Mormons... Seriously.... Why?

[Rv_Cain_Spencer]

I was watching a Mormon documentory about “the Lost Book of Abraham” that Joseph Smith “interprited.” I give it two words:

EPIC. FAIL.

I couldn’t even finish the documentory, it was sooo sad. Mormons, I’m going to try and be as charitable as I can possibly be about this. Here’s how the story goes:

Once upon a time, Joseph Smith was traveling along and he met a merchant who sold him an ancient piece of Egyptian papyrus that was ten feet long, and he presented to his town as “the Lost Book of Abraham.” whoah… He claimed it was written in a language called “REVISED EGYPTIAN!” facepalm Now, after I heard this part I looked like this guy > But seriously, revised egyptian. I’m STILL stuck on that. Alright, now then, continuing on:
His congregation asked if he could interprit it, and he said he would. So he recorded the hyraglyphs in his journal, along with the picture which was of a man lying on a table, with another man standing over him with a knife extended over the man on the table. Which Joseph Smith interprited to be an angry Pharroh going after Abraham. Recently, in more advanced society, we happen to have had Joseph Smith’s “Book of Abraham” sitting in a museum. However, this papyre had the head of Pharroh ripped off, along with his hand that was holding the knife. The LDS church took it to Egyptologists to be translated. They replyed saying that it was difficult taking Joseph Smith’s claims seriously, since the picture was actually of the god Horus ressurecting Pharroh. The picture is a popular one in egyptology. They said it was hard to take him seriously because he turned a ressurection into an entirely different story, that being the story of Abraham and the angry Pharroh.
So after the LDS church find out Joseph Smith was completely wrong, they take it back to the museum and say, “It can’t be his, because the one Joseph Smith used was ten feet long.”
I was like… REALLY? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
The hyroglyphs on the papyre matched the ones recorded in his journal, and if Joseph Smith had no problems ripping the head and hand off of Horus then I’m sure he’d have no problem ripping a few feet off of the scroll! (Not to meantion it’s been through a fire.)
This is one of the points that Mormons complain that the “anti-Mormon” documentory didn’t touch on; whether or not the papyre in the museum was the same one Joseph Smith used. Mormons obcuse the video of being “anti-Mormon,” but the video doesn’t display any bias, and even shows the LDS church the benefit of the doubt throughout the documentory. The video is made to allow the viewer to decide for themselves. Here’s the film if you’re interested:

youtube.com/watch?v=hcyzkd_m6KE

More often than not, I do try to avoid speaking in regards to the mormon faith. I have a dear friend who is LDS but we have problems because she often tries to convince me of her beliefs. But I have to say that I just can’t seem to follow her teachings at all… they seem to be bible conflicting.

Though they have only been around for 200 years they have spread quite far and wide.

My friend also brings many of her work parrtners when she comes to visit me. The sister missionaries. It can be a bit exhausting. I try to prevail and keep my friendship with her dispite the hardships involved.

 

[MrZetterlund]

More often than not, I do try to avoid speaking in regards to the mormon faith. I have a dear friend who is LDS but we have problems because she often tries to convince me of her beliefs. But I have to say that I just can’t seem to follow her teachings at all… they seem to be bible conflicting.

Though they have only been around for 200 years they have spread quite far and wide.

My friend also brings many of her work parrtners when she comes to visit me. The sister missionaries. It can be a bit exhausting. I try to prevail and keep my friendship with her dispite the hardships involved.

I feel your pain. I have a friend named Jared Cole who got mad at me for not believing the LDS church. He talks about all these things such as there being more earths than the sand on the beach and how we’re going to be gods of our own worlds when we get to heaven. What bothers me is that he talks down to me and sees me as “less enlightened” because I rejected his church’s teachings. lol.
I tried to tell him that Native Americans are from a nomadic tribe from Asia who came over here during the last Ice Age. He sighed, put his hand on my shoulder, and said:
“Well if that’s what you think, then maybe it’s best you don’t know how they really got here.” I was like->

 

[Sister_Leocadia]

I have a sister who is younger than me. She has never accepted my vocation to be a nun and she joined quite a few churches since she was about 16 but had never settled in one until she became a Mormon last year. She had always written to me when I was in Slovakia in the Motherhouse, telling me how I should leave the Catholic Church and join whatever church she was in but when I came back to England, where I was born, she refused to see me though she did send me a copy of The Book of Mormon. I’m afraid to say I use it to put my drinks cup on when I’m having lunch as I have no coasters, but whenever I see it I am reminded of my sister and that I should pray for her so I don’t think I’m being too disrespectful!

