Mormons help Catholics rebuild after earthquake

[RebeccaJ]

Setting aside mormonism, and still thinking along the lines of ecumenism: How can a Catholic tell which non-Catholic Christian religions are part of the body of Christ, and which non-Catholic Christian religions aren’t? Does someone keep a list somewhere?

For example, my local mega-church is full of evangelicals who don’t really seem to “do baptism”. They seem to figure that stating “Christ is Lord and my Savior and I’m a sinner” or something similar, is all one needs to be saved. They just don’t think or talk about baptism. But they’re on the same page with Catholics about the trinity. But they don’t use the Catholic version of the Bible with those extra books. (etc, etc, etc.) Ecumenical?

Baptism is our entry into the life of the Holy Trinity; how we are incorporated into the Body of Christ. This is one of the compelling reasons for baptizing infants, as why would we deny them this gift?

There isn’t a list, as there are so many thousands of religions.Who has and hasn’t had a valid baptism is up to the Bishop to decide, as all those entering the Church receive acceptance to Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist from their Bishop (via a rite called the Rite of Election). A person, or group of people, are presented to the Bishop for Election, and it is the people doing the presenting who have gotten to know the individual, including their religious background and whether or not they have been baptized. It is this person who interviews the catechumen to determine if they have been baptized, and whether or not the baptism is valid. This person is a Deacon or director of Religious Education (which could be a Deacon). If the Deacon or RE director doesn’t know, they’ll ask their priest, if their priest doesn’t know they’ll ask their Bishop.

If the Bishop doesn’t know, or is unsure, he can ask fellow Bishops, all the way to the Roman Curia. Usually people coming into the Church are local/regional and so the Bishop is familiar with the usual local/regional religious backgrounds. If no one really knows for sure, a conditional baptism can be given, which is the same as all Catholic baptisms just words to the effect of “If you have not been baptized, I now baptize you.” are added.

People who lead RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) within a diocese are in contact with each other and meet regularly, so information is shared, including the information that is coming to them from their Bishop.

BTW, conditional baptism is how Mormon baptisms were handled for many decades. Then a Bishop outside of Utah asked if a Mormon baptism is valid. His question was submitted to the Roman Curia, which ruled a Mormon baptism is not valid. So now, any Bishop in any part of the world who asks if a Mormon baptism is valid, has a definitive answer.

Really, the only time a valid baptism comes into question is when a individual wants to convert to Catholicism, or when a Catholic is marrying a non-Catholic.

Ecumenism is a term used for groups of people, such as an entire religious organization. Individuals don’t use the term ecumenical in regards to each other.

 

[concretecamper]

Marie5890:

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimg901

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

On the contrary.

Catholic Moral Theology does take into account good intentions…

usccb.org/beliefs-and-tea…ieve/morality/

you’re not serious, are you?

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[Marie5890]

you’re not serious, are you?

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

The Church is serious about Her theology.

 

[concretecamper]

The Church is serious about Her theology.

Agreed, the Church is serious.

 

[lukasve]

I don’t want to confuse everyone but Christian means to any one who believes in Jesus Christ as his/her Savior, God and redeemer. That’s where the word was originally derived from. “Christian - Christ.” And it just so happens that the true name of the Mormon church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And if you even try to visit a Mormon chapel, every one of them have picture of Christ. And besides, the term Christian was already used during New Testament times. The Catholic church was founded during the reorganization of Rome through Constantine. So obviously, the term “Christian” did not originally came from the Catholics since it was oftenly used by the apostle Paul himself. And I don’t remember Paul mentioning any specific name of a church during his time. What I’m trying to say is, we Mormons should be treated and understood as Christians cause we believe in Jesus Christ as our God and Redeemer. And we also treat the Catholics and any other religious sect as equal and as brothers and sisters with the same Spiritual Father. And especially at times like this, we are very willing to help our brothers and sisters for their well being and safety.

