Mormons to build temple in Rome

[coleraine]

I don’t really like the idea of mormons making new temples anywhere, really. I’m not trying to be bigoted but they don’t preach the truth so…you know. But we don’t have to worry about it a whole lot, the Vatican is it’s own country, and no matter what is on the outside, it will be catholic on the inside.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Guys, I do have to come to the LDS’ defense here. The Catholic Church is not the “abominable church.” Mormon doctrine states that the abominable church is no specific church. Every Mormon I know while of course doesn’t believe in the Catholic Church, acknowledges that in accordance to their teaching, it is the closest thing throughout the apostasy.

I doubt they would build a large temple in Rome, unless they want to have serious problems on their hands. I’m all for them building a temple in Italy…but Rome…I foresee this stalling like the unfinished temple in Honduras.

You do need to understand however that this is a rather modern interpretation of LDS belief.

Historically speaking, the early “Saints” (early Mormons) understood the abominable church to be specifically the Catholic Church. I guess the Orthodox Church would be presumably included in that, though I doubt most early-Mormons (being almost exclusively American or Western-European) were very “aware” of the Orthodox Church.

Understand that the LDS concept of “church” is very similar to the Catholic understanding and very far removed from the Protestant understanding. The LDS view “the church” as a visible, tangible organization headed by a priesthood, ergo the only “competition” the LDS could presumably have is a church of similar organization. The abominable church is the church that “changed the ordinances and perverted the scriptures”.

Obviously it’s a far stretch to apply that definition to the Protestants as they have no “ordinances” and very few, if any “sacraments”, as well as not having any role in the canonization, translation, nor preservation of scripture.

 

[mfbukowski]

i have a problem with this. you BELIEVE JS was a prophet. you don’t KNOW it. The LDS testimony is so inculcated from toddler stage on up to always say you KNOW so as to promote the revelation aspect of mormonism and attempt to create the illusion of perfect knowledge in areas of faith. now having said that…I KNOW JS was a fraud, BY was worse and Thomas Monson is not a prophet. I KNOW the BoM is false, the D&C worse and the PoGP the worst of all. I BELIEVE in the Bible and One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic church and every bit of the nicene creed.

I know it by direct experience and am as sure about it as I am that I am typing on my computer. I do not use the word “know” lightly. I know it the same way that I know that Jesus is the Christ, and I know it the same way Peter knew that Jesus was the Christ: by direct revelation.

Matthew 16
13 ¶ When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

How do you know that Jesus is the Christ? Because your church teaches it?

I know what I know. You may believe whatever you like.

It’s ironic that you appear to KNOW that mormonism is false, but you BELIEVE that your church is true. Very curious.

 

[mfbukowski]

Since you’ve been on these fora, you have caused us all to become more anti-Mormon.

Wow I had no idea I had such vast influence.

 

[mfbukowski]

The one on Aquinas.

HMMMM ok, I’ll give you that one. But that was not my intent. I really am looking for anyone who can explain Aquinas in English that makes sense.

I am flattered that you are such a fan.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I know it by direct experience and am as sure about it as I am that I am typing on my computer. I do not use the word “know” lightly. I know it the same way that I know that Jesus is the Christ, and I know it the same way Peter knew that Jesus was the Christ: by direct revelation.

Matthew 16
13 ¶ When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

How do you know that Jesus is the Christ? Because your church teaches it?

Our faith is a gift from God, just as it was for Peter, as is His grace upon those who act upon that faith. Faith in Christ is total, that is to also believe in ALL He said.

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

Where did Christ say he would be with us until the consummation of the world, except for 1800 years? He didn’t.

I know what I know. You may believe whatever you like.

It’s ironic that you appear to KNOW that mormonism is false, but you BELIEVE that your church is true. Very curious.

Seems your statements above ‘promote’ your beliefs over the beliefs of others? Of course that can’t be since you claimed you are not here to promote your beliefs. Very curious.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

The president of the mormon church, Thomas S. Monson announced this morning (9:00am PST) that the LDS church would build 5 new temples. Temples are where ordinances are performed for the living and the dead, including the use of “sacred” signs and symbols, oaths and penalties.

The fisrt 4 of the 5 were announced and then a little pause, and then the announcement that the 5th would be in… Rome, Italy. There was a wry smile and the congregation (probably about 20,000) gave a rumble of laughter…

God bless.

Hal.

Thanks for the info Hal.

The Catholic Church broke ground for a cathedral in Salt Lake City in 1899, with only 90 parishoners in the whole region.

The LDS Church is about 109 years behind.

Peace,
-Robert

 

[Robert_in_SD]

I know it by direct experience and am as sure about it as I am that I am typing on my computer. I do not use the word “know” lightly. I know it the same way that I know that Jesus is the Christ, and I know it the same way Peter knew that Jesus was the Christ: by direct revelation.

Matthew 16
13 ¶ When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

…

I know what I know. You may believe whatever you like.

It’s ironic that you appear to KNOW that mormonism is false, but you BELIEVE that your church is true. Very curious.

I “KNOW” Joseph Smith was deceived, for the very same reasons. I “KNOW” the LDS Church is a false religion that is leading people away from the true Church, for the same reasons. You, of course, are free to “KNOW” otherwise and therefore, we cannot really have a rational discussion about which of us “KNOWS” the truth, and which of us “KNOWS” a lie.

Isn’t that neat how your standard leaves us both “KNOWING” the truth? Is that possible? Or perhaps this approach is not a proper basis for ascertaining real truth?

Peace,
-Robert

 

[mjf001]

I “KNOW” Joseph Smith was deceived, for the very same reasons. I “KNOW” the LDS Church is a false religion that is leading people away from the true Church, for the same reasons. You, of course, are free to “KNOW” otherwise and therefore, we cannot really have a rational discussion about which of us “KNOWS” the truth, and which of us “KNOWS” a lie.

