Mortal SIn and Communion

[davy050995]

I read somewhere that you can receive communion under mortal sin if you perform a perfect contrition and you are not presented the opportunity to go to Confession…
catholic.com/library/Who_Can_Receive_Communion.asp
2 questions…

1. How do you now that you’ve performed a perfect contrition
2. …lol well i forgot this one so i guess only 1

 

[Ponyguy]

** ARTICLE 2: PARTICIPATION IN THE BLESSED EUCHARIST**
Can. 916 Anyone who is conscious of grave sin may not celebrate Mass or receive the Body of the Lord without previously having been to sacramental confession, unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition, which includes the resolve to go to confession as soon as possible.

This is printed in the opening page of the booklets in the pews in our church.

I’ve posted this before, but some folks disagree with what I think it says. Those folks (if I remember correctly) said that the above passage only applied to priests. Granted, it does say that somebody who is in a state of Mortal Sin “. . .may not celebrate Mass. . .” so that would apply only to a priest. But it further mentions “. . .receive the Body of the Lord. . .” which I believe would apply to the body of faithful at Mass. And, if the passage applied only to a priest, why would that even be printed in the opening pages of the booklets in the church pews?

If, in your heart, you sincerely believe the above-referenced law as I do, then your reception of Communion under the outlined circumstances would be fine.
HOWEVER, you’d better get your contrite butt into the confessional ASAP!!

 

[LilyM]

Note that Canon Law says one needs a ‘grave reason’ for receiving Communion in the state of mortal sin AS WELL AS fulfilling the condition of making an Act of Perfect Contrition.

Merely wanting to receive Communion on a given Sunday isn’t ‘grave reason’. After all, in the normal course of things one can easily postpone receiving for one or more Sundays until one has the chance to confess. Indeed one need only receive once a year, so it is by no means an obligation to receive each and every Sunday.

The Canon is primarily there to reassure, for example, a priest who is about to celebrate Sunday Mass (where he must receive Communion for the sacrament to be validly celebrated) but has mortally sinned and has no opportunity to confess to another priest. He can receive Communion regardless, because the obligation to celebrate Mass validly for his parishioners is grave reason.

Or someone who may be dying and have no priest available to hear their confession but nonetheless has a layperson who can bring them Holy Communion. THAT is also grave reason by virtue of their being in danger of death.

 

[Bookcat]

I read somewhere that you can receive communion under mortal sin if you perform a perfect contrition and you are not presented the opportunity to go to Confession…
catholic.com/library/Who_Can_Receive_Communion.asp
2 questions…

1. How do you now that you’ve performed a perfect contrition
2. …lol well i forgot this one so i guess only 1

Ordinarily this is NOT the case. A Catholic who is conscious of mortal sin MUST go to confession prior to communion.

an example of when one could go with just the act of perfect contrition (out of love of God above all) could be the person has no Priest around for a long time…like for example months…and they have some grave reason…

Canon Law

916 A person who is conscious of grave sin **is not to **celebrate Mass or receive the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition which includes the resolution of confessing as soon as possible.

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1385 To respond to this invitation we must prepare ourselves for so great and so holy a moment. St. Paul urges us to examine our conscience: "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself."216 Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.

 

[Bookcat]

Ordinarily this is NOT the case. A Catholic who is conscious of mortal sin MUST go to confession prior to communion.

an example of when one could go with just the act of perfect contrition (out of love of God above all) could be the person has no Priest around for a long time…like for example months…and they have some grave reason…

Canon Law

916 A person who is conscious of grave sin **is not to **celebrate Mass or receive the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition which includes the resolution of confessing as soon as possible.

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1385 To respond to this invitation we must prepare ourselves for so great and so holy a moment. St. Paul urges us to examine our conscience: "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself."216 Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.

PS: grave sin = mortal sin. Grave, serious and mortal mean the same thing. That is when there is a grave matter, full knowledge and complete consent.

 

[davidv]

PS: grave sin = mortal sin. Grave, serious and mortal mean the same thing. That is when there is a grave matter, full knowledge and complete consent.

The CCC does not use the terms grave and mortal interchangeably as you have done here. Grave does not become mortal unless the knowledge and consent elements are present.

 

[Bookcat]

The CCC does not use the terms grave and mortal interchangeably as you have done here. Grave does not become mortal unless the knowledge and consent elements are present.