 

[iepuras]

I don’t want to confuse everyone but Christian means to any one who believes in Jesus Christ as his/her Savior, God and redeemer. That’s where the word was originally derived from. “Christian - Christ.” And it just so happens that the true name of the Mormon church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And if you even try to visit a Mormon chapel, every one of them have picture of Christ. And besides, the term Christian was already used during New Testament times. The Catholic church was founded during the reorganization of Rome through Constantine. So obviously, the term “Christian” did not originally came from the Catholics since it was oftenly used by the apostle Paul himself. And I don’t remember Paul mentioning any specific name of a church during his time. What I’m trying to say is, we Mormons should be treated and understood as Christians cause we believe in Jesus Christ as our God and Redeemer. And we also treat the Catholics and any other religious sect as equal and as brothers and sisters with the same Spiritual Father. And especially at times like this, we are very willing to help our brothers and sisters for their well being and safety.

Please see this thread for a more detailed discussion on whether or not Mormons are Christians. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=826421

There are probably older threads regarding the early Christian church versus Mormonism, but here are a couple of recent ones.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=833754

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=829250

I won’t rehash the arguments in detail on this thread but Mormons use the same words (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) as Christians but Mormons have entirely different meanings for those words. Mormons and Christians speak a different language.

Also, was the Mormon god treating other religious sects “as equal and as brothers and sisters with the same Spiritual Father” when he said that they are “all wrong” and “an abomination in his sight”? (See Joseph Smith History 1:19). However, in answering this question it is probably best to start a new thread.

 

[JustaServant]

The Catholic church was founded during the reorganization of Rome through Constantine.

Documentation please.

 

[concretecamper]

The Church is serious about Her theology.

Haha …I was not questioning His Church

 

[LivingWaters7]

I don’t want to confuse everyone but Christian means to any one who believes in Jesus Christ as his/her Savior, God and redeemer. That’s where the word was originally derived from. “Christian - Christ.”

Where did you find the original definition?

And it just so happens that the true name of the Mormon church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And if you even try to visit a Mormon chapel, every one of them have picture of Christ. And besides, the term Christian was already used during New Testament times. The Catholic church was founded during the reorganization of Rome through Constantine.

Please cite your sources for the Catholic Church being “founded during the reorganization of Rome through Constantine”.

So obviously, the term “Christian” did not originally came from the Catholics since it was oftenly used by the apostle Paul himself. And I don’t remember Paul mentioning any specific name of a church during his time.

Catholics would say that the Church Paul was a member of was the Catholic Church, since we believe that it is the original Church established by Jesus Christ, as we read in the New Testament.

What I’m trying to say is, we Mormons should be treated and understood as Christians cause we believe in Jesus Christ as our God and Redeemer. And we also treat the Catholics and any other religious sect as equal and as brothers and sisters with the same Spiritual Father. And especially at times like this, we are very willing to help our brothers and sisters for their well being and safety.

The way many Catholics look at it is that a religion is defined by the God that is worshipped by its members. Catholics believe that the Trinity is the unifying God of Christianity, and that Christians have always believed in the Trinity, yes, even prior to the formal, specific, theological definitions provided by various ancient Councils. Latter-day Saints fundamentally disagree with traditional Christians on the nature of God and the nature of Christ.

Also, I think that the discussion of who is and isn’t Christian is rendered moot when we understand that the LDS faith does not regard any ordinances (baptism, confirmation, etc) as valid and saving, other than its own. So, it doesn’t really matter whether or not the LDS Church regards other churches as Christian, since the ordinances performed in them, including the Catholic Church, don’t do anything, and don’t lead to eternal life. And regardless of whether or not the Catholic Church regards the LDS faith, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc to be Christian, it can work with people of all faiths to accomplish various social and humanitarian goals, as it has always done.

