Mormons- how could you? "Killing her twice" Your church does not offer an appropriate response

[FabiusMaximus]

I would agree 100%.

Parents make decisions for their children, and you are indeed telling Catholic parents how they should raise their own children. Not something I can agree with, for any person of any faith.

There are no Catholic “rolls”, there are Sacramental records.

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Or perhaps it is the parents making decisions on the child’s eternal future?
Either way, it’s entirely comparable to what the Mormons do with proxy baptism. Making the decision for someone else, because the person in question cannot make it for him or herself.

PS: I love that Coldplay song.

I suppose so. I just find the current obsession with (or crusade against, as you put it) mormonism on this board to be bizarre.

Yes. I enjoyed some of the discussions with the Mormons on here. It’s sad to see them being pushed out.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Are some of you missing the point that Anne Frank died a Jewish girl? We are to respect the dead. At the most basic level, all of us would like our decisions honored. She was old enough to have made a choice about her beliefs. She made that choice and died for it.

It does not matter if the ritual is useless. It is an attack on what she believed in life. Believers and non believers such as myself should be able to respect others choices or decision to abstain once they are an adult. While I understand that many believers rituals have an indelible nature to them, most all religions do these rituals to living people that while they may not have a say as an infant in, they can loudly proclaim they reject them. The dead have no way to protest affiliation with a belief system. It is dispicable to disrespect the dead who have made decisions while alive.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Or perhaps it is the parents making decisions on the child’s eternal future?

And?..parents make decisions for their children. That is what being a parent means. My parents made the decision to baptize me LDS when I was eight years old, which was their right, as my parents. I also believe I should love and honor my parents. I hold no ill will towards them for practicing what they believe.

Mormons don’t believe they are making this decision for anyone, dead or alive. They do a proxy baptism, with the belief that the dead soul has to accept it. So the comparison that is trying to be made here, doesn’t work for Catholics or for Mormons.

Either way, it’s entirely comparable to what the Mormons do with proxy baptism. Making the decision for someone else, because the person in question cannot make it for him or herself.

I can’t help it if you are unable to see that parents make decisions for their children. Finding that FACT offensive is just a sign of religious bigotry, IMNHO.

 

[StrawberryJam]

So I can’t do anything about this stain. Very sad. At least my parents didn’t cut off some of my body parts. Oh wait…

If there is only one baptism then why are folks getting upset over what the Mormons are doing?

I mean, nobody seems to make a big deal out of the fact that just about everyone in the western world is Jewish.

Just about everyone in the western world is Jewish? That is an amazing “fact”. Care to back it up with say, facts?

 

[Cavaradossi]

Are some of you missing the point that Anne Frank died a Jewish girl? We are to respect the dead. At the most basic level, all of us would like our decisions honored. She was old enough to have made a choice about her beliefs. She made that choice and died for it.

It does not matter if the ritual is useless. It is an attack on what she believed in life. Believers and non believers such as myself should be able to respect others choices or decision to abstain once they are an adult. While I understand that many believers rituals have an indelible nature to them, most all religions do these rituals to living people that while they may not have a say as an infant in, they can loudly proclaim they reject them. The dead have no way to protest affiliation with a belief system. It is dispicable to disrespect the dead who have made decisions while alive.

Forgive me for being crass, but if she is in paradise, then she won’t care; if she is in hell, them she will have greater concerns. Either way, Anne Frank will probably not care.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I don’t think the Mormons have proxy baptised Christopher Hitchens yet. Perhaps they are too fearful that in doing so, he may be able to act from the inside to take their whole religion down one Mormon by one.

 

[TexanKnight]

Honestly, I’m at a loss as to why people would care in the first place. If, as the Catholic Church teaches, mormon baptisms have no power, then why do some of the Catholic posters here waste their energy getting upset over such a trivial matter? Life is too short.

because some of dislike things happening to us without consent.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Forgive me for being crass, but if she is in paradise, then she won’t care; if she is in hell, them she will have greater concerns. Either way, Anne Frank will probably not care.

When you die a martyr, let us know how you will feel about being mormon after death.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I don’t think the Mormons have proxy baptised Christopher Hitchens yet. Perhaps they are too fearful that in doing so, he may be able to act from the inside to take their whole religion down one Mormon by one.

They have to wait for a year before doing his baptism…I’m sure they’ll do their proxy work for him them.

 

[Cavaradossi]

I don’t think the Mormons have proxy baptised Christopher Hitchens yet. Perhaps they are too fearful that in doing so, he may be able to act from the inside to take their whole religion down one Mormon by one.

I honestly hope they do. The militant atheists need something irrational to get worked up over.

