Mormons your advice...

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ChristIsLord

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First off I would to say I find your faith fascinating and the overall public representation of your Church and people to be very positive. I admire how dedicated the followers of the Mormon faith are, and how they take seriously the commandments, even the very difficult ones.

That said I enjoy reading about all religions and do not claim to have it all figured out, so in my investigation and reading up on Mormonism I decided to give it a go. I won’t claim I read the entire Book of Mormon cover to cover but I read a good deal of it, and prayed if it were the truth and I recieved no witness.

What does this mean if one doesn’t recieve a witness? Do you believe in predestination? Is it possible for one to pray but not recieve a witness due to them not being called by God?

Thanks
 
ChristIsLord said:
First off I would to say I find your faith fascinating and the overall public representation of your Church and people to be very positive. I admire how dedicated the followers of the Mormon faith are, and how they take seriously the commandments, even the very difficult ones.

That said I enjoy reading about all religions and do not claim to have it all figured out, so in my investigation and reading up on Mormonism I decided to give it a go. I won’t claim I read the entire Book of Mormon cover to cover but I read a good deal of it, and prayed if it were the truth and I recieved no witness.

What does this mean if one doesn’t recieve a witness? Do you believe in predestination? Is it possible for one to pray but not recieve a witness due to them not being called by God?

Thanks
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Mormons do not believe in predestination, they believe that everyone has free agency to make choices that can affect their eternal life. If you didn’t receive a witness from the Spirit, I imagine Mormons would tell you to spend more time studying and pondering and then to try again. They might say that only Heavenly Father knows the status of your heart and the amount of sincerity you had when praying so they can’t judge you only to say that a witness is promised if you true with a sincere and contrite heart.

No Mormon has answered yet, so there is your answer from a non hostile ex Mormon.
 
ChristIsLord said:
First off I would to say I find your faith fascinating and the overall public representation of your Church and people to be very positive. I admire how dedicated the followers of the Mormon faith are, and how they take seriously the commandments, even the very difficult ones.

That said I enjoy reading about all religions and do not claim to have it all figured out, so in my investigation and reading up on Mormonism I decided to give it a go. I won’t claim I read the entire Book of Mormon cover to cover but I read a good deal of it, and prayed if it were the truth and I recieved no witness.

What does this mean if one doesn’t recieve a witness? Do you believe in predestination? Is it possible for one to pray but not recieve a witness due to them not being called by God?

Thanks
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I think that people who really want to believe receive a witness of the Book of Mormon. I prayed and prayed and prayed when I was studying the Mormon Church. I finally told the Mormon missionaries that I never received a witness. They told me that I already knew that it was true and should quit trying to pray about it. That was a good enough answer for me at 19 because I really wanted to believe the Book of Mormon was true. Unfortunately, when I engaged my brain in my mid-30s it became obvious that it wasn’t true. This “spiritual witness” is a very subjective experience and Mormons will tell you it comes in all kinds of ways. If it doesn’t come by the expected “burning bosom” they’ll try to get you to believe you’ve had some other spiritual witness which is the “still, small voice” or something else. They will tell you anything to try to talk you into converting.
 
One Mormon told me that the other way to get a witness of the BoM is to just be a Mormon and eventually it would come. He said that is what he had done. ie, he didn’t believe it at all but chose to be a Mormon anyway.

Go figure.
 
I met this woman who was Mormon, I started to attend church with her and eventually converted because I “felt the spirit.” I ended up marrying her and now we are facing a very difficult marriage because I don’t believe in all the Mormon teachings, such as the Word or Wisdom, no drinking tea or coffee etc… When I consulted with the Bishop he said that I needed to pray with a open heart and that I needed to be more involved in the church, so I can build my faith. I studied and “prayed” and realized that the Mormon religion is based soley on beliefs. You have to believe in the Church, you have to believe in Joseph Smith. That is why they have 3 hours of Church Service on Sundays and home teachers and missonaries coming over every other week. To push their beliefs. Don’t get me wrong, they do have some great beliefs such as eternal marriage, but the fact that if I drink tea or coffee and don’t pay my 10% of tithing I’m not worthy to enter the temple, therefore can’t have an eternal marriage. I have researched this a lot because my marriage is at risk because of it. The Smithsonian Institute has never found that any archeological proof that it existed; nothing showing the existence of the Nephites or Laminates in South America. This was hard for me to gasp, believing in a religion based on someone’s word (Joseph Smith) and no proof. If many Mormons would to stop and think, “Hey there is no proof,” then everything they believed in is gone. That is why they have home teachers and 3 hour Church service. I believe the spirit that I originally felt was not to convert me to Mormonism but to bring me closer to God and to realize that the Catholic Church is the true church. That I had to learn it for myself. I still carry my rosary with me everywhere I go, and pray to Padre Pio and God as often as I can. I know that once I tell me wife that I don’t believe in her church she will leave me. I pray that she would open her heart and mind to understand my points. *** As much as I love her and still want to be with her and make it work I feel a comfort knowing that I am followng Christ’s true church. But I know that she will never accept that, because many Mormons have a close heart towards Catholics. Her mom said “I don’t want Catholic grandchildren” and her Bishop basically told her not to be with me if I wasn’t Mormon. I know that there are some good hearted Mormons out there, I wish I new more of them.
 
