Mortal sin and mercy confusion

[AnneTeresa]

I read the thread s mortal Sin Dogma? forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=584403&page=3

… and am left with some questions. Starting a new thread not to take over that one.

Here’s what confusing…

I want to do the right thing and don’t always do it (see Romans6-8), it appears that all men face this (at least Paul did). So if the Catholic dogma is that we go to hell after committing one mortal sin and not repenting, then how does that co-exist with this passage from Romans about how we sometimes do not do right but we are set free in Christ?

I know I have mortal sin, and really, wouldn’t pretty much anyone who hasn’t spiritually matured to a great extent in their life, have mortal sin? So is there no hope for a less mature person in her faith to be saved for sure? Because let’s say I commit a mortal sin every ten days or so and I am working on it, praying, confessing, but there are maybe 3 days I am in a state of mortal sin out of every two weeks. So I pray an Act of Contrition and I want to follow God but at that moment I have some doubts that I will not really ever stop this sinning and I give in and do the sinful act. So does that mean I haven’t really been repentant and will go to hell if I die before I make it to confession?

How does that all stack up with what people always say, priests included in confession, to trust in God’s mercy, and that remember it takes time to overcome a lifetime of sin? I don’t see how it can be both–you commit sin, die and go to hell… and you commit sin regularly and you are trying to stop it but haven’t yet and you are supposed to trust God’s mercy.

Finally, if a person while in the moment of temptation knows they are going to sin, says “God forgive me” and they really mean it, but they do it anyway (because of weak will or whatever) even though they know it is wrong, what would God make of that? Would they be forgiven or not?

I hope this makes sense. I find all this to be confusing.

 

[PJM]

=AnneTeresa;8205293]I read the thread s mortal Sin Dogma? forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=584403&page=3

… and am left with some questions. Starting a new thread not to take over that one.

Here’s what confusing…

I want to do the right thing and don’t always do it (see Romans6-8), it appears that all men face this (at least Paul did). So if the Catholic dogma is that we go to hell after committing one mortal sin and not repenting, then how does that co-exist with this passage from Romans about how we sometimes do not do right but we are set free in Christ?

I know I have mortal sin, and really, wouldn’t pretty much anyone who hasn’t spiritually matured to a great extent in their life, have mortal sin? So is there no hope for a less mature person in her faith to be saved for sure? Because let’s say I commit a mortal sin every ten days or so and I am working on it, praying, confessing, but there are maybe 3 days I am in a state of mortal sin out of every two weeks. So I pray an Act of Contrition and I want to follow God but at that moment I have some doubts that I will not really ever stop this sinning and I give in and do the sinful act. So does that mean I haven’t really been repentant and will go to hell if I die before I make it to confession?

***My dear frind in Christ: at first I though this was going to an easy one to reply too

“Being set free” as Paul recounts is refers to the GRACE necessary NOT to sin. It’s NOT a statement of eternal and INSTANT forgiveness."

I hope that address that issue for you? If not let me know.

Now for the balacne of your post. Without knowing information that I do NOT wish to know; I can’t be definitely precise.

Are you aware of the THREE MUST BE THERE CONDITIONS fora Mortal sin to exist?

1. GREAVIOUS MATTER [If 100 Informed and practicing Catholics were asked is “such and such a Mortal sin” and over half say: “yes” then it LIKELY is.

1. One has to the KNOW the answer to Q #1 in order to get to this: DO yo KNOW Bfore you so [whatever] that it FACTUALLY IS a Mortal sin? You must Know in advance for it to be one.

1. Knowing it before hand and STILL desireing to do “it” then c9onstiyues a Mortal sin.

That said: Conditions, like habit, addition, or some such factor CAN at times, reduce the severity of a sin.

THIS IS A CRITIAL ISSUE AND MUST BE DISCUSSED WITH YOUR CONFESSOR ASAP.

PERFECT Contrition is the ONLY way short of s MANDATORY Confession [NOT an option to Confession], to be forgiven. BUT Perfect Contrition REQUIRES a FIRM PURPOSE of admendant. Meaning you make a SERIOUS commitment to avoid the “near occassion of sin” and with God’s help will NOT sin in this way again.