Isn’t that neat how your standard leaves us both “KNOWING” the truth? Is that possible? Or perhaps this approach is not a proper basis for ascertaining real truth?

Peace,
-Robert

That’s the point they don’t want to face, isn’t it? Both the LDS and Catholics can’t be correct. One of us is wrong. “Knowing” simply doesn’t cut it. If knowing flies in the face of the facts, then what is it that the LDS “know”. We’ve had numerous discussions on the facts, in every discussion all the LDS have is circular reasoning, unfounded assertions, scriptures twisted to fit an illogical, unfounded interpretation, and when all that fails, ad hominem attacks or I “know” this church is true. I’m sorry, “knowing” simply isn’t enough.

 

[RC_Matt]

I know it by direct experience and am as sure about it as I am that I am typing on my computer. I do not use the word “know” lightly. I know it the same way that I know that Jesus is the Christ, and I know it the same way Peter knew that Jesus was the Christ: by direct revelation.

In what manner have you received direct revelation?

 

[PaulDupre]

As for “direct revelation”, Mormon style:

I recall an extraordinarily pretty and charming young woman I met and became friendly with at BYU in 1976. She once told me that many young Mormon men (mostly returned missionaries) had announced to her that they each had had a “revelation” that he and she had “made a covenant in the pre-existence” to meet and marry here on earth. This pre-mortal covenant-making is a popular romantic notion among the LDS. The young lady wryly remarked that either these young men were deluding themselves or she had been a shameless hussy in the pre-existence.

The point is that among true-believing Mormons revelations are a dime a dozen. They all have them and they are just self-serving wishful thinking.

 

[why_me]

I “KNOW” Joseph Smith was deceived, for the very same reasons. I “KNOW” the LDS Church is a false religion that is leading people away from the true Church, for the same reasons. You, of course, are free to “KNOW” otherwise and therefore, we cannot really have a rational discussion about which of us “KNOWS” the truth, and which of us “KNOWS” a lie.

Isn’t that neat how your standard leaves us both “KNOWING” the truth? Is that possible? Or perhaps this approach is not a proper basis for ascertaining real truth?

Peace,
-Robert

What unites you with the mormon poster are certain shared truths that you both have because of your faiths. If people would concentrate more on shared truths and less on disagreements, the world would be a much better and peaceful place.

Also, mormonism teaches that there are truths yet to be discovered. It is not limited by a book of doctrine. In other words, there are truths in Buddhaism, catholicism, protestantism etc, But not the complete truth. Even Mormons do not have the complete truth since more truths and yet to uncovered.

 

[why_me]

As for “direct revelation”, Mormon style:

I recall an extraordinarily pretty and charming young woman I met and became friendly with at BYU in 1976. She once told me that many young Mormon men (mostly returned missionaries) had announced to her that they each had had a “revelation” that he and she had “made a covenant in the pre-existence” to meet and marry here on earth. This pre-mortal covenant-making is a popular romantic notion among the LDS. The young lady wryly remarked that either these young men were deluding themselves or she had been a shameless hussy in the pre-existence.

The point is that among true-believing Mormons revelations are a dime a dozen. They all have them and they are just self-serving wishful thinking.

At times, a 21year old lds male can mistake a raging hormone for a revelation. It is only natural. Young LDS women at that time knew the difference.

 

[mfbukowski]

“Knowing” simply doesn’t cut it. If knowing flies in the face of the facts, then what is it that the LDS “know”. .

That the “facts” must be wrong.

 

[mfbukowski]

At times, a 21year old lds male can mistake a raging hormone for a revelation. It is only natural. Young LDS women at that time knew the difference.

And your point is?

How did Peter know? Was it raging hormones? Or perhaps the miracles he had seen? But all the apostles had seen the miracles. What was the difference? Why was he the chosen leader?

 

[mfbukowski]

What unites you with the mormon poster are certain shared truths that you both have because of your faiths. If people would concentrate more on shared truths and less on disagreements, the world would be a much better and peaceful place.

Also, mormonism teaches that there are truths yet to be discovered. It is not limited by a book of doctrine. In other words, there are truths in Buddhaism, catholicism, protestantism etc, But not the complete truth. Even Mormons do not have the complete truth since more truths and yet to uncovered.

I agree. And I honestly also think that some of us are “supposed” to be Catholic and some Mormon.

And in your case, maybe some are to be both

 

[mfbukowski]

In what manner have you received direct revelation?

Same as Peter

 

[mfbukowski]

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

Where did Christ say he would be with us until the consummation of the world, except for 1800 years? He didn’t.

Did I say he would not be with you? No.

Because the Catholic church lost is authority and doctrines does not mean that Jesus was not with those who loved him.

Big difference.

 

[why_me]

And your point is?

How did Peter know? Was it raging hormones? Or perhaps the miracles he had seen? But all the apostles had seen the miracles. What was the difference? Why was he the chosen leader?

Read Paul’s post again? He was mocking lds revelation and how young men tell young women that they met in the preexistence and decided to marry on earth. And they do so to convince the young woman to say yes. I equated such revelation with a raging hormone.

I remember that time well too. It was used quite a lot. Usually on the fourth date back in the 1970’s… But usually the young women saw through it. I am sure that the young men believed what they said but…

 

[why_me]

I agree. And I honestly also think that some of us are “supposed” to be Catholic and some Mormon.

And in your case, maybe some are to be both

I am just out searching for truth where I can find it.

Both faiths are good faiths. Both teach great moral principles. Both faiths can lead a person to holiness and sanctity. What the pope says about our temporal lives is right on the money but so is what the Thomas S. Monson says. And likewise for our spiritual lives.