 

[Rv_Cain_Spencer]

I feel your pain. I have a friend named Jared Cole who got mad at me for not believing the LDS church. He talks about all these things such as there being more earths than the sand on the beach

They told me this also. It was hard to swallow at first hearing.

and how we’re going to be gods of our own worlds when we get to heaven.

Hmm… yes, they also mentioned that.

What bothers me is that he talks down to me and sees me as “less enlightened” because I rejected his church’s teachings. lol.

MrZetterlund, God bless! As you may imagine, I am thinking “No comment”.

I tried to tell him that Native Americans are from a nomadic tribe from Asia who came over here during the last Ice Age.

I know not of history. Sorry!

He sighed, put his hand on my shoulder, and said:
“Well if that’s what you think, then maybe it’s best you don’t know how they really got here.” I was like->

Oh my, well at least you are hearing it straight up. I had little bits and pieces delivered to me over the course of about a year. It got to a point where I was asking myself, “What kind of denomination does she come from”? And then of course, she finally admitted to me what her faith truly was. Then things were a bit more direct. Admittedly though, things are harder than ever between me and her now.

 

[Rv_Cain_Spencer]

I have a sister who is younger than me. She has never accepted my vocation to be a nun and she joined quite a few churches since she was about 16 but had never settled in one until she became a Mormon last year. She had always written to me when I was in Slovakia in the Motherhouse, telling me how I should leave the Catholic Church and join whatever church she was in but when I came back to England, where I was born, she refused to see me though she did send me a copy of The Book of Mormon. I’m afraid to say I use it to put my drinks cup on when I’m having lunch as I have no coasters, but whenever I see it I am reminded of my sister and that I should pray for her so I don’t think I’m being too disrespectful!

Oh Sister Leocadia! I am unsure how to react to that. …(secretly laughing)…

But your dear sister, how very sad. Sometimes people find churches more of a social groups rather than a place of worship. Maybe she is happy where she is? Maybe she has settled with the people of the church so well that she can’t even think to break off from them now even if she has a change of heart?

 

[dianaiad]

History of the Church, Volume II:

“I do not believe that the people of the North have any more right to say that the South shall not hold slaves, than the South have to say the North shall.”

blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/joseph-smith-on-abolition/
boap.org/LDS/History/History_of_the_Church/Vol_II

Ok, thanks…I tried to search for this and couldn’t find it. That’s why I said he didn’t say it.

I knew his stand on slavery and freeing the slaves changed over his last few years, though.

 

[dianaiad]

No, it’s dangerous to the followers. What if Joseph Smith had said he is the new god exalted by Jesus Christ and him getting shot to death was his crucifixion?

Then we would have had an entirely different situation, and a different man. The point is, he didn’t say that, did he?

In fact, asking me that is like asking “What if Paul wrote that he was Jesus reincarnated?” You can ‘what if’ all you want to, but our beliefs are not based upon what you are afraid he might have done.

He’s playing with you’re mind, man.

The last time I looked, “Diana” is a feminine name, and having given birth to five children, I think I can confidently claim to be female.

I’ve seen Mormons acuse God of lying.

No you haven’t. You have seen Mormons tell you that what you think God said isn’t what He actually did say, but that’s not calling GOD a liar.

Parker (another LDS poster) said he’s thankful for the stumbling block of the lost book of Abraham because it separates those who TRULY believe from those who do not.

Well, it is a test of faith, isn’t it? But then, so is a belief that Jesus changed water into wine and restored a decomposing corpse (Lazarus…who wasn’t ‘not breathing’ for a few minutes–he was nearly a week dead) to life, two things that, at least in present scientific thought, are not possible. That’s quite a stumbling block to quite a few people.

Of course, a bigger one than the Book of Abraham seems to be the idea that direct divine revelation is possible now, not safely tucked away long, long ago in a country far, far away, in some comforting mythical mystery. The reaction to the idea is a little like the reaction one gets if you put a bib on at a state banquet. It’s…just not DONE, don’tcha know.

Also, that in evolution, my friend Jared Cole believes creation and evolution do not correspond because God wanted to test our faith to the point of blind faith. So does God produce false evidence?