As a Mormon and grateful for the opinions expressed here, why is evangelizing allowed here?

I ask only for my reasons and not to respond in this setting, to debate, or evangelizing.
 
paulp1002 said:
. The Smithsonian Institute has never found that any archeological proof that it existed; nothing showing the existence of the Nephites or Laminates in South America. This was hard for me to gasp, believing in a religion based on someone’s word (Joseph Smith) and no proof. If many Mormons would to stop and think, “Hey there is no proof,” then everything they believed in is gone.

I disagree. Living in Utah I know that many Mormons are afraid to leave the church for fear of repurcusions from family & friends. I speak from experience- my own.

A few years ago I found some things that bothered me about the Church and chose to chalk it up to “misunderstandings” or “anti” mormon motives. When discussing it with a friend, he disregarded all of the “points” and simply stated that if he ever found out that the church wasn’t true he would still stay active because he felt that the church had too many good things about it and wanted to raise his family that way.

I had another conversation with another friend last week about the same issues, now that I’m taking those issues more seriously and even though he was aware of the archeology and all of the other issues that prove the church is not true, he simply stated that it didn’t bother him because he knew Joseph Smith was inspired.

The interesting thing to me is that neither one of these guys were interetsed in the truth and neither was interested in what God wanted them to do. They wanted to stay Mormon because they liked what the church taught.

I’m sure it’s different outside of Utah where you may not have every single member of your family as an active Mormon, and also have every single neighbor for as far as the eye can see as ward members, where you don’t have that pressure. But it in Utah it is very much a major factor in peoples desire to know the truth.
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ChristIsLord said:
First off I would to say I find your faith fascinating and the overall public representation of your Church and people to be very positive. I admire how dedicated the followers of the Mormon faith are, and how they take seriously the commandments, even the very difficult ones.

That said I enjoy reading about all religions and do not claim to have it all figured out, so in my investigation and reading up on Mormonism I decided to give it a go. I won’t claim I read the entire Book of Mormon cover to cover but I read a good deal of it, and prayed if it were the truth and I recieved no witness.

What does this mean if one doesn’t recieve a witness? Do you believe in predestination? Is it possible for one to pray but not recieve a witness due to them not being called by God?

Thanks
Click to expand...
What kind of witness are you looking for? I read the book at 18 and received a witness but I was not looking for a witness. I just began to read the book and then prayed about it and received a witness. But I wasn’t looking for it.

The book of mormon is a complicated book. I suppose that the first question to ask is: How did it come about? Did Joseph Smith write it? Did someone else write it? Or is it what it claims to be.

And what about the witnesses to the book of mormon? Would they lie about it and keep the lie for the rest of their lives even when they left the lds church? These are practical questions to ponder and reflect on when reading the book. Who knows maybe a witness will come when you are not looking for one.
 
RebeccaJ said:
One Mormon told me that the other way to get a witness of the BoM is to just be a Mormon and eventually it would come. He said that is what he had done. ie, he didn’t believe it at all but chose to be a Mormon anyway.

