Mormons... Seriously.... Why?

[Catholic20064]

No, it’s called brainwashing, and it’s a terrible tool used by cultist Joseph Smith. The difference between God leading Native American Jews, and leading Jews to Israel, is that we’re finding Jews in Israel, and every place they were exiled to. But not in America, where the entirety of the BOM takes place.

Mormons think if we found Jews in America we would no longer need faith to believe in Jesus.

 

[Marie5890]

After reading thru this thread the thought that comes clearing to my mind is appreciation for having left the LDS church pre-mtDNA evidence becoming clear.

I feel like I have been spare the cognitive dissonance and going thru a ton of mental gymnastics post mtDNA.

 

[dianaiad]

What happend to Diana?

I’M NOT DONE WITH HER YET. :nunchuk:

Well, Christmas happened, and visits from her daughters, and surgery on Monday…you know,

life.

As to whether you are ‘done with’ me…you aren’t?

Far be it from me to spoil your fun.

 

[Marie5890]

Well, Christmas happened, and visits from her daughters, and surgery on Monday…you know,

life.

I hope your visits w/ daughters went well as did surgery.

Hopefully the New Year will find you on the path of healing

 

[dianaiad]

I hope your visits w/ daughters went well as did surgery.

Hopefully the New Year will find you on the path of healing

Well, the visit was wonderful…they started home about three hours ago. The surgery, however…is this coming Monday. Getting READY for it took a lot longer than the surgery will!

Dang…X-rays, EKG’S, blood work up the ying/yang…all took several hours for a procedure that’s going to take about 40 minutes.

(they are fixing a sports injury to my knee, and I’m sticking to THAT story!)

Diana

 

[Marie5890]

Well, the visit was wonderful…they started home about three hours ago. The surgery, however…is this coming Monday. Getting READY for it took a lot longer than the surgery will!

Dang…X-rays, EKG’S, blood work up the ying/yang…all took several hours for a procedure that’s going to take about 40 minutes.

(they are fixing a sports injury to my knee, and I’m sticking to THAT story!)

Diana

Diana!!

Good luck and God Bless…

I have been on the side you are finding yourself on …SO I do “get it”…

Will keep you in my prayers…and your family…

Head UP…God is there!!

 

[MrZetterlund]

Mormons think if we found Jews in America we would no longer need faith to believe in Jesus.

< completely necessary

Well, Christmas happened, and visits from her daughters, and surgery on Monday…you know,

life.

As to whether you are ‘done with’ me…you aren’t?

Far be it from me to spoil your fun.

Well… I guess I can call it quits. I was refering to the argument on page seven I believe it was. Of course, we all know I’m the winner of that draged out argument

I hope your visits w/ daughters went well as did surgery.

Hopefully the New Year will find you on the path of healing

Marie said it all the same from from me. Good Luck & God Bless You.

 

[Answersplease]

(color added)

I agree that the fact that Joseph Smith ripped off the head and hands of the figure on the papyri is suspicious. I also agree with the museum’s conclusions

… that being that it is very hard to trust Joseph Smith.

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again… Joseph Smith is a fraud!!!
DonLeon;5405204:

I do not search anti-Mormon books or sites alone. I have searched into the Mormon history written by Mormons and have read these with an open mind. I have found that the claims made are pretty difficult ( I’d truly say impossible) to accept. The claim made that Joseph Smith copied the book from “golden plates from heaven” in “reformed Egyptian” is especially difficult to accept. Let alone the “golden plates”, but the “reformed Egyptian”
is truly false. Linguistic scholars of every persuasion all state that there is “no such thing,
and never has been”, since there is absolutely no historical evidence of any sort to support
the claim. I myself have spoken to Copts (original Egyptians, not Arabs) who still speak
Egyptian and each one says they have never heard of “reformed Egyptian”.

This bit alone is enough to raise a red flag.

Again, the claim that the Book of Mormon “is the most correct book ever written” has reulted in approximately 4000 errors, and the book has been revised many times. Another red flag.

I could go on and on, but to no avail. You sir do not have an open mind and, like I once was ( yes, I am a convert to Catholicism), refuse to accept all the evidence placed before you. I suggest that you truly study your Mormon history, and origins, without bias and see for your self all the evidence placed before you.

As for anti-Catholic books, they are too numerous to list. Any public library carries many of them. Each and every claim made by anti-Catholics in these books has been refuted and has been proven to be false. Many of the refutations were honestly made by Protestants in defense of Catholicism. I, myself, set out to prove Catholicism false and failed miserably. I learned the truth and became a Catholic. All I can do is pray and ask God to open your eyes so that you may do likewise. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[SeattleCatholic]

So…do two things. First, do the Moroni 10:3-7 challenge, and I mean do it honestly. Won’t hurt you any; after all, the NT tells you to do pretty much the same thing. After you do it, if you are still not ready to convert, then God wants you elsewhere. Tell your friend that and say…I can’t get a testimony of this right now. Perhaps someday, but right now, I need to concentrate on my personal connection with Christ." …or something similar, as long as it is true.

