Mormons: Is God, or Is Man First?

[Allweather]

I understand that polygamy is a command of God, according to the teachings of Joseph Smith and the Mormons. Joseph apparently received this command reluctantly, yet in obedience, he followed God’s command and took additional wives unto himself, and so did the other Mormon Great Men.

Yet, come the 1890s, and the Salt Lake City branch of Mormonism began prohibiting the practice of polygamy. Zerinus tells us that this resulted from U.S. and state laws that were passed which specifically prohibited polygamy.

For instance, Zerinus recently posted in #324 of the thread, Mormons, When Did the Apostasy Occur?:

""Not true. Adam-God theory has never been a doctrine of the LDS Church; and the doctrine of polygamy has never been disavowed. Only the practice of it has been discontinued in obedience to the laws of the land.

zerinus""

When I read the Bible, I find many instances where people had a choice to make… whether to follow God, or follow man. For instance, in Acts 4:19-20, Peter and John said to the Sanhedrin, "Whether it is right in the sight of God for us to obey you rather than God, you be the judges. It is impossible for us not to speak about what we have seen and heard. Later, in Acts 5:29, Peter tells the Sanhedrin, “We must obey God rather than men…”

So my question for the Mormons, is, how do you explain this abandonment of polygamy in the face of opposition and persecution coming from the U.S. government? Aren’t the fundamentalist Mormons, like Warren Jeffs, actually the more observant, and less apostate, Mormons, since they refuse to abandon polygamy just because the laws prohibit it?

 

[Tmaque]

The federal law banning polygamy had been in effect for several decades prior to 1890. The LDS Church just ignored the law because they knew there was really no way for the feds to really enforce it. It was only when congress modified the law to allow seizure of church property did the LDS “prophet” suddenly receive a revelation ending new polygamous marriages.

This “obedience to the laws of the land” comment is nonsense.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

The federal law banning polygamy had been in effect for several decades prior to 1890. The LDS Church just ignored the law because they knew there was really no way for the feds to really enforce it. It was only when congress modified the law to allow seizure of church property did the LDS “prophet” suddenly receive a revelation ending new polygamous marriages.

This “obedience to the laws of the land” comment is nonsense.

I thought the ‘revelation’ came to the Great Adulterer when Utah applied for Statehood and it was denied on the basis of its polygamous practices.

Zerinus will ignore this post: I have it on the testimony of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Tmaque]

I thought the ‘revelation’ came to the Great Adulterer when Utah applied for Statehood and it was denied on the basis of its polygamous practices.

Zerinus will ignore this post: I have it on the testimony of the Holy Spirit.

Jonathon,

Utah had been applying for statehood for 30 years before this. It was always refused based primarily on two criteria:
-The state endorsement of the practice of polygamy
-What was seen as undue influence on government by the LDS Church
The denial of statehood alone was not enough to stop the practice of polygamy.

In 1887, the Edmunds-Tucker Bill passed. It provided a means for seizing church property and also included several other punitive measures. In 1889, the Cullom-Struble Bill was debated on the floor of congress. It included even stricter measures, but the LDS Church was able to stop it by promising to end the practice of polygamy. That’s when the “revelation” was received.

For modern LDS to actually believe that this revelation came from God requires either total ignorance on the subject or a total suspension of reason.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Todd,

Wasn’t there an appeal at the US Supreme Court level in 1890 about the LDS church transferring Temple Square and other property from the ‘church’ to individuals in order to avoid the escheatment?

It seems [if I remember correctly] that the threat of other federal lawsuits [the old writing on the wall] is what made the ‘revelation’ come to SLC.

Thanks

Jonathan

 

[Allweather]

It seems [if I remember correctly] that the threat of other federal lawsuits [the old writing on the wall] is what made the ‘revelation’ come to SLC.

Thanks

Jonathan

What I find interesting is that Almighty God, or at least one of the gods among the pantheon of Mormon gods, is so influenced by the United States Government.

The God of Christianity is not known to cow tow to the demands of human governments. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns found out the hard way that God is not threatened by the Supreme Court or Congress. If God commanded the practice of polygamy, which according to Joseph Smith, he did, then it was mighty small of him to back down from the U.S. Gov’t merely upon the threat of confiscation and imprisonment.

Of course, we don’t know yet how the Mormons resolve this apparent crisis of divine authority. They don’t seem to like to respond to this thread. Do you think they’re skeer’d of it?

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Of course, we don’t know yet how the Mormons resolve this apparent crisis of divine authority. They don’t seem to like to respond to this thread. Do you think they’re skeer’d of it?

When we Christian posters (Catholic and Protestant) stay the course on the initial posting and are not dragged off onto some tangent by rmcmullen or wussup or zerinus, then there is NEVER a mormon answer.

Go back and look at how these posters steer the discussion AWAY from what exMormons or Catholics ask for clarification or comment.

They troll these threads looking for a crack, some statement made in passing by Nan S or you (they avoid me) and start a WHOLE new discussion regardless of pleas from others to “answer my last post.”

After reading mormon doctrine long enough, :banghead: , one begins to get a little :whacky: eyed and then believes that he or she is receiving personal testimony from what the mormons call “the Holy Spirit” but we know as:bigyikes:

Pray for them as much as we can!

Pax Christi