Hey, don’t get me into THAT one! I’m an evolutionist. So are most Mormons, come to think of it , though that’s up to the individual Mormon. I do know a few literal 7 24-hour day creationist type Latter-day saints, but not many, and BYU teaches straight evolution, In fact, it has one of the premier undergraduate evolutionary biology departments in the nation.

No, I listen to lectures from the BYU channel alll the time and think their points are quite learnable and beneficial, but I do not, nor will I ever accept anything the LDS church teaches on theology or history or prophecy to be litteraly true. Nor will I rely on blind faith. I wish it were true because my Mormon friend Jared Cole resents me for rejecting his religion, in all due respect. I never told him how I feel abut Joseph Smith because I didn’t want to offend his faith. But now he finds it strange that I didn’t convert. Seeiing as how I’m such a good faithful Christian.

So…do two things. First, do the Moroni 10:3-7 challenge, and I mean do it honestly. Won’t hurt you any; after all, the NT tells you to do pretty much the same thing. After you do it, if you are still not ready to convert, then God wants you elsewhere. Tell your friend that and say…I can’t get a testimony of this right now. Perhaps someday, but right now, I need to concentrate on my personal connection with Christ." …or something similar, as long as it is true.

Then stay friends.

It can happen, y’know.

Sounds like Armaggedon to me. But war didn’t “poor out” on all nations after the civil war. In fact, it did alot of good.

Why? the piece in the museum matches the one in his journal. And the pictures, and the hyraglyphs. If he has no problem ripping the head and hand off of Horus, then I’m sure he would have no problem ripping a few feet off the scroll.

No, I believe in Ju-Ju’s existance, and read imbetween the lines. Just as I do everything. The holy Spirit doesn’t confirm anything to be true. But the rewards you recieve for that faith is what makes it true.

Those quotes aren’t visions or prophecies. They are knowledge given by the disciples that Jesus tought them about the second coming.
“but also those who impart information about present matters and theological importance that he or she has recieved from God”
So then John the baptist would be a prophet since he prepared the way for the messiah. Then why did he deny being a prophet? (John 1:21)

They made a full documentory debuking the C-14 dating. History says the Shroud was around much before 1260. Coins over the eyes on the shroud were marked with symbols for the rule of Pontious Piolate from 27-32 A.D. The C-14 dating contradicts mounds of evidence. I pitty anyone who thinks they can actually get the correct date from an object that’s been burned, flooded on, re-woven, and preserved for many generations.
The Shroud of Turin is more authentic than the skin on my bones.

 

[Rv_Cain_Spencer]

Then we would have had an entirely different situation, and a different man. The point is, he didn’t say that, did he?

In fact, asking me that is like asking “What if Paul wrote that he was Jesus reincarnated?” You can ‘what if’ all you want to, but our beliefs are not based upon what you are afraid he might have done.

The last time I looked, “Diana” is a feminine name, and having given birth to five children, I think I can confidently claim to be female.

No you haven’t. You have seen Mormons tell you that what you think God said isn’t what He actually did say, but that’s not calling GOD a liar.

Well, it is a test of faith, isn’t it? But then, so is a belief that Jesus changed water into wine and restored a decomposing corpse (Lazarus…who wasn’t ‘not breathing’ for a few minutes–he was nearly a week dead) to life, two things that, at least in present scientific thought, are not possible. That’s quite a stumbling block to quite a few people.

Of course, a bigger one than the Book of Abraham seems to be the idea that direct divine revelation is possible now, not safely tucked away long, long ago in a country far, far away, in some comforting mythical mystery. The reaction to the idea is a little like the reaction one gets if you put a bib on at a state banquet. It’s…just not DONE, don’tcha know.

Hey, don’t get me into THAT one! I’m an evolutionist. So are most Mormons, come to think of it , though that’s up to the individual Mormon. I do know a few literal 7 24-hour day creationist type Latter-day saints, but not many, and BYU teaches straight evolution, In fact, it has one of the premier undergraduate evolutionary biology departments in the nation.

So…do two things. First, do the Moroni 10:3-7 challenge, and I mean do it honestly. Won’t hurt you any; after all, the NT tells you to do pretty much the same thing. After you do it, if you are still not ready to convert, then God wants you elsewhere. Tell your friend that and say…I can’t get a testimony of this right now. Perhaps someday, but right now, I need to concentrate on my personal connection with Christ." …or something similar, as long as it is true.