And if the Holy Spirit gives you a testimony rejecting Mormonism?

I am open to finding truth, and have read a lot of Mormon resources (BoM, D&C, Articles of Faith, Lectures on Faith, etc.). This is not a matter of me not being able to “get a testimony of this right now.” I receive a testimony that Mormonism is false.

How can the Holy Spirit give conflicting testimonies?

 

[ParkerD]

And if the Holy Spirit gives you a testimony rejecting Mormonism?

I am open to finding truth, and have read a lot of Mormon resources (BoM, D&C, Articles of Faith, Lectures on Faith, etc.). This is not a matter of me not being able to “get a testimony of this right now.” I receive a testimony that Mormonism is false.

How can the Holy Spirit give conflicting testimonies?

SeattleCatholic,

The Holy Spirit doesn’t give conflicting testimonies, but the following would need to be in place in a person’s life to receive guidance from the Holy Spirit of the kind you are talking about here:

1–Keeping all the commandments to the best of one’s ability, including the two great and the Ten and the Beatitudes.

2–Praying with pure intent and not just to prove a point.

3–Sincerely desiring truth, including having read the Bible or at least major parts of the Bible with an open mind so God can speak to the hearer.

4–Having charity including for all the people in the world and looking forward to how the gospel fulfills the prophecies of all the holy prophets, including the final gathering of Israel as prophesied so many times in the Old Testament.

5–Having not just read, but thought deeply about what one was reading including thinking about the writers’ testimonies of Jesus Christ and their sincerity and conviction.

Otherwise, the prayer was a waste of time and whatever answer one thought they received was not the Holy Spirit doing the answering.

 

[dianaiad]

And if the Holy Spirit gives you a testimony rejecting Mormonism?

Obviously I don’t think that He will. I am, after all, LDS. However, I DO believe that the Holy Spirit might tell you…not now. Or…something wasn’t taught right, or …you aren’t ready yet, or…you need to work on something else right now.

I believe that the Holy Spirit will ALWAYS confirm truth. I also believe that humans will take that confirmation of one truth–and hang a lot of ‘not so much truth’ on it. What we all need to do is be very careful what we are asking for.

I am open to finding truth, and have read a lot of Mormon resources (BoM, D&C, Articles of Faith, Lectures on Faith, etc.). This is not a matter of me not being able to “get a testimony of this right now.” I receive a testimony that Mormonism is false.

How can the Holy Spirit give conflicting testimonies?

I don’t think He can…so I hope you understand this, but my faith says something else is going on. (shrug) Because while I don’t believe for a moment that your faith is lacking, or that you are lying, the Holy Ghost has confirmed the truth of the gospel as taught by the CoJCoLDS.

So…if you are asking me why the Holy Spirit can tell you that Mormonism is false…then can’t you understand why I can say, with equal…or perhaps greater (who knows that for certain?) faith that Mormonism is true?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Otherwise, the prayer was a waste of time and whatever answer one thought they received was not the Holy Spirit doing the answering.

So, if you don’t get the answer you, ParkerD wants, prayer is a waste of time? Interesting.

 

[dianaiad]

So, if you don’t get the answer you, ParkerD wants, prayer is a waste of time? Interesting.

Rebecca, you know that’s not what he said.

He said that it is a waste of time to pray if you aren’t serious, if you don’t really desire the truth, if you aren’t trying to obey the will of God, if you haven’t thought about the situation yourself and if you don’t have charity.

Gee, isn’t there something in the NT about that sort if thing? Something like…sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal…

Come to think of it, there’s this bit about praying sincerely and not for show because those who do need not expect an answer…“they have their reward?”

I went over that post with a fine tooth spell checker,luv…and there wasn’t a single thing in there that said one has to get the answer Parker wants.

Pop quiz; what is the name of the fallacy Rebecca just committed?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca, you know that’s not what he said.

He said that it is a waste of time to pray if you aren’t serious, if you don’t really desire the truth, if you aren’t trying to obey the will of God, if you haven’t thought about the situation yourself and if you don’t have charity.

Gee, isn’t there something in the NT about that sort if thing? Something like…sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal…

Come to think of it, there’s this bit about praying sincerely and not for show because those who do need not expect an answer…“they have their reward?”

OK, so anyone who doesn’t get the answer you want them to get, is praying for show.

POP QUIZ: what is the definition of arrogance.

I went over that post with a fine tooth spell checker,luv…and there wasn’t a single thing in there that said one has to get the answer Parker wants.

Pop quiz; what is the name of the fallacy Rebecca just committed?

Pop quiz: what is the question dianaiad poses anytime she doesn’t agree with another person, and doesn’t want to really address what they are saying?..oh, that’s a fallacy…which one?