The Church actually does all over the place. In varied documents.

mortal sin =serious sin=grave sin.

The Church uses these terms in two senses. And in both senses the terms grave sin, mortal sin, and serious sin are interchangeable.

Here are the two senses:
Murder is a grave sin.
Murder is a serious sin.
Murder is a mortal sin.

(all three mean the same)

this is one way the Church use the term. Talking about the ‘moral object’ of the act or the ‘objective kind of sin’. Referring to the object itself. Like if I said…do not commit murder for that is a mortal sin.

Then there is this way…
I committed the grave sin of Murder
I committed the serious sin of Murder
I committed the mortal sin of Murder

(all three mean the same)

This is speaking of when the thing I committed is grave matter …done with full knowledge and deliberate (complete) consent.

Both are true. Both are ways the terms get use in Church documents

---

When speaking with someone as to what a mortal (etc) sin is…that is when it is committed. I prefer to use…“grave matter” (From the Catechism and the Compendium)

So I tell people “murder is a grave matter” and if you do it with full knowledge and complete consent…then one commits a mortal sin.

To commit a mortal sin (grave sin, serious sin…all mean the same thing) one needs full knowledge and complete consent…along with the grave matter.

As for the terms…Bottom line…

Mortal sin = Grave sin
Serious sin = mortal sin
Grave sin = serious sin

 

[Sir_Knight]

The Church actually does all over the place. In varied documents.

mortal sin =serious sin=grave sin.

The Church uses these terms in two senses. And in both senses the terms grave sin, mortal sin, and serious sin are interchangeable.

Here are the two senses:
Murder is a grave sin.
Murder is a serious sin.
Murder is a mortal sin.

(all three mean the same)

this is one way the Church use the term. Talking about the ‘moral object’ of the act or the ‘objective kind of sin’. Referring to the object itself. Like if I said…do not commit murder for that is a mortal sin.

Then there is this way…
I committed the grave sin of Murder
I committed the serious sin of Murder
I committed the mortal sin of Murder

(all three mean the same)

This is speaking of when the thing I committed is grave matter …done with full knowledge and deliberate (complete) consent.

Both are true. Both are ways the terms get use in Church documents

---

When speaking with someone as to what a mortal (etc) sin is…that is when it is committed. I prefer to use…“grave matter” (From the Catechism and the Compendium)

So I tell people “murder is a grave matter” and if you do it with full knowledge and complete consent…then one commits a mortal sin.

To commit a mortal sin (grave sin, serious sin…all mean the same thing) one needs full knowledge and complete consent…along with the grave matter.

As for the terms…Bottom line…

Mortal sin = Grave sin
Serious sin = mortal sin
Grave sin = serious sin

I may be reading you incorrectly but you seem to be contradicting yourself. The bottomline is that the previous post’er was correct. A “grave sin” does not automatically imply a “mortal sin”. A “grave sin” is a “mortal sin” ONLY when done with full knowledge and complete consent.

 

[Bookcat]

I may be reading you incorrectly but you seem to be contradicting yourself. The bottomline is that the previous post’er was correct. A “grave sin” does not automatically imply a “mortal sin”. A “grave sin” is a “mortal sin” ONLY when done with full knowledge and complete consent.

…really not a contradiction. The ‘grave matter’ prob through ye off.

the Catholic Church uses three terms for the same thing…and on TWO levels.

murder is a mortal sin…or grave sin or serious sin. Objectively.

I only *commit *a grave sin if I have “grave MATTER” and full knowledge and complete consent.

I only *commit *a mortal sin if I have “grave MATTER” and full knowledge and complete consent.

I only *commit *a serious sin if I have “grave MATTER” and full knowledge and complete consent.

all three terms are used in both senses…objective and subjective.
*
a mortal sin is a serious sin is a grave sin.*

 

[Bookcat]

One would not want to say…

“a grave sin becomes mortal when there is grave matter and full knowledge and complete consent” for then on is mixing the senses.

Like saying a dog becomes a doggie when…x y and z.

