are very similar in quality to those of the person she has problems with. I must agree with her about this person, that his/her comments where inappropriate, to me they appear quite boorish and are conversation enders.

No, Paul, these are mormon beliefs. If they are boorish, then consider the sources (BoM, King Follett Sermon, D&C, Pearl of Great Price, etc.)

It is NEVER inappropriate to discuss what a sect believes. If the adherents of that sect deny it, then that is called ‘hypocrisy.’

I guess for the same reason you may have a Christmas tree.

What for? As if you would answer a direct question about Mormon belief?

The surest answer AGAINST false and heretical teaching is the reading of those false and heretical documents.

I’ve read them. It’s a shame you haven’t.

Go in peace

Robert