Mormons & End Times

[Marie5890]

To re-phrase my question: what are “orders”? Like really basic definition.

For example, when you hear of nuns or sisters, friars, monks etc etc, These are all men and women who are part of religious orders (religious communities)

Our present day Holy Father, Pope Francis, is a Jesuit (AKA The Society of Jesus) As a Jesuit, he has made perpetual vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience, and for Jesuits, who make one more, obedience to the Pope.

But most priests are not part of religious orders (communities). They are what as known as “secular priests” or “diocesian priests” which means simply they are not a part of a religious order (community)

These secular priests make promises (and those are different from vows) of obedience to their bishop and of chastity. They do not make a promise of poverty

 

[Marie5890]

By saving ordinaces aren’t you already saved by baptism? Also for endowments she mentioned that someone prays over you and gives you spiritual gifts I guess influenced by the Holy Spirit? Catholic/Christians already have spiritual gifts when we accept Christ and receive the Holy Spirit ie the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit.

For Mormons, baptism is considered the first saving ordinance.

lds.org/topics/baptism?lang=eng

Here is a link that explains why they view temple ordinance vital, from the LDS church official website

lds.org/youth/learn/yw/ordinances-covenants/temple?lang=eng

 

[LivingWaters7]

By saving ordinaces aren’t you already saved by baptism? Also for endowments she mentioned that someone prays over you and gives you spiritual gifts I guess influenced by the Holy Spirit? Catholic/Christians already have spiritual gifts when we accept Christ and receive the Holy Spirit ie the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit.

LDS believe that baptism is the first saving ordinance received. It is the “gate”. To receive exaltation, one must receive the other saving ordinances.

The temple Endowment involves multiple things. It begins with an “initiatory” washing and anointing, where the patron is symbolically washed and anointed (the temple worker puts water and oil on the head and pronounces blessings). They then receive authorization to wear the temple garment (a white undergarment), as well as a new name. After this, the endowment proper occurs. You sit in an instructional room, men on one side, women on another. You watch the “presentation” of the Endowment, which in most temples is done through a film (a video is shown). It shows the LDS understanding of the creation, the Fall, etc. At certain points during the endowment, patrons will put on various sacred clothing, such as robes and green aprons. Also, they will make various covenants, and learn various signs and tokens that are never to be revealed outside of the temple. There is a prayer circle, where some patrons will stand around an altar and essentially say what Catholics would term an intercessory prayer. Finally, the endowment ends with patrons approaching a veil, they present the tokens that they learned, pass through the veil, and enter the Celestial Room, which symbolizes the presence of God. In that room they will meditate and pray, and there may be scriptures available to read. That is essentially what the Endowment involves.

 

[jane_doe]

Here is a simple definition from dictionary.com

“In Christianity, a group of men or women who live under religious vows. The three vows commonly taken are to relinquish all possessions and personal authority (vows of poverty and obedience) and not to engage in sexual relations (a vow of chastity).”

Here is another link that explains different types of orders and function (active or contemplative). I just learned the different functions its a helpful link.

religious-vocation.com/differences_religious_orders.html#.VQOt_xj3arU

So in other words, there’s different breeds of nun/monks? (pardon the stupid question, I just had no idea.)

 

[jane_doe]

By saving ordinaces aren’t you already saved by baptism? Also for endowments she mentioned that someone prays over you and gives you spiritual gifts I guess influenced by the Holy Spirit? Catholic/Christians already have spiritual gifts when we accept Christ and receive the Holy Spirit ie the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Mormons don’t view being saved a one-time vent like getting a measles shot. Rather, being saved is a relationship with God, and life-long process of trying to be more like Christ. Baptism is one of the step along the way (an essential one, but still one step)

 

[Marie5890]

So in other words, there’s different breeds of nun/monks? (pardon the stupid question, I just had no idea.)

There are different communities (orders) yes.

And a bit of trivia that is more in weeds…

All nuns are sisters, but not all sisters are nuns. Most people use those terms interchangibly, but they are not the same thing.

Nuns are cloistered (tucked away from society) in convents/monestary and are what is known as contemplative (meanings much of their day is spent in prayer. The same with monks.

Sisters, on the other hand, are the ones you will see teaching and serving in hospitals etc etc. They are not cloistered

 

[jane_doe]

There are different communities (orders) yes.

