Mortal Sin and Holy Communion

  • Thread starter Thread starter StillWondering
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

StillWondering

Guest
Hello, I just wanted to open a new thread on a very specific topic. I understand that Church has canon laws that forbid Catholics from receiving communion while knowing of mortal sins on their souls. What I would like to ask is the spiritual teaching behind this canon law. I do understand that if we do not believe in the Real Presence and do not uphold the teachings of the Church, we cannot knowing this and receive.

I guess my question is if one person knows the teaching of the Church and tries to keep with it but fails and enters a state of mortal sin. They are in a position where they may not be able to change their life. What is the spiritual teaching of the Church in regards to how they should understand they are not able to receive Holy Communion nor Reconciliation?

Also is it possible for that same person to be forgiven by God and still unable to fulfill the requirements of a proper Reconciliation?

Thank you to all those who have been helpful in the past and those that diligent guild their fellow Catholics. Personally, I have learn a great deal here in the Liturgy and Sacraments forum.
 
StillWondering said:
Hello, I just wanted to open a new thread on a very specific topic. I understand that Church has canon laws that forbid Catholics from receiving communion while knowing of mortal sins on their souls. What I would like to ask is the spiritual teaching behind this canon law. I do understand that if we do not believe in the Real Presence and do not uphold the teachings of the Church, we cannot knowing this and receive.

I guess my question is if one person knows the teaching of the Church and tries to keep with it but fails and enters a state of mortal sin. They are in a position where they may not be able to change their life. What is the spiritual teaching of the Church in regards to how they should understand they are not able to receive Holy Communion nor Reconciliation?

Also is it possible for that same person to be forgiven by God and still unable to fulfill the requirements of a proper Reconciliation?

Thank you to all those who have been helpful in the past and those that diligent guild their fellow Catholics. Personally, I have learn a great deal here in the Liturgy and Sacraments forum.
Click to expand...
From the Catechism:

“Take this and eat it, all of you”: communion

1384 The Lord addresses an invitation to us, urging us to receive him in the sacrament of the Eucharist: "Truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."215

1385 To respond to this invitation we must prepare ourselves for so great and so holy a moment. St. Paul urges us to examine our conscience: "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself."216 Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.

…

The would need to go to confession…

…

And a person with mortal sin can be forgive prior to confession (but they are still not to receive Communion until confession)

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.51
 
StillWondering said:
Hello, I just wanted to open a new thread on a very specific topic. I understand that Church has canon laws that forbid Catholics from receiving communion while knowing of mortal sins on their souls. What I would like to ask is the spiritual teaching behind this canon law. I do understand that if we do not believe in the Real Presence and do not uphold the teachings of the Church, we cannot knowing this and receive.

I guess my question is if one person knows the teaching of the Church and tries to keep with it but fails and enters a state of mortal sin. They are in a position where they may not be able to change their life. What is the spiritual teaching of the Church in regards to how they should understand they are not able to receive Holy Communion nor Reconciliation?

Also is it possible for that same person to be forgiven by God and still unable to fulfill the requirements of a proper Reconciliation?

Thank you to all those who have been helpful in the past and those that diligent guild their fellow Catholics. Personally, I have learn a great deal here in the Liturgy and Sacraments forum.
Click to expand...
Any Catholic in a state of mortal sin CANNOT receive Holy Communion. To receive is to commit the additional grave sin of sacrilege.
The only way back is to go to Confession and make it a sincere one.
 
I attended Mass for a couple of years without receiving Communion because I was living in a state of grave sin according to the Church. That being living with someone outside marriage.

I couldn’t go to Confession because I had no intention of not living with this person. Actually, I didn’t see it as such a huge deal but I bow to the Church’s rules.

Eventually, I stopped going to Mass for a few years.

Recently, came back into the fold and am in kind of a similar situation but with a different perspective.

I missed several Masses and until I can get to Confession, I can’t receive Communion. I went to Mass last weekend and did not receive Communion. I was the only person in the congregation who didn’t which I found interesting. But that’s neither here nor there.

At any rate, I wondered if there was even a point in going to Mass if you can’t receive Communion. I did it for years before and didn’t have a problem with it. But now it seems kind of pointless. I feel kind of bereft not going to Communion. In the past, it didn’t bother me at all.

Or is it just compounding the original sin of missing Mass? I’m confused.

Btw, I think I can finally get to Confession this weekend of the weather forecast is right which is always iffy.
 
GoneAstray said:
I attended Mass for a couple of years without receiving Communion because I was living in a state of grave sin according to the Church. That being living with someone outside marriage.

I couldn’t go to Confession because I had no intention of not living with this person. Actually, I didn’t see it as such a huge deal but I bow to the Church’s rules.

Eventually, I stopped going to Mass for a few years.

Recently, came back into the fold and am in kind of a similar situation but with a different perspective.