Go figure.
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Your post does not make much sense. But at least you got your dig in. 🙂
 
why_me said:
Your post does not make much sense. But at least you got your dig in. 🙂
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Her post made a lot of sense. That’s one of the things we were taught to do as missionaries – we were supposed to tell people to live like Mormons and they would obtain a witness of the Book of Mormon or the LDS Church or whatever. To gain a testimony of tithing you were supposed to pay tithing. The same with the Word of Wisdom, or chastity or almost any other principle of the LDS Church. And to some extent this is true – if you live like a Mormon you’ll most likely get a witness of Mormonism. If you live like a Catholic you’ll be more likely to feel Catholicism is true. If the lifestyle works, we’ll be more likely to follow it. There are so many common principles in all religions that the one you choose is likely to be the one you believe in whether or not it is the one true something. At some point you have to try to look objectively at the facts of the religion’s origin to determine where the truth actually is. To pray about the Book of Mormon when there is so much evidence that it is false is asking to be deceived.
 
why_me said:
Your post does not make much sense. But at least you got your dig in. 🙂
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If it doesn’t makes sense, take it up with the Mormons, not me.

Why do you think it was a dig? Because I said “go figure”. Well, go figure whyme. I’m sure there are people who could get a witness of suicide bombing for Allah if they lived that sort of life long enough.

But I notice that you got your Mormon proselyting in.
 
BartBurk said:
Her post made a lot of sense. That’s one of the things we were taught to do as missionaries – we were supposed to tell people to live like Mormons and they would obtain a witness of the Book of Mormon or the LDS Church or whatever.
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Rebecca’s dig was in writing that the person did not believe in the mormon faith but chose to join it anyway. It started out fine but ended in a dig. That was my point.
 
RebeccaJ said:
If it doesn’t makes sense, take it up with the Mormons, not me.

Why do you think it was a dig? Because I said “go figure”. Well, go figure whyme. I’m sure there are people who could get a witness of suicide bombing for Allah if they lived that sort of life long enough.

But I notice that you got your Mormon proselyting in.
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You dig came at the end. The poor soul joined the lds faith but did not believe in it. That was the dig.

I only gave my opinion from my own experience with the book of mormon. I think that it was good advice.
 
why_me said:
You dig came at the end. The poor soul joined the lds faith but did not believe in it. That was the dig.

I only gave my opinion from my own experience with the book of mormon. I think that it was good advice.
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see post #13
 
My advice ONCE AND ONLY TODAY so I ask for patience.

Seek the truth.

LDS for almost 20 years and received my faith journey, from my late mother from Catholicism as a boy ( NONE OF MY FAMILY WERE OR ARE CATHOLICS NOW). I do not and will never begin telling others what IS IMPORTANT FOR THEM OR NOT. For me and I submit for anyone, growing in your faith, developing from scratch, or running from the organized madness (some of my friends call it) is a personal affair, for obvious reasons.

Freedom to choose has been liberating for me and will continue.
I love Jesus Christ and God our Father beyond words to express and I submit, for me, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, has set me free of Satan’s associates. (Sorry for anyone who worships Satan)

Love, peace, and make this a wonderful day.

AS ALWAYS IF YOU wish for dialogue OFF THE FORUMS, you are welcome to contact me. I AM NOT GOING TO RESPOND HERE TO QUESTIONS because today is similar to yesterday and last month and last year based on my reading and review of posts on the forums SO sorry IF ANY OF the ANGRY, PISSED, OR whatever because this Mormon is not responding to your queries here.

Again make it great day.
 
thecourt said:
My advice ONCE AND ONLY TODAY so I ask for patience.

Seek the truth.

LDS for almost 20 years and received my faith journey, from my late mother from Catholicism as a boy ( NONE OF MY FAMILY WERE OR ARE CATHOLICS NOW). I do not and will never begin telling others what IS IMPORTANT FOR THEM OR NOT. For me and I submit for anyone, growing in your faith, developing from scratch, or running from the organized madness (some of my friends call it) is a personal affair, for obvious reasons.

Freedom to choose has been liberating for me and will continue.
I love Jesus Christ and God our Father beyond words to express and I submit, for me, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, has set me free of Satan’s associates. (Sorry for anyone who worships Satan)

Love, peace, and make this a wonderful day.

AS ALWAYS IF YOU wish for dialogue OFF THE FORUMS, you are welcome to contact me. I AM NOT GOING TO RESPOND HERE TO QUESTIONS because today is similar to yesterday and last month and last year based on my reading and review of posts on the forums SO sorry IF ANY OF the ANGRY, PISSED, OR whatever because this Mormon is not responding to your queries here.

Again make it great day.
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Your implication is that other religions are all Satan’s associates. I’m glad most LDS don’t think that way.
 
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