And a bit of trivia that is more in weeds…

All nuns are sisters, but not all sisters are nuns. Most people use those terms interchangibly, but they are not the same thing.

Nuns are cloistered (tucked away from society) in convents/monestary and are what is known as contemplative (meanings much of their day is spent in prayer. The same with monks.

Sisters, on the other hand, are the ones you will see teaching and serving in hospitals etc etc. They are not cloistered

Interesting. What’s the difference between the orders? Why would you pick to join one or the other?

 

[Marie5890]

Interesting. What’s the difference between the orders? Why would you pick to join one or the other?

They have different focuses. For example, Dominicans tend to focus on teaching and education.

Various Fransicans deal with the poor, homeless, needy, single mothers, fathers etc

Mother Teresa of Calcutta’s order, The Sisters of Charity, serve the poorest of the poor around the world.

Other orders would be found in hospitals or nursing homes

It fulfills the Lord’s “what you do unto these, the least of my brothers, you do unto me”

Although many Catholic universities have lost their sense of Catholic identity, many of them come from the Jesuits. (IE Boston University, Georgetown, Fordom)

Most Americans don’t realize it, but the tapestry of Catholicism is deeply woven into American culture, as much as Protestantism is. And much of that is due to the religious orders.

There were Jesuits missions to the Americas.

One of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, “Charles Carroll of Carrollton” was the brother to the first Catholic Bishop in America, John Carroll. He was the first bishop of Baltimore.

AFA joining one, it’s quite a process of discernment. Usually takes about 8 years of training and education. Not only do you, as someone seeking to enter an order, have to discern if it’s a right match for you, the community is discerning if you are a good fit for them. It’s not a given that you will be accepted.

These communities become your family, literally. It comes from the fact of Jesus lived with and was part of His community of 12 (plus other disciples).

Post Vatican II era threw many of the orders in an upheavel. Many of the women’s orders were doing away with the habits that they wore (their outfits) and many were chosing not to live in communities.

There is a shift in that now. Many of the more vibrate and younger orders are wanting to live in communitiy and want to wear the habit again. That want that kind of identity not only as Catholics but also what the identity of their order’s founder (St Francsis for the Franciscans, St Dominic for the Dominicas, St Benedict for the Benedictines. etc)

They are hungering to be counter-cultural in a culture (ours) that is so coming apart at the seams

 

[SteveVH]

They have different focuses. For example, Dominicans tend to focus on teaching and education.

Various Fransicans deal with the poor, homeless, needy, single mothers, fathers etc

Mother Teresa of Calcutta’s order, The Sisters of Charity, serve the poorest of the poor around the world.

Other orders would be found in hospitals or nursing homes

It fulfills the Lord’s “what you do unto these, the least of my brothers, you do unto me”

Although many Catholic universities have lost their sense of Catholic identity, many of them come from the Jesuits. (IE Boston University, Georgetown, Fordom)

Most Americans don’t realize it, but the tapestry of Catholicism is deeply woven into American culture, as much as Protestantism is. And much of that is due to the religious orders.

There were Jesuits missions to the Americas.

One of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, “Charles Carroll of Carrollton” was the brother to the first Catholic Bishop in America, John Carroll. He was the first bishop of Baltimore.

AFA joining one, it’s quite a process of discernment. Usually takes about 8 years of training and education. Not only do you, as someone seeking to enter an order, have to discern if it’s a right match for you, the community is discerning if you are a good fit for them. It’s not a given that you will be accepted.

These communities become your family, literally. It comes from the fact of Jesus lived with and was part of His community of 12 (plus other disciples).

Post Vatican II era threw many of the orders in an upheavel. Many of the women’s orders were doing away with the habits that they wore (their outfits) and many were chosing not to live in communities.

There is a shift in that now. Many of the more vibrate and younger orders are wanting to live in communitiy and want to wear the habit again. That want that kind of identity not only as Catholics but also what the identity of their order’s founder (St Francsis for the Franciscans, St Dominic for the Dominicas, St Benedict for the Benedictines. etc)

They are hungering to be counter-cultural in a culture (ours) that is so coming apart at the seams

Great summation, Marie! I was about to respond to that post and then saw yours. Nothing more to say.