Then stay friends.

It can happen, y’know.

Sounds like Armaggedon to me. But war didn’t “poor out” on all nations after the civil war. In fact, it did alot of good.

Why? the piece in the museum matches the one in his journal. And the pictures, and the hyraglyphs. If he has no problem ripping the head and hand off of Horus, then I’m sure he would have no problem ripping a few feet off the scroll.

No, I believe in Ju-Ju’s existance, and read imbetween the lines. Just as I do everything. The holy Spirit doesn’t confirm anything to be true. But the rewards you recieve for that faith is what makes it true.

Those quotes aren’t visions or prophecies. They are knowledge given by the disciples that Jesus tought them about the second coming.
“but also those who impart information about present matters and theological importance that he or she has recieved from God”
So then John the baptist would be a prophet since he prepared the way for the messiah. Then why did he deny being a prophet? (John 1:21)

They made a full documentory debuking the C-14 dating. History says the Shroud was around much before 1260. Coins over the eyes on the shroud were marked with symbols for the rule of Pontious Piolate from 27-32 A.D. The C-14 dating contradicts mounds of evidence. I pitty anyone who thinks they can actually get the correct date from an object that’s been burned, flooded on, re-woven, and preserved for many generations.
The Shroud of Turin is more authentic than the skin on my bones.

Dianaiad, how did you whip up that message so quick!?

 

[dianaiad]

I missed answering half the above post, and my editing time ran out…so here’s the rest of it:

Sounds like Armaggedon to me. But war didn’t “poor out” on all nations after the civil war. In fact, it did alot of good.

A just war is still a war, and just because the good guys win sometimes doesn’t mean there was no fighting. But Armaggedon, in a religious setting, is a very specific event having to do with a great battle that will begin in the valley of Megiddo, that will happen, evidently, just prior to the second coming of Christ. Joseph Smith never linked the Civil War to this incident–or to the second Coming, come to think of it. He made some predictions about it that, in hindsight, seem quite prescient, but he did NOT claim that it would herald the coming of Christ.

Why? the piece in the museum matches the one in his journal. And the pictures, and the hyraglyphs. If he has no problem ripping the head and hand off of Horus, then I’m sure he would have no problem ripping a few feet off the scroll.

By the way, Joseph isn’t accused of ripping these things off, but of filling already missing items in, incorrectly. Just to get the record straight.

No, I believe in Ju-Ju’s existance, and read imbetween the lines. Just as I do everything. The holy Spirit doesn’t confirm anything to be true. But the rewards you recieve for that faith is what makes it true.

…and this incredibly sarcastic bit of mockery is in service to what point, precisely? If you really do believe that the Holy Spirit does not confirm the truth of everything, but that you just have to pick something to believe in and hope that you picked the right thing by the goodies you get as a result, you have quite a lot of nerve criticising MORMONS for their choice in the matter!

Those quotes aren’t visions or prophecies. They are knowledge given by the disciples that Jesus tought them about the second coming.

Uh, I hate to tell you this, Mr. Z, but there is no evidence that Paul met Jesus in life. His only interaction with Him was through revelation. Paul states things about the future and the coming of Christ that the other writers of the NT do not say. It would be a little…odd…to assume that this prophecy isn’t prophecy simply because you don’t want it to be.

“but also those who impart information about present matters and theological importance that he or she has recieved from God”
So then John the baptist would be a prophet since he prepared the way for the messiah. Then why did he deny being a prophet? (John 1:21)

John the Baptist was indeed a prophet. In John 1:21 he did not deny being a prophet. He denied being Elijah…and he denied being “the Prophet…” or ‘that’ prophet, or the Christ. But then he called himself A prophet, in verse 23, when he sad he was, like the prophet Esaias, “the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord.”
MrZetterlund;6068313:

They

Who is ‘they?’

made a full documentory debuking the C-14 dating. History says the Shroud was around much before 1260. Coins over the eyes on the shroud were marked with symbols for the rule of Pontious Piolate from 27-32 A.D. The C-14 dating contradicts mounds of evidence. I pitty anyone who thinks they can actually get the correct date from an object that’s been burned, flooded on, re-woven, and preserved for many generations.
The Shroud of Turin is more authentic than the skin on my bones.

I don’t actually care. I don’t need it to know that Christ rose. If it is not, it is a glorious piece of art, and if itis, it still proves nothing. It seems to me that anyone who bases their religious faith on something like the Shroud of Turin is basing their faith upon sand; opinion about such things is notoriously fickle.