I missed several Masses and until I can get to Confession, I can’t receive Communion. I went to Mass last weekend and did not receive Communion. I was the only person in the congregation who didn’t which I found interesting. But that’s neither here nor there.

At any rate, I wondered if there was even a point in going to Mass if you can’t receive Communion. I did it for years before and didn’t have a problem with it. But now it seems kind of pointless. I feel kind of bereft not going to Communion. In the past, it didn’t bother me at all.

Or is it just compounding the original sin of missing Mass? I’m confused.

Btw, I think I can finally get to Confession this weekend of the weather forecast is right which is always iffy.
Click to expand...
Of course you were right about the original situation…i am glad that is resolved…and you have returned 🙂

Yes…one still would go to Mass…for to miss a sunday or holyday…is to add another mortal sin…and thus is worse…

and yes Mass is still good to goto anyhow! 🙂

but i quickly add…no need to wait until Sat!..just see the priest before or after the Mass and ask to goto confession! then if it is after…well one can even ask to receive Communion after confession…

or in fact anytime…just stop by a church or call and make an appointment 🙂

Jesus loves you and is waiting…in fact…seeking you out as the Good shepherd with his grace!

(by the way there can be legit reasons to miss Mass on Sundays or Holy Days…such as illness …or one can call ones pastor for a dispensation for a good reason…
 
StillWondering said:
Hello, I just wanted to open a new thread on a very specific topic. I understand that Church has canon laws that forbid Catholics from receiving communion while knowing of mortal sins on their souls. What I would like to ask is the spiritual teaching behind this canon law.
Click to expand...
Bookcat pointed it our above in CCC 1385, but if you’re wondering where the quote came from, it’s from 1 Corinthians 11:27-28 (here’s the verse in the NAB).
 
GoneAstray said:
I wondered if there was even a point in going to Mass if you can’t receive Communion.
Click to expand...
The point of going to Mass is not to receive Communion. The point is to be spiritually present (a time traveler, if you will) at the Crucifixion, where Jesus offers Himself to the Father as the perfect offering for our sins. Every time you go to Mass, you are at the foot of the Cross. That’s an amazing wonder in itself, wouldn’t you say? And to receive Communion is to add still another wonder.

Betsy
 
StillWondering said:
Hello, I just wanted to open a new thread on a very specific topic. I understand that Church has canon laws that forbid Catholics from receiving communion while knowing of mortal sins on their souls. What I would like to ask is the spiritual teaching behind this canon law. I do understand that if we do not believe in the Real Presence and do not uphold the teachings of the Church, we cannot knowing this and receive.

I guess my question is if one person knows the teaching of the Church and tries to keep with it but fails and enters a state of mortal sin. They are in a position where they may not be able to change their life. What is the spiritual teaching of the Church in regards to how they should understand they are not able to receive Holy Communion nor Reconciliation?

Also is it possible for that same person to be forgiven by God and still unable to fulfill the requirements of a proper Reconciliation?

Thank you to all those who have been helpful in the past and those that diligent guild their fellow Catholics. Personally, I have learn a great deal here in the Liturgy and Sacraments forum.
Click to expand...
First and formost this is a Tadition rooted in SS, specifically 1 Corinthians 11

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=53&ch=11&l=27&f=s#x
27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.
Click to expand...
Bishop Challoner’s notes:
27 “Guilty of the body”… not discerning the body. This demonstrates the real presence of the body and blood of Christ, even to the unworthy communicant; who otherwise could not be guilty of the body and blood of Christ, or justly condemned for not discerning the Lord’s body.
Click to expand...
It’s clear, here that one of the reasons why Christ instituted the Sacrament of Confession, so that we may prepare our selves for the very special gift of the Body and Blood of Christ.
 
Thank you everyone for your replies and explaination. Especially Bookcat who in the first post broke down my question and answered each part in turn.

I realized where my confusion came form: I had remembered 1 Corinthians 11:27-28 incorrectly. Instead of “unworthy manner”, I had remembered it to be “recognizing” what they receive. Therefore I was wondering how one who believes are still not to present themselves for communion if they have knowledge of mortal sins on their souls.
Now that is clarified. I have a follow-up question if I may. What if someone was in a situation similar to Gone Astray in that they are in a relationship that is forbidden. Church law states so. What if they really want to follow Church’s teaching but somehow in their hearts they are hearing God telling them to stay in the relationship. I do not know if someone can hear a call from God that is to their understanding contrary to Church law and teachings, so if this situation cannot exist then that is a fine answer too.

If it is possible to be in such a situation, would the person be better strengthen to find the right solution by receiving Holy Communion? As in the person really wants to find out how they can follow what they believe God is telling them inside their hearts and Church teaching at the same time, but at this moment they cannot find a way to properly do so and receive the Sacrament of Confession. Is it possible for them to be pastorially allowed to receive in order to find their way? If a priest were to do this, did they violate Church law themselves?
 
