Mormons to build temple in Rome

[Chris-WA]

The president of the mormon church, Thomas S. Monson announced this morning (9:00am PST) that the LDS church would build 5 new temples. Temples are where ordinances are performed for the living and the dead, including the use of “sacred” signs and symbols, oaths and penalties.

The fisrt 4 of the 5 were announced and then a little pause, and then the announcement that the 5th would be in… Rome, Italy. There was a wry smile and the congregation (probably about 20,000) gave a rumble of laughter.

This shouldn’t bother us Catholics. We’ve had a cathedral smack dab in the middle of Mormondom for almost a century (several blocks east from the Salt Lake temple). It’s a beautiful one at that:

saltlakecathedral.org/

Many a Mormon convert to Catholicism comes into the Church in that building.

When you walk into a cathedral you instantly know you’re in a house dedicated to God. Everything about it points to the reality that this is a place for worship. When you walk into an LDS temple, you feel like you’re in a plush hotel in Manhatten.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Bruce R was writing what Mormonism has taught from the beginning. He was being honest.

And I’ll add, the Mormon willingness, almost eagerness, to throw Bruce R under the bus, speaks volumes. Hardly how you would think one treats someone believed to be an apostle.

On second thought, I’ve seen a few Mormons throw St. Paul under the bus. I guess this is “normal” for y’all.

 

[why_me]

And I’ll add, the Mormon willingness, almost eagerness, to throw Bruce R under the bus, speaks volumes. Hardly how you would think one treats someone believed to be an apostle.

On second thought, I’ve seen a few Mormons throw St. Paul under the bus. I guess this is “normal” for y’all.

This is not true. Over on the mormonapologetic site, Bruce McConkie is spoken of very highly. And although his Mormon Doctrine has been criticized (Especially by me), he is still regarded as a good man and as a man of god.

But we all make mistakes and Mormon Doctrine (first edition) is a mistake.

And as far as Paul is concerned, I would claim that Mormons are very Pauline in their understanding of christian life.

 

[why_me]

When you walk into a cathedral you instantly know you’re in a house dedicated to God. Everything about it points to the reality that this is a place for worship. When you walk into an LDS temple, you feel like you’re in a plush hotel in Manhatten.

Many mormons would disagree with the temple experience you described. But everything can be criticized even the gothic cathedrals of catholicism. Need we forget that when many of the cathedrals were built in Europe, there was immense poverty. Such cathedrals were mainly a sign of church power. But the populations were extremely poor.

 

[why_me]

That is because people are learning more and more about what Mormonism really is (thanks largely to the internet). Mormonism is evil, and as people learn about it and discourse with Mormons like you they naturally become more anti-Mormon.

I don’t think so. The Internet is filled with hate speech written behind ‘walls’. It is basically a mirror into the heart of society. The hate on this forum is basically just a reflection of the social environment that we all live in. For example, you equating mormonism with evil can show that you may have a skewed position on evil and shows hate.

Mormonism: love god, love your neighbor, pray often, live the commandments and show charity to life.

Now is that evil?

 

[why_me]

I can only tell you what I know for a fact to be the Mormon position on this, and that as a member of the Mormon church, you may attend and/or participate in other faith’s services, etc. but if you do whatever is necessary to become a “member” of those other churches, (baptism, profess membership etc-- whatever the other church requires of you to become a “member”) the rule is that you should be excommunicated from the Mormon church. That’s what the handbook says.

I would think the Catholic church would be the one with the problem in your case, but that is not for me to say, if you have been baptized Mormon. I would say you are definitely skirting the issue on both sides, but that is your decision. If a conflict ever arises, you should be thinking about what side you would come down on. It could happen.

I think that it would come down to each individual case. Hopefully, bishops would see the human side to it all. People are always in a flux of change. Sometimes it is best to wait and see what happens when people leave the lds church and join another church. Excommunication is a big step in the process. There are many small steps that need to be considered first. And hopefully, bishops would recognize this.