 

[dianaiad]

Actually, that is not true.

In January, 2005, things changed. An article appeared in a peer-reviewed scientific journal Thermochimica Acta, which proved that the carbon 14 dating of the Shroud of Turin was flawed because the sample used was invalid. Moreover, this article, by Raymond N. Rogers, a well-published chemist and a Fellow of the Los Alamos National Laboratory, explained why the Shroud of Turin was much older. The Shroud of Turin was at least twice as old as the radiocarbon date, and possibly 2000 years old…What Rogers found was that the carbon 14 sample was taken from a mended area of the Shroud that contained significant amounts of newer material. This was not the fault of the radiocarbon laboratories. But it did show that the carbon dating was invalid.

shroudstory.com/

and

Based on . . .

a.Chemistry Today (vol 26 n4/Jul-Aug 2008), “Discrepancies in the radiocarbon dating area of the Turin shroud,”

b.Los Alamos National Laboratory findings (Ohio State Shroud of Turin Conference report (August 2008),

c.Thermochimica Acta (vol 425 2005) and

d. findings of Georgia Institute of Technology chemist John L. Brown,

. . . it can be stated that the 1988 carbon 14 dating of the Shroud of Turin is invalid.

innoval.com/C14/

Really? I didn’t know that.
How cool is that?

Do you know if the church is going to allow carbon dating of another part of the shroud?

 

[twopekinguys]

Really? I didn’t know that.
How cool is that?

Do you know if the church is going to allow carbon dating of another part of the shroud?

There is talk about more “research”, whether that means carbon dating, I don’t know.

The shroud is also to go on display in the year 2010,(In May I believe) which would be a perfect time for that type of testing, but I haven’t seen anything on it.

There is a relatively new book out by a Vatican researcher that has found what she believes to be writing in Greek, Latin, Hebrew and Aramaic on the shroud. Here is one article about it.

thenewamerican.com/index.php/culture/37-history/2370-new-evidence-continues-shroud-of-turin-debate

 

[Sister_Leocadia]

Oh Sister Leocadia! I am unsure how to react to that. …(secretly laughing)…

But your dear sister, how very sad. Sometimes people find churches more of a social groups rather than a place of worship. Maybe she is happy where she is? Maybe she has settled with the people of the church so well that she can’t even think to break off from them now even if she has a change of heart?

She has always said she’d never join the Catholic Church whatever happened which I think is sad. I always pray for her, every day. It makes me sad that she won’t talk to me. The last time I saw her she came with my mum and she stole some of my clothes and burned them. She’s been mentally ill for years and she sometimes refuses to take her medication.

 

[Rv_Cain_Spencer]

She has always said she’d never join the Catholic Church whatever happened which I think is sad. I always pray for her, every day. It makes me sad that she won’t talk to me. The last time I saw her she came with my mum and she stole some of my clothes and burned them. She’s been mentally ill for years and she sometimes refuses to take her medication.

Oh dear, peace to you,

This must be difficult for you to live with. I suffered greatly from depression in my past and it did affect my faith greatly. But I can safely say that I didn’t derail as far as your sister appears to have. I know and understand that this is a completely different thing all together but I am praying for you Sister Leocadia.

We all hurt inside but have different ways of displaying our grief. You sisiter probably struggles to express her confusion and sadness.

God bless her poor soul and yours.

 

[MrZetterlund]

Oh my, well at least you are hearing it straight up. I had little bits and pieces delivered to me over the course of about a year. It got to a point where I was asking myself, “What kind of denomination does she come from”? And then of course, she finally admitted to me what her faith truly was. Then things were a bit more direct. Admittedly though, things are harder than ever between me and her now.

Hardly. It’s like pulling teeth unless you get them really enthusiastic. Then they’ll “go there.”

I have a sister who is younger than me. She has never accepted my vocation to be a nun and she joined quite a few churches since she was about 16 but had never settled in one until she became a Mormon last year. She had always written to me when I was in Slovakia in the Motherhouse, telling me how I should leave the Catholic Church and join whatever church she was in but when I came back to England, where I was born, she refused to see me though she did send me a copy of The Book of Mormon. I’m afraid to say I use it to put my drinks cup on when I’m having lunch as I have no coasters, but whenever I see it I am reminded of my sister and that I should pray for her so I don’t think I’m being too disrespectful!