StillWondering said:
Now that is clarified. I have a follow-up question if I may. What if someone was in a situation similar to Gone Astray in that they are in a relationship that is forbidden. Church law states so. What if they really want to follow Church’s teaching but somehow in their hearts they are hearing God telling them to stay in the relationship. I do not know if someone can hear a call from God that is to their understanding contrary to Church law and teachings, so if this situation cannot exist then that is a fine answer too.
Click to expand...
Short answer - no, it is not possible for someone to hear a call from God that is contrary to Church law and teachings.

God calls to us, in large part, THROUGH the law and teachings of the Church, which He promised to guide into all truth through the Holy Spirit. So to construe anything that contradicts them as a ‘call from God’ is flat out erroneous, and implies that God could contradict Himself.

And no, a pastor cannot dispense someone from the requirement of sincerely confessing mortal sins before being able to recieve communion.

There are cases, such as where someone is in imminent danger of death, where they can possibly receive communion if it is available, even without confession. However, I can only imagine such a case would happen if it were a lay minister rather than a priest giving the person communion, as if a priest were present they would surely be able to hear the person’s confession first.
 
GoneAstray said:
I went to Mass last weekend and did not receive Communion. I was the only person in the congregation who didn’t which I found interesting.
Click to expand...
Culturally, in the united states, an overwealming majority of N.O. rite cathollics do not believe that they must abstain from receiving communion while not in a state of grace. Their priests give tacit approval to this practice. This is evidenced by the following:
  • Large parishes have confession maybe one hour per week
  • Nearly everyone receives communion (see your quote above)
  • Priests do not demand that people go to confession, in fact it is almost never talked about from the pulpit
Compare this to traditional parishes, where confession is held many times per week, including before mass on Sunday; where people are lined up for confession; and many people do not receive communion on any given sunday.
 
StillWondering said:
Thank you everyone for your replies and explaination. Especially Bookcat who in the first post broke down my question and answered each part in turn.

I realized where my confusion came form: I had remembered 1 Corinthians 11:27-28 incorrectly. Instead of “unworthy manner”, I had remembered it to be “recognizing” what they receive. Therefore I was wondering how one who believes are still not to present themselves for communion if they have knowledge of mortal sins on their souls.
Now that is clarified. I have a follow-up question if I may. What if someone was in a situation similar to Gone Astray in that they are in a relationship that is forbidden. Church law states so. What if they really want to follow Church’s teaching but somehow in their hearts they are hearing God telling them to stay in the relationship. I do not know if someone can hear a call from God that is to their understanding contrary to Church law and teachings, so if this situation cannot exist then that is a fine answer too.

If it is possible to be in such a situation, would the person be better strengthen to find the right solution by receiving Holy Communion? As in the person really wants to find out how they can follow what they believe God is telling them inside their hearts and Church teaching at the same time, but at this moment they cannot find a way to properly do so and receive the Sacrament of Confession. Is it possible for them to be pastorially allowed to receive in order to find their way? If a priest were to do this, did they violate Church law themselves?
Click to expand...
no they may not receive…one does not find strength by committing mortal sin…

and regarding discernment…these quotes can be helpful

frjacquesphilippe.com/themes/spiritual_discernment.html
 
pro_multis said:
Culturally, in the united states, an overwealming majority of N.O. rite cathollics do not believe that they must abstain from receiving communion while not in a state of grace. Their priests give tacit approval to this practice. This is evidenced by the following:
  • Large parishes have confession maybe one hour per week
  • Nearly everyone receives communion (see your quote above)
  • Priests do not demand that people go to confession, in fact it is almost never talked about from the pulpit
Compare this to traditional parishes, where confession is held many times per week, including before mass on Sunday; where people are lined up for confession; and many people do not receive communion on any given sunday.
Click to expand...
**
no such thing as N.O. Rite Catholics. Such do not exist.**

and i do not think one should draw the conclusion that people are in moral sin…and it depends on the place and parish etc regarding frequency of scheduled confessions…for instance come parishes i have been had have confession 2x a day on weekdays…and there are always the Cathedrals where they may have more often…

all depends on the the place.

also one is only required to confess mortal sins…of course it is recommended that one go to confession more often…and for some of ones venial sins at least…

in fact in my diocese …they are having extra confessions during Lent in all the parishes…for instance for 2 hours …
and of course anyone can go anytime to confession…
 
GoneAstray said:
At any rate, I wondered if there was even a point in going to Mass if you can’t receive Communion. I did it for years before and didn’t have a problem with it. But now it seems kind of pointless.
Click to expand...
By going to Mass, you’re developing a good habit if nothing else. And though you are living in sin, you’re still setting some good examples. As for going to communion, you must be properly disposed. This doesn’t always mean just being free from sin either. If you find yourself being the only one who isn’t receiving, it may be because it’s a cultural thing that everyone receives no matter what. Know, however, that this doesn’t happen everywhere.
 
