Morphine and withdrawing food and water... is this ethical?

[Roseeurekacross]

Praying for your family and your mum.

 

[mlz]

ray:t2:for your dear mom tonight. Prayers also for you and your family. These are difficult days. You are wise to ask these ethical questions. Hydration is something we all should have even as we are dying. I believe death comes faster w/o but I don’t believe it’s " natural". I went through this with my dad not so long ago. My heart goes out to youray:t2:
mlz

 

[MaryT777]

So we took her off Morphine, she hasn’t regained consciousness… My dad (almost 60 years of marriage) told her tonight “its ok to go and see your family in heaven, I’ll see you again soon” … she will probably pass tonight or tomorrow. Either way, Heaven gains another Saint. please keep her in your prayers.

Will do, prayers for your family continuing.

Mary.

 

[Elf01]

It depends on the situation. My stepfather had end-stage Parkinson’s and had to be admitted to a skilled care facility. He had difficulty talking, feeding himself, was unable to walk, etc. When he got there he decided not to eat or drink anything, said he was not hungry and had a living will which stated no feeding tube, ventilator, etc. He made it understood that he did not want anything to prolong his death. He was given morphine for pain and comfort. He died 12 days later. This is not improper. He was in his sound mind, and had a right to refuse treatment because there was absolutely no hope of recovery. Also, when a person is dying, bodily systems , like kidneys, start to shut down, and when that happens, force feeding liquids or administering IV fluids can cause pulmonary edema and heart failure, making the person even more uncomfortable and causing difficulty breathing.

So there are a number of factors to consider: first of all, the patient’s wishes. Secondly, is the illness terminal and is the person near death? Is there a chance of recovery? Is the patient able to make a decision? People who are near death and unconscious do not experience hunger and thirst, their organs are failing, and as I said, it can cause more discomfort. We are allowed to let nature take it’s course. And of course, this is what is behind the idea of hospice care–comfort care and pain relief. If your relative desires food or water by mouth they will give it to her, but generally artificial means like feeding tubes and IV’s for fluids are not used. When a person is terminal, they usually only add to their discomfort, and often patients pull them out, which causes more harm.

This is not euthanasia. It is not actively participating in her death. It is allowing death to take place naturally, and the body goes through stages in the dying process, shunting blood to where it is most needed, the heart, lungs and brain, and away from the less critical organs and extremities. they may not be able to digest food or excrete urine. Giving meds to relieve discomfort is compassionate care and should not be denied to a pt. in pain just to keep them awake unless they refuse it. Morphine also reduces “air hunger” when a person is dying, making breathing more comfortable. All of which is perfectly ethical in a terminal patient near death, and especially in hospice care.

In case you are wondering, i was an RN for 32 years in a Catholic hospital and took care of many dying patients in the ICU and had to deal with these things many times. So I know that what the hospital and hospice and have done are ethical and legal, and also in line with Church teaching. God bless you and your family, I know how hard it is to be in your situation.

My understanding was that unless he was incapable of digestion a feeding tube would be ordinary care and morally ought to have been given. Maybe that was the scenario (i.e. that he was incapable of digestion) but I want to clarify.

 

[CB_Catholic]

My understanding was that unless he was incapable of digestion a feeding tube would be ordinary care and morally ought to have been given. Maybe that was the scenario (i.e. that he was incapable of digestion) but I want to clarify.

My stepfather adamantly refused tube feedings, IV’s, ventilators, food offered and liquids. He also had a living will. One cannot be forced to do these things, and he retained a sound mind. Plus he was placed in Hospice care. This is perfectly legal and ethical, as not only did he have a terminal illness, but he was dying. One has the right to refuse treatment in such a case.