From what your sharing this is somewhat doubtful BUT MUST be discused with your Confressor who will have ALL of the facts that I am missing.***

"Perfect Contrition: is in God’s judgment NOT ours. The HUGE variable of HOW sincere you are about not sinning this way again is the KEY. Don’t DELAY; Get to Confession ASAP! And tell the whole ENTIRE truth. You’ll be gald you did:thumbsup:

God Bless you,
I’ll add you to my daily prayer list,
Pat

 

[COPLAND_3]

First I would make sure that you are not confusing some mortal sins with venial sins. Everyone has something that causes them problems. For many men, lust is a biggy. But most mortal sins are not as easy to consistantly commit as many venial sins. The 10 commandments is one example of mortal sins. Murder, adultery, worshipping false gods, etc., are not usually something that committed Catholics do all the time. St. Paul gives a list as well,

Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-20). Paul also tells the Corinthians, “know you no that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards nor railers, nor extortioners shall possess the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

I mention this because I am afraid you may be thinking some venial sins are mortal, and may be overly worried.

Second of all, God is a just God, He is fair, and He is full of mercy. He is not waiting for us to mess up so He can pounce on us. It is true that we need to go to confession ASAP after comitting a mortal sin, just as we need to be baptized to become a Christian. But God is merciful and understands every circumstance of all of us. For the person who plans to be baptized but dies before given the chance, God judges them by their intentions, and will grant a baptism of desire. I imagine when someone who fully intends to confess a mortal sin to a priest and dies before given that chance, God who is full of mercy will judge that person fairly as a loving Father.

God’s love for us is beyond our imagination. He loves us, He is our Father in Heaven. God knows our struggle with flesh and blood, and He will help us to overcome sin, and will continue to be merciful when we fall short.

Your concern and honesty is something that I admire. But I think you may need to lighten up some and see the mercy of God for what it is. If not you will go crazy!

 

[AnneTeresa]

Thank you both for your replies. I don’t know why I was getting so confused. I think I need to trust God more for his mercy and just keep seeking Him every day. If I focus too much on sin it can become a problem. I do understand mortal sin but even when knowing the definition, there are still some gray areas. I truly see how this life is a spiritual battle if we are trying to follow Christ and we must persevere and not give up. Knowing God’s love is essential, as the priest I went to confession reminded me, I need to meditate on that love.

 

[PJM]

=AnneTeresa;8212548]Thank you both for your replies. I don’t know why I was getting so confused. I think I need to trust God more for his mercy and just keep seeking Him every day. If I focus too much on sin it can become a problem. I do understand mortal sin but even when knowing the definition, there are still some gray areas. I truly see how this life is a spiritual battle if we are trying to follow Christ and we must persevere and not give up. Knowing God’s love is essential, as the priest I went to confession reminded me, I need to meditate on that love.

YOUR truly welcome!

If you have ant other questions or issues jusr send me a PM and I’ll with God’s assistance, help you out.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[fred_conty]

I read the thread s mortal Sin Dogma? forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=584403&page=3

… and am left with some questions. Starting a new thread not to take over that one.

Here’s what confusing…

I want to do the right thing and don’t always do it (see Romans6-8), it appears that all men face this (at least Paul did). So if the Catholic dogma is that we go to hell after committing one mortal sin and not repenting, then how does that co-exist with this passage from Romans about how we sometimes do not do right but we are set free in Christ?

I know I have mortal sin, and really, wouldn’t pretty much anyone who hasn’t spiritually matured to a great extent in their life, have mortal sin? So is there no hope for a less mature person in her faith to be saved for sure? Because let’s say I commit a mortal sin every ten days or so and I am working on it, praying, confessing, but there are maybe 3 days I am in a state of mortal sin out of every two weeks. So I pray an Act of Contrition and I want to follow God but at that moment I have some doubts that I will not really ever stop this sinning and I give in and do the sinful act. So does that mean I haven’t really been repentant and will go to hell if I die before I make it to confession?

How does that all stack up with what people always say, priests included in confession, to trust in God’s mercy, and that remember it takes time to overcome a lifetime of sin? I don’t see how it can be both–you commit sin, die and go to hell… and you commit sin regularly and you are trying to stop it but haven’t yet and you are supposed to trust God’s mercy.

Finally, if a person while in the moment of temptation knows they are going to sin, says “God forgive me” and they really mean it, but they do it anyway (because of weak will or whatever) even though they know it is wrong, what would God make of that? Would they be forgiven or not?

I hope this makes sense. I find all this to be confusing.

Hi,
Say someone may feel:
“I really am sorry for my serious sins, and I really and truly do not want to
do any of them again. But I know my own weakness, and I know in the past,
how my good intentions broke down. I said then I wouldn’t do it again, but I did.
So how can I know that I have a sufficient determination of doing differently
from now on?”

We were taught long ago about this type of situation, that is, to avoid the error
of confusing the present moment with future possibilities.

If we have firm purpose of amendment now we shouldn’t borrow trouble by peering into
an imaginary future. Even tho having tried and failed 12 times or even a 100 times,
it does not mean we are doomed to failure forever. Because this time may be the
time that we get over that trial. This may be the very time that we finally succeed
with God’s grace.