Lol. Personally, I’m terrified of my BOM. I grabbed it off my book shelf and said in my heart while thinking of my Mormon friend:
"Well, it may not be historically accurate. But Catholics (as do I) believe that it’s not the historical accuracy, but the message that God is trying to get across that is inherent.
I was reading it allowed and the books on my desk fell over! Granted, it could have been because Me taking the BOM out made the larger books knock down the book stands, but still, that was scary.

Well, it is a test of faith, isn’t it? But then, so is a belief that Jesus changed water into wine and restored a decomposing corpse (Lazarus…who wasn’t ‘not breathing’ for a few minutes–he was nearly a week dead) to life, two things that, at least in present scientific thought, are not possible. That’s quite a stumbling block to quite a few people.

Of course, a bigger one than the Book of Abraham seems to be the idea that direct divine revelation is possible now, not safely tucked away long, long ago in a country far, far away, in some comforting mythical mystery. The reaction to the idea is a little like the reaction one gets if you put a bib on at a state banquet. It’s…just not DONE, don’tcha know.

fustration is poring out of me
Lord, Jesus, calm my nerves… Ok, look, I would acspect scientific skeptisism of a mirical. But that’s an entirely different case. We have physical evidence that Joseph Smith lied. I’m not saying it’s not possible for a prophet to translate an ancient Egyptian papyre, but if he actually got it right I’d be more compelled to believe him. THAT is the stumbling block that the church of LDS faces and MUST deal with.

Hey, don’t get me into THAT one! I’m an evolutionist. So are most Mormons, come to think of it , though that’s up to the individual Mormon. I do know a few literal 7 24-hour day creationist type Latter-day saints, but not many, and BYU teaches straight evolution, In fact, it has one of the premier undergraduate evolutionary biology departments in the nation.

Yes, I’m an evolutionist too. But that wasn’t my point. My friend thinks that God makes creation and evolutin contradicting to test our faith. And THAT is what I see wrong.

So…do two things. First, do the Moroni 10:3-7 challenge, and I mean do it honestly. Won’t hurt you any; after all, the NT tells you to do pretty much the same thing. After you do it, if you are still not ready to convert, then God wants you elsewhere. Tell your friend that and say…I can’t get a testimony of this right now. Perhaps someday, but right now, I need to concentrate on my personal connection with Christ." …or something similar, as long as it is true.

Then stay friends.

It can happen, y’know.

We are still good friends. I find this part kinda offensive though, when you ask me to tell him:
"I need to concentrate on my personal connection with Christ."
WHATEVER!

 

[MrZetterlund]

A just war is still a war, and just because the good guys win sometimes doesn’t mean there was no fighting. But Armaggedon, in a religious setting, is a very specific event having to do with a great battle that will begin in the valley of Megiddo, that will happen, evidently, just prior to the second coming of Christ. Joseph Smith never linked the Civil War to this incident–or to the second Coming, come to think of it. He made some predictions about it that, in hindsight, seem quite prescient, but he did NOT claim that it would herald the coming of Christ.

ANYONE WANT TO TAKE THIS? I’VE SEEN IT BEFORE.

By the way, Joseph isn’t accused of ripping these things off, but of filling already missing items in, incorrectly. Just to get the record straight.

Oh C’mon! Joseph Smith photo-shopped that papyre! No, he wasn’t accused of that before I came along, that’s just something rational thinking can help you with when met with overwhelming evidence against a cumpulsive liar.

…and this incredibly sarcastic bit of mockery is in service to what point, precisely? If you really do believe that the Holy Spirit does not confirm the truth of everything, but that you just have to pick something to believe in and hope that you picked the right thing by the goodies you get as a result, you have quite a lot of nerve criticising MORMONS for their choice in the matter!

The Holy Spirit doesn’t reveal these things, God the Father does! God rewards your faith. And THAT is what verifies it. that reason can be applied to any examples given in Hebrews chapter 11.

Uh, I hate to tell you this, Mr. Z, but there is no evidence that Paul met Jesus in life. His only interaction with Him was through revelation. Paul states things about the future and the coming of Christ that the other writers of the NT do not say. It would be a little…odd…to assume that this prophecy isn’t prophecy simply because you don’t want it to be.

BWAH! Paul himself was a great persecuter of the Way and repented and became the greatest spreader of the gospel. That is his proof, redemption out of thin air. It’s not a prophecy, it’s a quote of Jesus’ prophecy!