 

[Exiled_Child]

My mom had a bad infection, when they admitted her (82 and advanced dementia) they inserted a breathing tube - she was septic…Before the infection, she was a happy dementia. she’d sing songs and still recognize a few names… Now there has been a twist, ever since the breathing tube removal they’ve had her on morphine, all day drip, she has good vitals but is completely unresponsive because of the morphine… We signed her to hospice so she could have ‘dignity’ … When I went to the hospital today, and boy do they move fast… i saw she was still unresponsive, she was on IV drip of morphine with no food or water, IV stand was empty except for morphine…Talking to her Dr, the plan of action was to keep her on morphine to make her ‘comfortable’, and only give her food or water if she asked, but since she’s completely unresponsive on morphine, she can’t ask. So the nurse said she’d be unresponsive and in no pain until the dehydration killer her in a week.I asked the doctor how their plan isn’t considered euthanasia, and she said “it just isn’t” … We want her to have a natural death, the hospital doesn’t see how morphine to keep them sedated combined with no food or water is actively participating in her death. Worst part is, Drs say this is a common outcome. So my question is… was I over reacting? To me, keeping someone in a morphine stupor and letting them dehydrate and die in ‘comfort’ isn’t a very Catholic thing. Or is it ethical and I don’t understand it? – End result for today… morphine was stopped, she became somewhat awake and was sucking ice chips… Is it crazy to think letting someone die of dehydration is cruel?

I’m very sorry to hear about your mother. I recommend contacting The National Catholic Bioethics Center, which is in Philadelphia. For a question of an “urgent nature” there is a 24/7 number to try calling. And since we’re talking about your mom, of course there couldn’t possibly be anything which qualifies as urgent more than this.

The National Catholic Bioethics Center offers consultation services to individuals free of charge. You may request this service by calling the Center at 215-877-2660 during regular business hours, Monday - Friday from 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM eastern time. You may also submit your question by using this form. An ethicist will respond to you by email within 5 business days.
If your question is of an urgent nature click here, or call 215-877-2660 24/7 and select option 4.

If your question is of an urgent nature click here, or call 215-877-2660 24/7 and select option 4.

ncbcenter.org/about-us/contact-us/

 

[Exiled_Child]

I’m very sorry to hear about your mother. I recommend contacting The National Catholic Bioethics Center, which is in Philadelphia. For a question of an “urgent nature” there is a 24/7 number to try calling. And since we’re talking about your mom, of course there couldn’t possibly be anything which qualifies as urgent more than this.

The National Catholic Bioethics Center offers consultation services to individuals free of charge. You may request this service by calling the Center at 215-877-2660 during regular business hours, Monday - Friday from 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM eastern time. You may also submit your question by using this form. An ethicist will respond to you by email within 5 business days.
If your question is of an urgent nature click here, or call 215-877-2660 24/7 and select option 4.

If your question is of an urgent nature click here, or call 215-877-2660 24/7 and select option 4.

ncbcenter.org/about-us/contact-us/

They say they won’t give “legal or medical” advice on their website, but it seems to me that, strictly speaking, you’re in need of ethical advice, not medical advice, and your actions will be your family’s choice and not theirs. I don’t know whether they’ll choose to see it that way or not, though.

 

[Magdalen2013]

My understanding was that unless he was incapable of digestion a feeding tube would be ordinary care and morally ought to have been given. Maybe that was the scenario (i.e. that he was incapable of digestion) but I want to clarify.

No, placing a feeding tube IS NOT ORDINARY CARE – it is considered an extreme measure, and can cause a patient discomfort, and in some cases, pain. Dying patients often try to dislodge these, causing more pain and a very un-tranquil passing.

In caring for the dying, we’re doing palliative care, leaving it in God’s hands as to when the patient passes on, and as far as is possible abiding by the patient’s wishes.

Folks, I heartily recommend having an advanced directive and a living will.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

No, placing a feeding tube IS NOT ORDINARY CARE – it is considered an extreme measure, and can cause a patient discomfort, and in some cases, pain. Dying patients often try to dislodge these, causing more pain and a very un-tranquil passing.

In caring for the dying, we’re doing palliative care, leaving it in God’s hands as to when the patient passes on, and as far as is possible abiding by the patient’s wishes.

Folks, I heartily recommend having an advanced directive and a living will.

Tube feeding is ordinary care and part of palliative care, as well as hydration and medications that help the patient feel more comfortable. “Dying” has stages and in the latter stages when the bodies organs are shutting down, ceasing hydration and feeding is appropriate. If it ending hydration or nutrition hastens death it may not be.

 

[Herculees]

Simply, imho, I would NOT want to be without food and water for any long period of time.
I believe it cruel and unusual punishment. Imho, I believe we should an minimum receive
food and water via drip if we can’t take them ourselves.