 

[zaffiroborant]

SeattleCatholic,

The Holy Spirit doesn’t give conflicting testimonies, but the following would need to be in place in a person’s life to receive guidance from the Holy Spirit of the kind you are talking about here:

1–Keeping all the commandments to the best of one’s ability, including the two great and the Ten and the Beatitudes.

2–Praying with pure intent and not just to prove a point.

3–Sincerely desiring truth, including having read the Bible or at least major parts of the Bible with an open mind so God can speak to the hearer.

4–Having charity including for all the people in the world and looking forward to how the gospel fulfills the prophecies of all the holy prophets, including the final gathering of Israel as prophesied so many times in the Old Testament.

5–Having not just read, but thought deeply about what one was reading including thinking about the writers’ testimonies of Jesus Christ and their sincerity and conviction.

Otherwise, the prayer was a waste of time and whatever answer one thought they received was not the Holy Spirit doing the answering.

To review:

1. You are a lying, thieving, covetous, murderous/adulterous person (former fornicator) who worships idols, takes the Lords name in vain and ignores the Sabbath, dishonors your parents and, you hate your neighbors and God.
2. You are full of pride wanting to prove your point.
3. You are insincere in your quest for understanding.
4. You are uncharitable, not a surprise considering your behavior as outlined in number 1.
5. You read without thinking or reflecting on what you’ve read, quit treating it like a billboard on the side of the road.

Remember if you come to the conclusion that Mormonism is false it is because there is something wrong with you. Fix yourself!!

 

[vickimonica]

:d

ok, so anyone who doesn’t get the answer you want them to get, is praying for show.

Pop quiz: What is the definition of arrogance.

Pop quiz: What is the question dianaiad poses anytime she doesn’t agree with another person, and doesn’t want to really address what they are saying?..oh, that’s a fallacy…which one?

well said…

 

[Answersplease]

SeattleCatholic,

The Holy Spirit doesn’t give conflicting testimonies, but the following would need to be in place in a person’s life to receive guidance from the Holy Spirit of the kind you are talking about here:

1–Keeping all the commandments to the best of one’s ability, including the two great and the Ten and the Beatitudes.

2–Praying with pure intent and not just to prove a point.

3–Sincerely desiring truth, including having read the Bible or at least major parts of the Bible with an open mind so God can speak to the hearer.

4–Having charity including for all the people in the world and looking forward to how the gospel fulfills the prophecies of all the holy prophets, including the final gathering of Israel as prophesied so many times in the Old Testament.

5–Having not just read, but thought deeply about what one was reading including thinking about the writers’ testimonies of Jesus Christ and their sincerity and conviction.

Otherwise, the prayer was a waste of time and whatever answer one thought they received was not the Holy Spirit doing the answering.

I believe the point the others are trying to make, is that if the “praying challenge” gives a result in favor of Mormonism, then the above points 1 to 5 are not questioned,

but if the “praying challenge” gives a result to be against Mormonism, then the above points 1 to 5 are questioned.

Praying About the Book of Mormon - Is it Biblical?

mrm.org/praying-about-bofm

In essence, the test of Moroni 10:4 is a no-win situation. The one who is challenged must accept the book as true otherwise his integrity is placed under suspicion. If a person does accept the challenge (albeit unbiblical as it is) and concludes that the Book of Mormon is not of God, it is obvious to the Mormon that the person who prayed Moroni’s prayer either did not have a sincere heart, real intent, or perhaps even their faith in Christ was somehow inadequate. Mormons are convinced that if these three ingredients are used properly the test will yield positive results. Since it is not possible (in their mind) for the book to be wrong, the one who prayed must have done something wrong. To prove my point, ask your Mormon acquaintance if he/she will renounce Joseph Smith and the LDS Church if you were to pray about the Book of Mormon and, as a result, felt that God told you it was not scripture. If they will not agree to this condition they unwittingly confirm the fact that this is not a fool-proof method for determining truth. If it is possible for you to get an erroneous “negative” answer, why is it not possible for them to get an erroneous “positive” answer?

 

[ParkerD]

To review:

1. The sincere in heart love God, love others, and keep the commandments. That needs to be in place.
2. The sincere in heart are humble before God.
3. The sincere in heart don’t already think they have the answers.
4. The sincere in heart can be detected by how they treat people, even those they don’t know personally.
5. You [may have] read without thinking or reflecting on what you’ve read, quit treating it like a billboard on the side of the road.(This is well said–Bravo!) .

Remember if you come to the conclusion that the Book of Mormon is false it is very likely you had already made up your mind before you started, or were insincere as noted above. The only person who will know that is–one person, no one else–“you”.

 

[RebeccaJ]

c.u.l.t.

 

[dianaiad]

OK, so anyone who doesn’t get the answer you want them to get, is praying for show.

POP QUIZ: what is the definition of arrogance.

Pop quiz: what is the question dianaiad poses anytime she doesn’t agree with another person, and doesn’t want to really address what they are saying?..oh, that’s a fallacy…which one?

Well, which one was it, Rebecca? You just committed the same one again.