Mormons, when did the Apostacy occur?

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Allweather said:
Ooops. I forgot about that. Sorry, Zerinus.
Reminds of something, though. I knew a woman about 9 years ago who worked as an office assistant in an accounting firm, where all the accountants were Mormons. (BTW why is it that so many Mormons work in accounting? Anybody else notice this?)

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You’re keen in that observation, Allweather! Every Mormon who ever had the nerve to approach me with fantasies of conversion (I’m Catholic, the wife’s Jewish: twofer one prize!) was involved with numbers.

And from the looks of how stridently and without a clue Zerinus and Wassup and Alma and ilk write, I would say that their arguments show the tragedy it is to be engaged in a desperate grapple with the English language on a daily basis.

Let us pray for them!

Pax Chrisit
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Allweather said:
Reminds of something, though. I knew a woman about 9 years ago who worked as an office assistant in an accounting firm, where all the accountants were Mormons. (BTW why is it that so many Mormons work in accounting? Anybody else notice this?)
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Not to continue a conversation that is off subject, but I have to ask…
I have noticed that a lot of Mormons are dentists. My cousin is in dental school and said 75% of his class are Mormons. He also said that his friends who go to other dental schools report the same thing. Why are so many Mormons dentists? Just curious…😃
 
nd_smc_02 said:
Not to continue a conversation that is off subject, but I have to ask…
I have noticed that a lot of Mormons are dentists. My cousin is in dental school and said 75% of his class are Mormons. He also said that his friends who go to other dental schools report the same thing. Why are so many Mormons dentists? Just curious…😃
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Ambrose Bierce defined a dentist as “A Prestidigitator who while putting silver in your mouth is pulling gold out of your pockets.”

Kidding aside, they are drilled as younguns’ about Mormon pantheology, so it may be natural to drill for a living after college!
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Now, how many Mormons are accountants who work for dentists? And do accountants who eat a lot of candy visit the dentist more often? There must be a conspiracy in there somewhere. 😃

Paul
 
PaulDupre said:
Now, how many Mormons are accountants who work for dentists? And do accountants who eat a lot of candy visit the dentist more often? There must be a conspiracy in there somewhere. 😃

Paul
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That’s hilarious 😃 All in good fun.
 
Getting back to the subject. I asked when the GA occurred. I’ve heard one Mormon try to sincerely answer it and one who is just angry. As far as the first answer, there is a lot of history out there, church history that is. There is a lot of writing. I have even heard one of the local Mormons whose name begins with Z quoting an early Christian writer from the 3rd century. At what point do the early church writings go south? Have any of you Mormons read any of the early church writings?

You see, Christianity is based on faith. But Jesus gave us miracles, proof of his existence and a lineage of history to help us along. Joseph Smith gave nothing of the sort. And the only way one can “believe” in him is to trust 100% without any proof. The problem I have is that Mormonism is not consistent with any history of the church or any anthropological history.

If I made up a religion today and said that the early Christian Chruch disappeared and God revealed to me the truth. But then there was no proof. And then I said, just pray about it. How could you not believe me but Joseph Smith? There is no difference in the scenario.
 
originally posted by BumpSetSpike
My church doctrine on this is that you cannot derive a true church from a church that has fallen from truth.
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But that is pre-supposeing that The One True Church fell from the truth.
BIG supposition there! No proof.
originally posted by BumpSetSpike
The church can fall into Apostacy but it will never stay in Apostacy because God always has the power to bring it back, he just respects peoples agency. God is all-knowing and He knew the right time to bring the church back
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That is some completely illogical reasoning.
This suggests that an all loving Creator left ***millions ***(!) of his created humans out in the cold of spiritual darkness for 1800 years!!
What a small god that must be. Certainly not The God I worship.
 
Pjs2ejs said:
Getting back to the subject. I asked when the GA occurred. I’ve heard one Mormon try to sincerely answer it and one who is just angry. As far as the first answer, there is a lot of history out there, church history that is. There is a lot of writing. I have even heard one of the local Mormons whose name begins with Z quoting an early Christian writer from the 3rd century. At what point do the early church writings go south? Have any of you Mormons read any of the early church writings?

You see, Christianity is based on faith. But Jesus gave us miracles, proof of his existence and a lineage of history to help us along. Joseph Smith gave nothing of the sort. And the only way one can “believe” in him is to trust 100% without any proof. The problem I have is that Mormonism is not consistent with any history of the church or any anthropological history.