 

[jane_doe]

They have different focuses. For example, Dominicans tend to focus on teaching and education.

Various Fransicans deal with the poor, homeless, needy, single mothers, fathers etc

Mother Teresa of Calcutta’s order, The Sisters of Charity, serve the poorest of the poor around the world.

Other orders would be found in hospitals or nursing homes

It fulfills the Lord’s “what you do unto these, the least of my brothers, you do unto me”

Although many Catholic universities have lost their sense of Catholic identity, many of them come from the Jesuits. (IE Boston University, Georgetown, Fordom)

Most Americans don’t realize it, but the tapestry of Catholicism is deeply woven into American culture, as much as Protestantism is. And much of that is due to the religious orders.

There were Jesuits missions to the Americas.

One of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, “Charles Carroll of Carrollton” was the brother to the first Catholic Bishop in America, John Carroll. He was the first bishop of Baltimore.

AFA joining one, it’s quite a process of discernment. Usually takes about 8 years of training and education. Not only do you, as someone seeking to enter an order, have to discern if it’s a right match for you, the community is discerning if you are a good fit for them. It’s not a given that you will be accepted.

These communities become your family, literally. It comes from the fact of Jesus lived with and was part of His community of 12 (plus other disciples).

Post Vatican II era threw many of the orders in an upheavel. Many of the women’s orders were doing away with the habits that they wore (their outfits) and many were chosing not to live in communities.

There is a shift in that now. Many of the more vibrate and younger orders are wanting to live in communitiy and want to wear the habit again. That want that kind of identity not only as Catholics but also what the identity of their order’s founder (St Francsis for the Franciscans, St Dominic for the Dominicas, St Benedict for the Benedictines. etc)

They are hungering to be counter-cultural in a culture (ours) that is so coming apart at the seams

Very informative, thank you.

Recap: there are differences in the focus in doing between the orders. What about the focus is teaching? Obviously a they all have the same total teachings, but does a “serving the poor” order teach more about serving the poor? Such seems logical, but I’d rather not assume.

 

[Try2BeHumble]

Interesting. What’s the difference between the orders? Why would you pick to join one or the other?

If you are interested Lifetime made a series about becoming a sister, here is the link:
mylifetime.com/shows/the-sisterhood-becoming-nuns

They have a video about the discernment process.

 

[Try2BeHumble]

LDS believe that baptism is the first saving ordinance received. It is the “gate”. To receive exaltation, one must receive the other saving ordinances.

The temple Endowment involves multiple things. It begins with an “initiatory” washing and anointing, where the patron is symbolically washed and anointed (the temple worker puts water and oil on the head and pronounces blessings). They then receive authorization to wear the temple garment (a white undergarment), as well as a new name. After this, the endowment proper occurs. You sit in an instructional room, men on one side, women on another. You watch the “presentation” of the Endowment, which in most temples is done through a film (a video is shown). It shows the LDS understanding of the creation, the Fall, etc. At certain points during the endowment, patrons will put on various sacred clothing, such as robes and green aprons. Also, they will make various covenants, and learn various signs and tokens that are never to be revealed outside of the temple. There is a prayer circle, where some patrons will stand around an altar and essentially say what Catholics would term an intercessory prayer. Finally, the endowment ends with patrons approaching a veil, they present the tokens that they learned, pass through the veil, and enter the Celestial Room, which symbolizes the presence of God. In that room they will meditate and pray, and there may be scriptures available to read. That is essentially what the Endowment involves.

Thank you for this explanation it was very helpful I guess the part that concerns me is the “signs and tokens” it appears to be secretive compared to Catholicism which is more of an open book. Is God only found in the Celestial Room? God is everywhere so I don’t know why he is lited to one room.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Thank you for this explanation it was very helpful I guess the part that concerns me is the “signs and tokens” it appears to be secretive compared to Catholicism which is more of an open book. Is God only found in the Celestial Room? God is everywhere so I don’t know why he is lited to one room.

No, they don’t believe that God is only found in the celestial room. The celestial room is symbolic of heaven. They view the temple endowment as a symbolic progression from creation, the fall, etc. to returning to the presence of God.

 

[zaffiroborant]

So in other words, there’s different breeds of nun/monks? (pardon the stupid question, I just had no idea.)