But there is something about forgiveness we should be concerned about.
Jesus was asked how often we should forgive our neighbor. In Mt. 18;22, “Not seven,
I tell you, but seventy-seven times.” In Mt. 6;14-15, “Yes, if you forgive others their
failings, your heavenly Father will forgive you yours…”

========================
“I am the Good Sheperd…”

 

[AnneTeresa]

If we have firm purpose of amendment now we shouldn’t borrow trouble by peering into an imaginary future. Even tho having tried and failed 12 times or even a 100 times, it does not mean we are doomed to failure forever. Because this time may be the time that we get over that trial. This may be the very time that we finally succeed with God’s grace. "

I never thought of it this way; it makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

 

[PJM]

Here’s what confusing…

I want to do the right thing and don’t always do it (see Romans6-8), it appears that all men face this (at least Paul did). So if the Catholic dogma is that we go to hell after committing one mortal sin and not repenting, then how does that co-exist with this passage from Romans about how we sometimes do not do right but we are set free in Christ?

My dear friend in Christ,

Allow me to atleast attempt to shed some light on what Paul is telling us.

1st. John 1: 8-10 tells us that WE ARE ALL Sinners. 1st. John 5: 16-17 points out that sins fall into two BROAD catagories. Lesser [Venial] and Greater [Mortal]. Paul in his comments does not indicate which kind if sin he is referenceing. This is because of HIS MATURE Faith, he is completely aware that ALL SIN is abhorant to God.

“Christ” set’s us free is in this appliocation both past, present and furture tense. Because ALL salvaIvation doed indeeed flow through Christ [and NOW through His CC, to and through Christ], John 20:19-23.

This passage in the LIGHT of your placement is “Future Tense”. Meaning that when Confessed and Forgiven through the Sacrament of Reconcillation set up by Christ for this very precise purpose; Sins are Forgiven. Christ is past and present tense makes “forgiveness possible” BUT the Sacrament makes it happen, as God Willed.

For Catholics who are given more abundant graces and opportunities and therefore are judged all the more severily, the ONLY real option for us under normal conditions is the sacrament of Confession.

There exist two conditions when there MIGHT be another way. For Catholics it is a temporary fix that MANDATES the sacrament of Confession ASAP [not by convienence]. And for non-catholics who NEVER HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY to be exposed to Christ Truth, Christ way; then an act of Perfect Contrition, which MUST include a firm, and REAL desire and effort not to sin this way again; MAY find sufficiency of forgiveness with our Just God.

BUT UNLIKE CONFESSION [THE SACRAMENT] WHICH IS “KNOWN FORGIVENESS”, PERFECT CONTRITION MAY BE ONE THING TO YOU ANF ME, AND SOMETHING ESLE TO GOD? Thus only the Catholic Sacrament gives both peace of mind and PEACE od soul.

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10 “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

1John.5 Verses 16 to "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

John.20 Verses 20 to 23" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them***, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”***

God Bless,
Pat

 

[trogiah]

I have in the past been confused about what it takes to receive God’s forgiveness but Scripture has provided some very clear and convincing statements. The most direct of which (to me) is from Matthew chapter 6.

If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions.

Jesus states in many places that we should not condemn so that we will not be condemned. He tells a story about a servant who was originally forgiven but then was made to pay for his sins because he would not forgive another servant.

To my mind the message is very clear: Those who practice forgiveness are the ones who will earn God’s forgiveness.

This doesn’t mean that there won’t be temporal punishments for many sins. Years in prison for committing murder for instance. But God’s forgiveness comes from the practice of forgiveness. There is no way to read the Gospels and come to any other conclusion.

peace

Jim

 

[PJM]

=trogiah;8222762]I have in the past been confused about what it takes to receive God’s forgiveness but Scripture has provided some very clear and convincing statements. The most direct of which (to me) is from Matthew chapter 6.

If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions.

Jesus states in many places that we should not condemn so that we will not be condemned. He tells a story about a servant who was originally forgiven but then was made to pay for his sins because he would not forgive another servant.

To my mind the message is very clear: Those who practice forgiveness are the ones who will earn God’s forgiveness.

This doesn’t mean that there won’t be temporal punishments for many sins. Years in prison for committing murder for instance. But God’s forgiveness comes from the practice of forgiveness. There is no way to read the Gospels and come to any other conclusion.

peace

Jim

Hi JIm,

This is SOOOOOO True! But this is the “first step in forgiveness of sin” not the only step, and certainly NOT the last.

God Bless you,

GREAT POST!

Pat