 

[why_me]

Catholics are appearing to become more and more anti-mormon, with the recent non-recognition of our baptism for example, and the venom you see here. Of course it is ultimately between you and the Lord, and Mormons of course defend your conscience above anything else.

In general, catholics do not give mormons much thought. However, on this site there are a handful of antimormons who post hatred but the majority of catholics tend to avoid the discussion. And at times, a catholic comes to the thread to give a lecture to the haters about god’s love. And that is the catholic position. Show mormons and everyone else, god’s love.

 

[RebeccaJ]

This is not true. Over on the mormonapologetic site, Bruce McConkie is spoken of very highly. And although his Mormon Doctrine has been criticized (Especially by me), he is still regarded as a good man and as a man of god.

But we all make mistakes and Mormon Doctrine (first edition) is a mistake.

And as far as Paul is concerned, I would claim that Mormons are very Pauline in their understanding of christian life.

I can read whyme. Anytime the mormon belief regarding the whore of Babylon comes up, the blame is quickly pinned to McConkie. He didn’t make this belief up, it came out of Mormonism, he didn’t insert it into Mormonism. Yet, your friends at MADB will stick it to him every time. Sometimes, vehemently so.

Seriously whyme, Mormons are whack.

Mormons don’t believe a thing Paul taught. If they did, they would be Catholic.

 

[RebeccaJ]

In general, catholics do not give mormons much thought. However, on this site there are a handful of antimormons who post hatred but the majority of catholics tend to avoid the discussion. And at times, a catholic comes to the thread to give a lecture to the haters about god’s love. And that is the catholic position. Show mormons and everyone else, god’s love.

And whyme often posts about what all Catholics do or think.

He is the Great Carnac.

Wesley J. Smith

Recent and archived work by Wesley J. Smith for National Review.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[why_me]

Whyme is right- this is the official mormon position. Most early mormons were protestant and already had these interpretations in mind when they joined our church, but the view of the Catholic church as the “great and abominable church” has been renounced by Mormon leadership. That is why sometimes you hear these sentiments from individual Mormons, but it is not the church position.

You are correct. The protestant interpretation of catholicism was the ‘whore of babylon’. And many early lds were protestants. But it seems that the protestant brothers and sisters are getting a free ride about it all. I have not heard too much criticism of the protestant sects referring to the catholic church as the whore of babylon on this section of the forum.

Protestantism during and after the reformation didn’t have a good interpretation of the catholic church.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I think that it would come down to each individual case. Hopefully, bishops would see the human side to it all. People are always in a flux of change. Sometimes it is best to wait and see what happens when people leave the lds church and join another church. Excommunication is a big step in the process. There are many small steps that need to be considered first. And hopefully, bishops would recognize this.

I think you should go ask your bishop.

 

[why_me]

And whyme often posts about what all Catholics do or think.

He is the Great Carnac.

http://www.wesleyjsmith.com/blog/uploaded_images/carnac-756908.jpg

I can only go by my personal observations and experiences. And they have been good. When I got involved in the catholic church I did hear some snide comments about the mormon church because some people heard of my mormonism. But I set the record straight fast and defended the lds church quite well. Now no more snide comments. But I have to say, that these people were super catholics, daily mass, etc. Average catholics just have the attitude of let and let live as do average mormons

 

[RebeccaJ]

You are correct. The protestant interpretation of catholicism was the ‘whore of babylon’. And many early lds were protestants. But it seems that the protestant brothers and sisters are getting a free ride about it all. I have not heard too much criticism of the protestant sects referring to the catholic church as the whore of babylon on this section of the forum.

Protestantism during and after the reformation did have a good interpretation of the catholic church.

I see, now you are throwing the Protestants under the bus. While showing how Mormon doctrine changes with popular belief.

And then say you agree, to boot. When is it that you are you going to stop calling yourself a Catholic? You are clearly Mormon in everything you believe.