If I made up a religion today and said that the early Christian Chruch disappeared and God revealed to me the truth. But then there was no proof. And then I said, just pray about it. How could you not believe me but Joseph Smith? There is no difference in the scenario.
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The questions that you are asking have already been asked and answered in these threads:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=115490
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=111484

And partially also in these threads:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=117217
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=115490

If you are seriously interested in discussing this subject with me, go and study all of those; and if there is something I have said that you don’t understand, or if there is some additional questions you want to ask, bring them here and we will talk about them.

zerinus
 
Zerinus, each of those threads has hundreds of posts. I’m sure that it has been discussed here. Is there a Mormon site that answers these questions definitively?

By the way, the question only requires a one sentence answer. 1st century, 2nd Century, etc. Considering this is something foundational to your religion, it is imperative that you have some knowledge of it.
 
Bump Set: Your answers are a little ambiguous. I am just trying to understand. Do Mormons believe that there were no remnants of the “True” church as you call it, left? In other words, all Christians in the 1st century eventually fell away?

As far as your teacher’s explanation of the “Gates of Hell not Prevailing”, it is a little problematic for me. Why would Jesus set up a church that would disappear shortly after he died? Didn’t he say that the church would survive until the last day?
 
Pjs2ejs said:
Zerinus, each of those threads has hundreds of posts. I’m sure that it has been discussed here.
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Some of them are lengthy posts, I agree. But if you are interested in what I have said on the subject, you can only look at my posts, and ignore the rest. My posts usually include relevant extracts from the original post to which it is a reply, therefore you don’t need to read too many posts to understand what I am talking about.
Is there a Mormon site that answers these questions definitively?
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I am sure there is, but they don’t discuss the subject from my point of view. If you are interested my replies to those questions, you will have to read my posts, and they are in those threads I had given.
By the way, the question only requires a one sentence answer. 1st century, 2nd Century, etc.
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Actually, it doesn’t. Read the posts to find out why.

zerinus
 
I asked:
Is there a Mormon site that answers these questions definitively?

Zerinus answered: I am sure there is, but they don’t discuss the subject from my point of view. If you are interested my replies to those questions, you will have to read my posts, and they are in those threads I had given.

I reply: If you have different point of views, then you have different beliefs. That is not a “true” church. You answered my question loud and clear.
 
zerinus said:
I am sure there is, but they don’t discuss the subject from my point of view. If you are interested my replies to those questions, you will have to read my posts, and they are in those threads I had given. zerinus
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And there it is. Very little browsing around the LDS sites will reveal a wide array of position regarding the so-called Great Apostasy. There may have been a time, 'round 177 years ago, when Mormons were united in “belief” about the so-called Great Apostasy. But no longer. In their zeal to mainstream Mormonism, which has been on-going since around 1890 or so, they have softened many things, not least of which is the “belief” in the Great Apostasy, and the understanding of polygamy in their economy of salvation.

Of course, there isn’t a single Mormon church. There are dozens. Hundreds. Maybe thousands, depending on how one defines “church.” There must be thousands of holy ghosts giving confirmation to thousands of variations of belief regarding polygamy and the Great Apostasy, not to mention who is in authority. Not a very reassuring fact to consider if you are a Mormon and thinking that the CoJCoLDS is the One True Church, eh?

Just how holy could all of these ghosts really be?
 
Pjs2ejs said:
I asked:
Is there a Mormon site that answers these questions definitively?

Zerinus answered: I am sure there is, but they don’t discuss the subject from my point of view. If you are interested my replies to those questions, you will have to read my posts, and they are in those threads I had given.

I reply: If you have different point of views, then you have different beliefs. That is not a “true” church. You answered my question loud and clear.
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Good! I am glad that I never did attempt to answer your question, because I didn’t think you were genuinely interested in them, and I have been proved right.

zerinus
 
Oh Zerinus, don’t get snippy. I gave you an opportunity. If your opinion of the GA is one of many that your church teaches then I would like to know that. I seriously, or “genuinely”, did not know that this was not clearly defined.

By the way Z, not everybody on this Forum follows your posts religiously (No pun intended). If someone asks me a question, I don’t give them 4 links to hundreds of posts I’ve made. I answer them.
 
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