SteveVH,
First, the notion that Eve or Adam were “tempted” by the words of the serpent when the serpent said “be as gods” is just jumping to an unwarranted conclusion. Of course they wouldn’t believe that or be tempted by that idea. They were like children, living innocently and with no knowledge at all of what evil was or what good was or how in the world the attributes of becoming “as god” were in any realm of possibility for them.
"No. God knows well that the moment you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods who know what is good and what is bad. (Gen 3:5)
Concluding that they were tempted by the words of the serpent when he said
“be like gods” is jumping to an unwarranted conclusion? By what do you think they were tempted? A nice piece of fruit? They were tempted by the very thing that would make them like gods, knowledge of good and evil. More importantly, they were commanded in very specific terms not to do it. They chose to disobey God for their own personal gain.
I’m not sure where you arrive at the conclusion that they were like children. They were created perfectly and were perfect, in every way, itellectually, physically and spiritually until they made the choice, through their own free will, to disobey God. And yes, they knew goodness because they knew God and walked with Him. How could they live in the presence of God and not know goodness? What they did not know was evil, and this is what they chose.
Second, I am completely certain that the one who celebrates every time someone thinks that the sin of Adam and Eve is passed on to their posterity, and who considers it a success when someone follows the belief that Adam or Eve were rebelling against God when they partook of the forbidden fruit, is the master deceiver, joined by the fallen spirits who followed him and lay traps for false beliefs to come into the minds of good people.
Are you trying to say that Catholics celebrate original sin? It was you who said “Hats off to Adam and Eve” in the context of their choosing to disobey God. You’re avoiding the question, Parker. Are you trying to imply that those who believe that Adam and Eve rebelled against God when they disobeyed Him are somehow being led by Satan? How does one disobey someone without rebelling against them? Isn’t disobedience a necessary part of rebellion? I too rebel against God when I sin. It is why I must be reconciled to Him. You have taken the position that Adam and Eve’s choice was a good choice, yet there can be no doubt that what you call good, God called disobedience, pure and simple. How can disobeying God be called good? I feel for those who must go through such mental gyrations in order to justify their preconceived ideas.
Third, I am delighted to have had Campeador link the book of Wisdom and there I find that whoever wrote that book was familiar with the understanding that Adam gained wisdom in mortal life and was an admired patriarchal leader.
I must have missed that one so I can’t comment. However, I don’t think the Book of Wisdom is found in your Bible. Are you saying you would accept it as Scripture? Just curious as to its status since the KJV is the preferred translation of LDS.
Fourth, it has become clear in this conversation that the crucial piece of missing understanding is that there was a pre-mortal life, and that all of us were there along with Michael and Christ (Jehovah). Christ was God the Son in that pre-mortal life. Michael was the Archangel. We were spirits who viewed coming to earth with joyful anticipation.
Eve chose the opportunity for seeing good and evil for what they are, and for gaining experience to gain wisdom. Wisdom does not descend upon humankind by God without the efforts of the person who desires that gift–including allowing God to give them correction.
You would be correct in your presumption concerning a premortal life. It only occurs in the minds of LDS, as far as I know. I find nothing in Scripture to support your premise. Nothing. It is certainly not a Christian belief. No, there is only one who came from heaven and took on human flesh and that is Jesus Christ.
“No one has seen the Father except the Son”. Wouldn’t you think that this would be kind of important to include in the creation story? Instead, it says that God formed man out of the dust of the earth. It does not say that Michael decided to come to earth for awhile and become Adam. This comes from
“another gospel” which we have been warned not to accept.
Fifth, the ultimate head-scratcher for me is that among all the talk of the sin of Adam and Eve and the temptation created by Satan, lost is the crucial question of why God is the author of the first cause of all creation, out of nothing, and thus all subsequent effects flow from that first cause by virtue of the omnipotence of the Creator–yet in the same breath a person can say that Satan chose to rebel and that Adam and Eve chose sin yet not associate those choices with the Creator who created the angel who fell and the first man and first woman and gave them every attribute they had.
The fact that God gave His human and angelic creatures the gift of free will does not mean that God created evil. He allows it, as a consequence of our free will. He did not make us robots, having no choice to decide between good and evil. But that is exactly what it comes down to; our choice. Even if man chose evil, God knew that that He could overcome with even greater goodness. This is similar to people who believe that freedom means being able to do whatever they choose. In fact, freedom lies in the ability to choose what is right and good. Choosing sin makes us slaves.