For dog and doggie are two words for the same thing…

one would want to say:

one commits a grave sin when one has a grave matter, full knowledge and complete consent.

or one commits a mortal sin when one has a grave matter, full knowledge and complete consent. To make it even clearer

for grave sin = mortal sin on both levels…

and a grave sin does not become a mortal sin…a grave sin *is already *a mortal sin

for the terms mean the same thing on both levels…objective and subjective…

 

[Bookcat]

This is the way the Church uses the terms in various documents all over the place…even sometimes in the same paragraph such as for example:

Compendium of the Catechism:

1. What is required to receive Holy Communion?

1385-1389
1415

To receive Holy Communion one must be fully incorporated into the Catholic Church and be in the state of grace, that is, not conscious of being in** mortal sin**. Anyone who is conscious of having committed** a grave sin** must first receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before going to Communion. Also important for those receiving Holy Communion are a spirit of recollection and prayer, observance of the fast prescribed by the Church, and an appropriate disposition of the body (gestures and dress) as a sign of respect for Christ.

“Hence, in the church’s doctrine and pastoral action, grave sin is in practice identified with mortal sin.” Pope John Paul II Reconciliatio et Paenitentia 17.

In MISERICORDIA DEI it is also noted:

“Individual and integral confession and absolution are the sole ordinary means by which the faithful, conscious of grave sin…

and in this document: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1998/march/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19980320_cardeal-baum_en.html

“The sacrament of Penance is meant to take away personal sins committed after Baptism: first of all** mortal sins**, then venial. If the penitent has committed more than one mortal sin, they can only be remitted all at once. In fact, the remission of serious sin consists in the infusion of the sanctifying grace which has been lost, and grace is incompatible with any and every serious sin. Venial sins are to be regarded differently…”

nd in ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA

“If a Christian’s conscience is burdened by serious sin, then the path of penance through the sacrament of Reconciliation becomes necessary for full participation in the Eucharistic Sacrifice.”

Pope Benedict XVI in his Catecheses with Children said:

"Only in that case, when you are in a state of “mortal” sin,** in other words, grave (sin)**, is it necessary to go to confession before Communion. This is my first point. " vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2005/october/documents/hf_ben_xvi_spe_20051015_meeting-children_en.html

and here

“The faithful, in their turn, must seek to receive and to venerate the Most Holy Sacrament with piety and devotion, eager to welcome the Lord Jesus with faith, and having recourse, whenever necessary, to the sacrament of reconciliation so as to purify the soul from every grave sin.” vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20070511_canonization-brazil_en.html

and an example from Moral Theology:

“Consequently, mortal and “grave” sins are identical”. P146 Our Moral Life in Christ MTF/Scepter

and of course one can find too references to certain things being grave sins …such as purjury…on the other level the objective level…

on both levels the Church uses all three terms interchangablly

 

[Bookcat]

he Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave **matter **and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

of course … like i said the two senses can be used

on can say ‘murder is a mortal sin’

and one can say i committed mortal sin…cause it is a grave matter that i did with full knowledge and complete consent…

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism of the Catholic Church;

470 In this sacrament, the sinner, placing himself before the merciful judgment of God, anticipates in a certain way the judgment to which he will be subjected at the end of his earthly life. For it is now, in this life, that we are offered the choice between life and death, and it is only by the road of conversion that we can enter the Kingdom, from which one is excluded by grave sin. In converting to Christ through penance and faith, the sinner passes from death to life and “does not come into judgment.”

–hummm no one is excluded from the kingdom for only a grave matter without full knowledge and full consent…what is being talked about here what we also call mortal sin…(for grave = mortal and mortal =grave )

this is just one more example…grave and serious and mortal are used for the same thing…and can be used in both an objective sense and a subjective sense…but we do not want to make one term stand for the objective and another for the subjective … cause the Church does not do this …but uses both for both…

 

[Sir_Knight]

I respectfully disagree. The references that have been cited clearly suffer from a translation problem much in the same way that certain parts of the English mass were incorrectly translated for the past 40+ YEARS. clearly shows that a “grave sin” can be just a “venial sin” under the certain circumstances …

Other sins admit lightness of matter: they are grave sins (ex genere suo) in as much as their matter in itself is sufficient to constitute a grave sin without the addition of any other matter, but is of such a nature that in a given case, owing to its smallness, the sin may be venial, e.g. theft.

… proving that “grave sin” does not automatically equal “mortal sin” in all cases but only under certain conditions – when it involves grave matter and done with full knowledge and complete consent. If any of those elements are missing, the sin remains grave but not mortal.