“but also those who impart information about present matters and theological importance that he or she has recieved from God”

So then John the baptist would be a prophet since he prepared the way for the messiah. Then why did he deny being a prophet? (John 1:21)

 

[dianaiad]

I feel your pain. I have a friend named Jared Cole who got mad at me for not believing the LDS church. He talks about all these things such as there being more earths than the sand on the beach and how we’re going to be gods of our own worlds when we get to heaven. What bothers me is that he talks down to me and sees me as “less enlightened” because I rejected his church’s teachings. lol.
I tried to tell him that Native Americans are from a nomadic tribe from Asia who came over here during the last Ice Age. He sighed, put his hand on my shoulder, and said:
“Well if that’s what you think, then maybe it’s best you don’t know how they really got here.” I was like->

Well, you happen to both be right about that, Mr. Z.

Diana, who’s main goal in life these last coupld of days seems to be seeing how fast Z can go bald…

 

[MrZetterlund]

Well, you happen to both be right about that, Mr. Z.

Diana, who’s main goal in life these last coupld of days seems to be seeing how fast Z can go bald…

What do you mean?!? Asians are Jews too???
Blood is running off my scalp and down my face. I hope you’re happy. :crying:

 

[dianaiad]

I have a sister who is younger than me. She has never accepted my vocation to be a nun and she joined quite a few churches since she was about 16 but had never settled in one until she became a Mormon last year. She had always written to me when I was in Slovakia in the Motherhouse, telling me how I should leave the Catholic Church and join whatever church she was in but when I came back to England, where I was born, she refused to see me though she did send me a copy of The Book of Mormon. I’m afraid to say I use it to put my drinks cup on when I’m having lunch as I have no coasters, but whenever I see it I am reminded of my sister and that I should pray for her so I don’t think I’m being too disrespectful!

You use the Book of Mormon as a drink coaster?

Well, that certainly keeps it in view. Probably makes your sister Sisters do a double take, as well.

I’m sorry your sister wouldn’t see you when you went back to England. When I was a missionary, brand new to my calling (as in…about a week into it) I was finally on the plane taking me to England, where I was to spend the next year and a half of my life. I was the only 'Sister" along with a group of about seven young 'Elders" (I know, I know…but that’s what we CALL them.) who, being two years younger than me and having been warned rather strictly about how they were to behave around young women, ignored the peawadding out of me.

I sat down next to a young woman who noticed my name tag, and started talking about the church with me…turns out that she was a Dominican nun flying home to England to a wedding. I will always remember her with extreme gratitude; she made a long, lonely and slightly scary trip (I’d never been in a plane before, and had never traveled anywhere before, either) friendly and interesting. I don’t remember her name, but I will always remember her with gratitude, and actually pray for her quite often. I hope she is well, and safe, and being who she wants to be.

Diana

 

[Rv_Cain_Spencer]

ANYONE WANT TO TAKE THIS? I’VE SEEN IT BEFORE.

I will kindly refuse.

Hardly. It’s like pulling teeth unless you get them really enthusiastic. Then they’ll “go there.”

I have to admit that when they get excited they do tend to unleash more than they perhaps would originally have wished to.

Lol. Personally, I’m terrified of my BOM. I grabbed it off my book shelf and said in my heart while thinking of my Mormon friend:
"Well, it may not be historically accurate. But Catholics (as do I) believe that it’s not the historical accuracy, but the message that God is trying to get across that is inherent.
I was reading it allowed and the books on my desk fell over! Granted, it could have been because Me taking the BOM out made the larger books knock down the book stands, but still, that was scary.

Interestingly enough, when my friend and the missionaries had left my house, and left me alone with the Book Of Mormon I did feel some-what tense. As soon as I aproached the book and touched it, I was horrified when my beloved art work of Jesus Christ fell off from my television and straight into peices all over the floor! I was mortified. I took it as a sign and then refused to touch the book for quite some time.
It was quite funny really, when ever I ate at my dinner table there it was… right beside me. I was feeling awkward about touching it so much so that I just left it there for about two weeks! Finally, I plucked up enough courage to pick it up and safely place it in my book shelf (in the fictional section).

 

[dianaiad]

Rv_Cain_Spencer:
Dianaiad, how did you whip up that message so quick!?

…by leaving it half done, that’s how!