 

[Andromedus]

Why do people care so much about it? Honestly, you don’t even believe in this thing. In their own way, while still in error, they just tried to do something good for another person. She is dead, so it doesn’t matter if the Mormons practice some sort of ritual in an attempt to save her soul, unless they are right of course but I don’t think they are. If the Mormons claimed that she was a Mormon when she was still alive then there might have been a reason to be upset, but they didn’t, they just practiced their religion and had a ritual to save her soul.

I wonder why nobody reacts this way about ancestor-worshipers the poor ancestors never asked to be worshiped either, or at least some of them.

 

[Cavaradossi]

When you die a martyr, let us know how you will feel about being mormon after death.

Nothing against Anne Frank, but those who die outside of the Christian faith by definition are not martyrs (they did not witness to Christ). After death, I will either have tasted the joy of paradise, or I will be in hell for my unrepentance. Under neither circumstance will I care what some people did in my name after my death.

 

[Cavaradossi]

because some of dislike things happening to us without consent.

You must dislike God then and your parents, since both had a hand in bringing you into existence without your consent. Do you suppose God had Job sign some paperwork before allowing Satan to put his faith to the test. Perhaps he also got Job’s family to consent to being killed for the same reason.

 

[Andromedus]

When you die a martyr, let us know how you will feel about being mormon after death.

The Nazis probably would have killed her even if she converted to Christianity, the main reason for killing Jews was their ‘‘race’’ and not their beliefs. By the way, she is not Mormon after death or do you actually believe that they saved her soul?

 

[TexanKnight]

It is not the result that bothers me. I am bothered by anyone who does something to me without my consent. Whether it affects me or not, it is something to me or about me that I have no say about.

It is wrong and speaks very very poorly of Mormons

 

[cerad2]

Just about everyone in the western world is Jewish? That is an amazing “fact”. Care to back it up with say, facts?

It’s a bit off topic but if you search your ancestry (perhaps using the Mormon genealogical sites) and happen to find a female Jew as a direct ancestor then you are Jewish. All it takes is one and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

 

[cerad2]

I honestly hope they do. The militant atheists need something irrational to get worked up over.

Not to worry. We appreciate humor.

 

[Miriam1947]

Are some of you missing the point that Anne Frank died a Jewish girl? We are to respect the dead. At the most basic level, all of us would like our decisions honored. She was old enough to have made a choice about her beliefs. She made that choice and died for it.

In fact even if Anne Frank had converted to another religion (perhaps Catholicism) she still would have been murdered for being a Jew. Edith Stein was murdered for being a Jew and a Catholic.

It does not matter if the ritual is useless. It is an attack on what she believed in life. Believers and non believers such as myself should be able to respect others choices or decision to abstain once they are an adult. While I understand that many believers rituals have an indelible nature to them, most all religions do these rituals to living people that while they may not have a say as an infant in, they can loudly proclaim they reject them. The dead have no way to protest affiliation with a belief system. It is dispicable to disrespect the dead who have made decisions while alive.

 

[Allegra]

Why does anyone care about this? These baptisms are fake. They don’t do anything or mean anything.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I seem to be hearing a lot of the “it is a useless sacrament, so why be bothered by it?” type of replies.

I don’t need to tell you that some find all of the sacraments from all believers useless.
Again, it is not about the usefulness of the ritual.

It is about respect for the dead. Apparently, because this attack is of a religious nature it should be shrugged off as silly and useless, not worth getting upset over.

Once any one of us is dead, could we allow anyone to say anything about our affilations with the same reaction?

Mr. Joe Jones dies. He was a law abiding man faithfully married to his wife. A pedophile organization decides that Mr. Jones was a memeber of their association, even if he expressed no desire to be a pedophile, nor was a pedophile. What’s the harm? He is dead, what will he care about this in heaven? Or in Hell? Why would it matter to anyone?

Mr. Jones faithfully served The United States of America as a proud Marine for 20 years. He died on the battlefield a hero. Would it be okay if the Russians claimed him to be their hero because they had decided he really wanted to work for their team but, could not while alive? What harm would be done?

There are current stories in the news right now about men claiming to be war heros that never were. Seems to be a grey area about this.

I don’t care what an Orthodox Christian thinks the word Martyr means in terms of belief in Christianity. Anne Frank was not a Christian. She believed her religion was the true religion. Not Christianity. Therefore it is what her religion views her status that counts.
Orthodox Christians don’t view Roman Catholic sacraments as valid. To them, every ritual outside of their faith is useless. It’s surprizing they would be worked up enough to comment about how useless others rituals are.

No one should take a dead person’s name and decide to do what they wish with it. The living family members should not have to see their loved one listed as a member of any organization, religious or not- that they never wished to belong to. Why give a pass to religion?

I do not want to have association with any disco organization. I have and will stand firm in this conviction till death. To put may name next to such a thing would be disrespecting my living wishes.