 

[Bookcat]

I respectfully disagree. The references that have been cited clearly suffer from a translation problem much in the same way that certain parts of the English mass were incorrectly translated for the past 40+ YEARS. clearly shows that a “grave sin” can be just a “venial sin” under the certain circumstances … … proving that “grave sin” does not automatically equal “mortal sin” in all cases but only under certain conditions – when it involves grave matter and done with full knowledge and complete consent. If any of those elements are missing, the sin remains grave but not mortal.

again…grave sin= mortal sin

What you are confusiing is "grave matter"and “grave sin”

and the two levels …objective level and subjective level.

Objectively yes…murder can be said to be a mortal sin or a grave sin (same thing)

but yes…One ONLY commits a mortal sin (grave sin) if they have grave matter and full knowledge and complete consent

Of course if one does something that is a grave matter…but without full knowledge or without complete consent it is a venial sin.

Chief Apologist at Catholic Answers

jimmyakin.org/2010/05/grave-sin-mortal-sin.html

Another Catholic Answers Apologist

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=21264&highlight=grave+sin

 

[Sir_Knight]

Akin’s has been shown to be wrong on Church teaching on these forums a number of times. And, while no disrespect to a Catholic Answers Apologist is intended, I’ll take the opinion of my confessors in these matters – two of whom specifically made a distinction between “grave” sin and “mortal” sin.

If a sin involves “grave” matter, it is a Grave sin but it may not be a mortal sin if not done with full knowledge and complete consent. My previous reference to NewAdvent supports this conclusion.

 

[Bookcat]

Akin’s has been shown to be wrong on Church teaching on these forums a number of times. And, while no disrespect to a Catholic Answers Apologist is intended, I’ll take the opinion of my confessors in these matters – two of whom specifically made a distinction between “grave” sin and “mortal” sin.

If a sin involves “grave” matter, it is a Grave sin but it may not be a mortal sin if not done with full knowledge and complete consent. My previous reference to NewAdvent supports this conclusion.

New Advent is from 1909 or so…(and does not contradict what i am saying…)

this is how the Church uses the language…in her current documents…

mortal sin = grave sin.

it is only a question of if one commits the mortal sin (grave sin) or not.

If a sin involves “grave” matter, it is a Grave sin OBJECTIVELY but it may not be a grave sin (mortal sin) if not done with full knowledge and complete consent…it is venial sin.

If something involves ‘grave matter’ …but one does not have full knowledge or complete consent…it is a venial sin that is committed.

 

[Sir_Knight]

New Advent is from 1909 or so…(and does not contradict what i am saying…)

this is how the Church uses the language…in her current documents…

mortal sin = grave sin.

it is only a question of if one commits the mortal sin (grave sin) or not.

If a sin involves “grave” matter, it is a Grave sin OBJECTIVELY but it may not be a grave sin (mortal sin) if not done with full knowledge and complete consent…it is venial sin.

If something involves ‘grave matter’ …but one does not have full knowledge or complete consent…it is a venial sin that is committed.

You have it almost correct. If a sin involves grave matter, then it is a grave sin. If done with full knowledge and complete consent, it is a mortal sin. Otherwise, it is a venial sin.

As you said, grave sin is OBJECTIVELY determined. If it was determined based upon full knowledge and completel consent, then that would be SUBJECTIVELY determined, which you correctly pointed out, is not the case.

 

[Bookcat]

You have it almost correct. If a sin involves grave matter, then it is a grave sin. If done with full knowledge and complete consent, it is a mortal sin. Otherwise, it is a venial sin.

twas what i said …except that fact is that the terms mortal sin and grave sin can be used either place in this sentence…again I refer you to all the quotes from the various documents from the Church including those from Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI …the terms really are used interchagilbly by the Magisterium etc

As you said, grave sin is OBJECTIVELY determined. If it was determined based upon full knowledge and completel consent, then that would be SUBJECTIVELY determined, which you correctly pointed out, is not the case.

yes murder “is” a mortal sin. or one could say that also 'murder “is” a grave sin…same thing…objectively

i am guilty of the grave/mortal sin of murder when I kill an innocent person with full knowledge and complete consent…

 

[Sir_Knight]

But if you did not have full knowledge or complete consent, you would have still committed a venial sin but it still would have been a grave sin. If a sin involves grave matter, it is a grave sin … grave matter, grave sin. See the connection? But in order for it to be a mortal sin, it requires full knowledge and complete consent.

I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one.