 

[twopekinguys]

I don’t want to confuse everyone but Christian means to any one who believes in Jesus Christ as his/her Savior, God and redeemer. That’s where the word was originally derived from. “Christian - Christ.” And it just so happens that the true name of the Mormon church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And if you even try to visit a Mormon chapel, every one of them have picture of Christ. And besides, the term Christian was already used during New Testament times. The Catholic church was founded during the reorganization of Rome through Constantine. So obviously, the term “Christian” did not originally came from the Catholics since it was oftenly used by the apostle Paul himself. And I don’t remember Paul mentioning any specific name of a church during his time. What I’m trying to say is, we Mormons should be treated and understood as Christians cause we believe in Jesus Christ as our God and Redeemer. And we also treat the Catholics and any other religious sect as equal and as brothers and sisters with the same Spiritual Father. And especially at times like this, we are very willing to help our brothers and sisters for their well being and safety.

I fully expect you won’t be back to answer for your statements, but, I have to ask.

Have you read any of this thread before you posted?

I’m sorry, but, I have to address this portion of your post. “And it just so happens that the true name of the Mormon church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

If I say my name is William, does that mean I am Prince William?

If I say that I am 6’8" tall, does that mean I really am?

See where this is going?

I will leave you to account for your statements to the others that have asked. I am not going to pile on.

Good luck!! You’re going to need it.

 

[tarboy]

Ok- so it’s not that Msgr. Binghay is ignorant, it’s that my church attempts to deceive people into thinking we’re something we’re not, and Msgr. Binghay has fallen for our deception? I’m honestly trying to understand your belief about this matter, to the point where I can say them back to you, and you say “yes, that’s what I mean”.

So I’m still confused. He’s not in error, when he says Catholics and Mormons are engaged in ecumenism?

Confused. Is he right or not? If he’s fallen for mormonism’s “propaganda” and “sort of deception”, is he not in error?

I hope you are not forgetting English is not their native language. It’s not fair to parse words with non-native speakers. Considering the crisis, I can see him thankful for the spirit of ecumenism without considering the more legal definition. Cebuano and Tagalog will be spoken before English

 

[mardukm]

I’ve been in the Philippines for about 3 years and there are two things I’ve noticed:

(1) Filipinos help each other out because they are Filipinos, regardless of denominational differences. It’s not a matter of ecumenism, as one might technically understand the term in Christian dialogue, but a matter of being Filipino.

(2) There is no word for “ecumenism” in the Filipino language that sufficiently accommodates its technical nuances. There are words that generally mean “working together” and that would be the only thing meant by the priest when he uses the term “ecumenism.”

It’s not that the priest misunderstands Mormonism, or ecumenism, nor even that the Mormons here have a hidden agenda (though that’s certainly also possible).

Blessings,
Marduk.

 

[debbie_h]

I don’t want to confuse everyone but Christian means to any one who believes in Jesus Christ as his/her Savior, God and redeemer. That’s where the word was originally derived from. “Christian - Christ.” And it just so happens that the true name of the Mormon church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And if you even try to visit a Mormon chapel, every one of them have picture of Christ. And besides, the term Christian was already used during New Testament times. The Catholic church was founded during the reorganization of Rome through Constantine. So obviously, the term “Christian” did not originally came from the Catholics since it was oftenly used by the apostle Paul himself. And I don’t remember Paul mentioning any specific name of a church during his time. What I’m trying to say is, we Mormons should be treated and understood as Christians cause we believe in Jesus Christ as our God and Redeemer. And we also treat the Catholics and any other religious sect as equal and as brothers and sisters with the same Spiritual Father. And especially at times like this, we are very willing to help our brothers and sisters for their well being and safety.

Oh dear! :doh2:

 

[debbie_h]

I fully expect you won’t be back to answer for your statements, but, I have to ask.

Have you read any of this thread before you posted?

I’m sorry, but, I have to address this portion of your post. “And it just so happens that the true name of the Mormon church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

If I say my name is William, does that mean I am Prince William?

If I say that I am 6’8" tall, does that mean I really am?

See where this is going?

I will leave you to account for your statements to the others that have asked. I am not going to pile on.

Good luck!! You’re going to need it.

I don’t think he/she has read anything at all on this website.
The word ‘troll’ comes to mind.