 

[why_me]

I see, now you are throwing the Protestants under the bus. While showing how Mormon doctrine changes with popular belief.

And then say you agree, to boot. When is it that you are you going to stop calling yourself a Catholic? You are clearly Mormon in everything you believe.

I made a typo and now corrected it. You were too fast for me!! You need to slow down and see if a correction comes.

 

[RebeccaJ]

You need to slow down and see if a correction comes.

Patiently waiting for the day you renounce Mormonism as the falsehood it is. The only correction that matters.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The reason many think that catholicism is the whore of babylon is because of the reference to “seven mountains” which clearly seems to apply to Rome.

Of course Rome was seen to be “Babylon” to the early Christians, so a condemnation of Rome is not a condemnation of the “Roman Church”

Do not forget that other cities were built upon seven “hills”.

Throughout the history of Jerusalem, the Jewish, Christian and Muslim faiths have treasured the sacredness of the Holy Land and its Holy City Jerusalem. From the uniqueness of this City built on Seven Hills, each faith has flourished.

1.) Mount Gared; 2.) Mount Goath; 3.) Mount Acra; 4.) Mount Bezetha; 5.) Mount Moriah; 6.) Mount Ophel; 7.) Mount Zion.

Several cities have claimed to have been built upon seven hills.

 

[Chris-WA]

But everything can be criticized even the gothic cathedrals of catholicism. Need we forget that when many of the cathedrals were built in Europe, there was immense poverty. Such cathedrals were mainly a sign of church power. But the populations were extremely poor.

Yeah, just like those darn Isrealites when they built the temple in Jerusalem. What a waste of money when they could have been helping poor people instead. Or those Mormons who build lavish temples in countries where 90% of the population is destitute. What an awful thing to do. Give me a break. Look, if you’re going to make these kinds of arguments, you better make sure the same issue doesn’t apply to your own religion before you criticize another.

Here is yet another double standard Mormon posters here would have us believe: when the Catholic church builds expensive cathedrals, it’s because the church is power hungry and doesn’t care about the poor. When Mormons build lavish temples, it’s because they’re sacred. Let me clue you in to a basic fact that is undeniable, and you can do with it what you wish. No organization throughout the history of the earth has done more for the poor than the Catholic Church. No one else even comes close.

If you’re going to argue that the Catholic Church wastes money by building expensive cathedrals rather than feeding the poor, thenyou better first go to Salt Lake and demand that the LDS church sell off all it’s lavish buildings, properties, investment holdings, etc. and give it to the poor. If you’re willing to do that, then maybe you have a valid point.

 

[mfbukowski]

But you get involved in threads that aren’t even talking about LDS and present the teachings of your church. That’s not defense that’s promotion. So your claim of defense rings a little off.

Name one.

 

[mfbukowski]

If this interpretation has changed, it’s something very recent; even the missionaries, who referred to Jehovah’s Witnesses as “jay-dubs,” referred to Catholics as “gee-ayes.” If you read some of the material from John Taylor, Orson Pratt, George Cannon, Heber Kimball and others, it is quite clear what was taught from the very beginning; McConkie didn’t say anything original and there’s really no way to get around that one.

Next time the missionaries come around, although I generally won’t discuss religion with them (we get lots of them and I do go out of my way to treat them well as long as they’re reasonably polite), I’ll see what they have to say about it. The last pair, at least the senior, sure didn’t like Catholics. The pair before that were cool though; maybe it depends upon what is currently taught in the particular ward.

Missionaries don’t go by what is being taught in a particular ward. Most are serving in more than one ward, and they typically get transferred every 6 weeks or so anyway.

 

[mfbukowski]

Do not forget that other cities were built upon seven “hills”.

1.) Mount Gared; 2.) Mount Goath; 3.) Mount Acra; 4.) Mount Bezetha; 5.) Mount Moriah; 6.) Mount Ophel; 7.) Mount Zion.

Several cities have claimed to have been built upon seven hills.

Anyone could probably find seven hills in any town they wanted to.