Really breeds, like dogs why not use the word that was given to you, “orders” it would be more courteous, and doesn’t have the link to animals and eugenics.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Very informative, thank you.

Recap: there are differences in the focus in doing between the orders. What about the focus is teaching? Obviously a they all have the same total teachings, but does a “serving the poor” order teach more about serving the poor? Such seems logical, but I’d rather not assume.

Not sure if this is exactly what you’re asking here, but some orders focus on teaching and they teach in elementary, high schools and colleges.

 

[Marie5890]

Very informative, thank you.

Recap: there are differences in the focus in doing between the orders. What about the focus is teaching? Obviously a they all have the same total teachings, but does a “serving the poor” order teach more about serving the poor? Such seems logical, but I’d rather not assume.

Sorry about that, when I say teaching I mean in schools. Elementary, middle, secondary. They are math, science, English teachers etc etc.

Here is one such community

sistersofmary.org

Here is another community of Franciscan sisters, one of which is the daughter of a friend of mine is going thru the formation process.

franciscansisterstor.org

Each site you will find tabs that explain what their focus is.

 

[jane_doe]

Ok, re-phrasing the question again: I was under the impression that nun/monks/friars spend a part of their time studying God’s words/teachings, both individually and as a group. Does a sister focused more on serving the poor read more scriptures are serving the poor? (Again, it makes sense, but I don’t want to assume).

 

[jane_doe]

Thank you for this explanation it was very helpful I guess the part that concerns me is the “signs and tokens” it appears to be secretive compared to Catholicism which is more of an open book. Is God only found in the Celestial Room? God is everywhere so I don’t know why he is lited to one room.

Mormon teachings:
God is everywhere (not just Celestial Room). As LW7 said, the temple is symbolic of going through life. The Celestial room is at the end, symbolizing Heaven.

Temple rituals are very symbolic (including the “signs and tokens”). What these mean is something to be pondered individually or with close family (in an appropriate venue and time). It’s not something that you should just get all the answers to. Personally, I don’t think that the literal symbols themselves are not that special, but the meaning behind them which is prized for us to understand. Isn’t it that way with all symbols?

 

[Marie5890]

Ok, re-phrasing the question again: I was under the impression that nun/monks/friars spend a part of their time studying God’s words/teachings, both individually and as a group. Does a sister focused more on serving the poor read more scriptures are serving the poor? (Again, it makes sense, but I don’t want to assume).

The first focus of any religious (man or woman) is the Lord and drawing closer to Him. So much of their time is focused on prayer and reading along with serving the poor.

It can best be described by what Mother Teresa said when she as asked about her vocation to serve the poorest of the poor. This is a paraphrase.

“Oh no. I haven’t been called to serve the poor. My calling is to pour out my love on Jesus. It just so happens that I find Him among the poor.”

So yes, how they serve in secondary to their prayer and scripture life. The orders pray what is know as the Divine Office (formerly known as the Liturgy of the Hours) By praying this, they, in part, fulfill the command to pray always. This is a very very old tradition in Catholicism.

All relgious, priests and deacon pray the Divine Office every day.

 

[twf]

Catholicism is not nearly as centralized as Mormonism. Our bishops are in communion with Rome, but Rome rarely gets involved. That is a misconception between Mormonism and Catholicism. People tend to forget that what makes the Pope the Pope is that he is the Bishop of Rome, and not the other way around.

Also, for Catholics, the sacramental life is more than just rituals. It’s an actual bestowal of sanctifying grace. That kind of concept does not exist in Mormonism

For Mormons, SLC is definately the center. For Catholics, the Vatican is not nearly as the center as people tend to think. Hard to articulate exactly what I mean.

Also, with our charisms, different orders of religious etc., (IE Beneditine, Franciscan, Carmelit, Dominican on and on) our traditions and cultures are very diverse, reflecting the diversity of the Lord’s creation.

Mormonism tends to be far less diverse.

You’re definitely right that the Catholic Church is less centralized than many outsiders (or even many lay Catholics) assume…and it definitely is not as centralized as the LDS Church…BUT we do both, unlike Evangelicals, profess belief in true, binding apostolic authority. Yes, Rome does not typically interfere in the day-to-day operations of individual dioceses (there are well over 2000 dioceses encompassing hundreds of thousands of parishes around the world!), but there is still Canon Law which the local bishops are bound by.