Bookcat said:
**
no such thing as N.O. Rite Catholics. Such do not exist.**

in fact in my diocese …they are having extra confessions during Lent in all the parishes…for instance for 2 hours …
and of course anyone can go anytime to confession…
Click to expand...
A couple years ago when I was in school I pulled together a list of area church confession schedules. Guess what the median number of hours per week per church of confession time was?

One. One hour. One hour per week.

So you’re right, anyone can go to confession any time, as long as it is between 3-4 pm on Saturday.

And i am not even sure what to make of your strawman up there. Something like 95% of catholics in the US attend the N.O.
 
pro_multis said:
A couple years ago when I was in school I pulled together a list of area church confession schedules. Guess what the median number of hours per week per church of confession time was?

One. One hour. One hour per week.

So you’re right, anyone can go to confession any time, as long as it is between 3-4 pm on Saturday.

And i am not even sure what to make of your strawman up there. Something like 95% of catholics in the US attend the N.O.
Click to expand...
There is no such thing as N. O. Catholics …or even a N.O. rite.

in the US confessions are all over the place…at Shrines…Cathedrals…even daily in some parishes…etc…and .anyone can go anytime…they just stop by or give a call…the bullitin for example will say '‘just call’ or ‘appointments can be made anytime’ and just and these are all celebrating the Ordinary Form of the the Roman Rite.

when i was in NY City…you could go to confession every day …several times a day if you really wanted…all within walking distance…

of course some places have fewer priests etc…

and as i said in my diocese during Lent they are adding in each Parish something like 2 hours each week in the evening in addition to the normal Saturday Confession…
 
pro_multis said:
So you’re right, anyone can go to confession any time, as long as it is between 3-4 pm on Saturday.
Click to expand...
Nu-uh. Anyone CAN go to confession when they need to, provided they call their priest and make an appointment (and it’s easy to do so anonymously) for a mutually convenient time.

Or even knock on the sacristy door before or after Mass (as long as it’s not 2 minutes before) and ask the priest to hear their confession.

What’s this ‘any time’ business? Even daily confession times doesn’t translate to ‘any time’. Those who work, which is most of us, miss out equally if it’s 3-4pm EVERY day as opposed to 3-4 pm on Saturdays, after all. 🤷
 
pro_multis said:
Um, where have you been that past 40 years? LOL

This conversation is over.
Click to expand...
The term ‘Novus Ordo’ is not a term that the Church uses to describe any of her rites.

and there are no such thing as “novus ordo Catholics”.

There are of course Catholics of the Roman (or Latin) Rite…also called Roman Catholics but no novus ordo Catholics…

there is no Novus Ordo rite.

the is the ONE Roman Rite …which has two basic forms

the Ordinary Form

and the Extraordinary Form

(or if one wishes the Missal of Pope Paul VI and the Missal of Bl. John XXIII…)

(though there are a few other variations…such as those of certain Religious Orders)

This is the Language that the Catholic Church uses…

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificum_lt.html

ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/b16SummorumPontificum.htm

“Art 1. The Roman Missal promulgated by Paul VI is the ordinary expression of the ‘Lex orandi’ (Law of prayer) of the Catholic Church of the Latin rite. Nonetheless, the Roman Missal promulgated by St. Pius V and reissued by Bl. John XXIII is to be considered as an extraordinary expression of that same ‘Lex orandi,’ and must be given due honour for its venerable and ancient usage. These two expressions of the Church’s Lex orandi will in no any way lead to a division in the Church’s ‘Lex credendi’ (Law of belief). They are, in fact two usages of the one Roman rite.” --Pope Benedict XVI emp added …translation from ewtn

it is just that language is important…and it seems to me that it is best if one uses that which the Church uses…and in fact there is not such thing as a N.O. Catholic…

I am a Catholic of the Roman Rite. or of the Latin Rite. (and that is what i am…not a N.O. Catholic…i imagine there was nothing intended by such use…but it is not term the Church uses…and i get a bit annoyed when i see it used…so forgive me if i came off too strong …have a blessed “Lords Day”!)
 
I did go to Confession yesterday. I kept asking the priest if missing Sunday Mass was a mortal sin but he kept turning it back on me and asking me how I felt about it. Was there a reason?

I told him that the weather was bad but if I can make it to the store for cigarettes then I should go to Mass because I was putting cigarettes before God. He said addiction was a powerful thing.

In the end, he told me I had been selfish if nothing else and to do the right thing not what I wanted to do. Or not do in this case.

He was right on the mark.

And I did not receive Communion until I went to Confession. I don’t care what anybody else does. I may have been away from the Church for a long time but that is one thing I do know is wrong.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top