 

[NeuroTypical]

I hope you are not forgetting English is not their native language. It’s not fair to parse words with non-native speakers.

(2) There is no word for “ecumenism” in the Filipino language that sufficiently accommodates its technical nuances. There are words that generally mean “working together” and that would be the only thing meant by the priest when he uses the term “ecumenism.”

I used to work in a translation house, and understand some of the complexities. One thing to keep in mind, this is an English edition of a Philippino news service. Meaning, some translator took the Msgr’s comments and translated them into English, figuring ‘ecumenical’ was the most appropriate term to use.

In other words, it may or may not be a misinformed Msgr. Could have easily been a misinformed translator. Although Catholics and Mormons are happy to work together as separate parties of good will on various endeavors, probably ‘ecumenism’ isn’t the appropriate term to use.

Thanks all. I think I have a much better grasp on the word, then when I started this thread.

 

[tarboy]

Baptism (i.e., according to the Trinitarian formula) is how we enter the Church and become part of the Body of Christ. If a mega-church evangelical who professes faith in Jesus Christ but has never been baptized wants to become Catholic, he will need to be baptized just like I must be baptized (former Mormon who was never baptized according to the Trinitarian formula).

I certainly don’t question the Churches decision but I wonder at their reason, for two points:

1. 
   *]I recall anyone could perform baptism given the need, using water and saying “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”
   *]I just searched online and it sounds like Mormons use about the same Trinitarian reference.
   

   1. States the person’s full name and says, “Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen” (D&C 20:73).

 

[Stephen168]

I certainly don’t question the Churches decision but I wonder at their reason,

What is the church’s reason?

 

[iepuras]

I certainly don’t question the Churches decision but I wonder at their reason, for two points:

1. 
   *]I recall anyone could perform baptism given the need, using water and saying “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”
   *]I just searched online and it sounds like Mormons use about the same Trinitarian reference.

1. 
   Please check the thread “Are Mormons Christian”. Mormons may use the same words as Christians but those words have entirely different meanings. Mormons thoroughly reject the Trinity, so I don’t see how they can perform a valid baptism even if they use the same words.
   
   The Mormon God the Father (aka, Heavenly Father) was once a mortal man who progressed to becoming a god. He did not create any matter. He merely organized it to create the earth. Heavenly Father is married to at least one (but probably many more than one) Heavenly Mother with whom he fathered all of our spirits. He also fathered the spirits of Jesus and Lucifer. Heavenly Father had relations with Mary to father Jesus. Also, Heavenly Father is not the only Heavenly Father. There is an infinite regression of gods.
   
   The Mormon Jesus is the spirit son of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. He is their firstborn. He is also our older spirit brother. Jesus was not always part of the “godhead”. He became part of the Mormon godhead when he offered to be the savior of the world at the Grand council in heaven when the Mormon plan of salvation was presented.
   
   There is not much to be said about the Mormon Holy Ghost. He is a spirit son of Heavenly Father and Mother. He too will eventually be given s physical body like ourselves. He also does not like to stay up late at night and typically goes to bed at midnight and definitely does not go to bad places where you might actually need him.
   
   The Mormon godhead are three separate persons with separate bodies but are one in purpose.
   
   This is why Mormon baptisms are not valid Christian baptisms. They do not believe in the same God as Christians do. As a side note, the Mormons also do not accept Christian baptisms as valid either.

 

[Marie5890]

Haha …I was not questioning His Church

I dont understand your point…

I gave the link that demonstrates that Catholic Moral theology does embrace good intentions…

 

[delrick03]

Don’t make a war between this two religion, The Important here is the Mormon is Willing to Rebuild the Church of Catholic, There are NO agreement between Catholic Church and the Mormon Church About Converts. The HELP of Mormon Church is very OPTIONAL they can accept it or not, Don’t make an Non-sense Scenario. If the people wants to join to the LDS Church That’s their CHOICE not yours. If you have a problem about the Word that you didn’t understand i recommend you to ask GOOGLE.