Mortal Sin and the Ten Commandments

[steve_b]

I have to ask. Then if that child suddenly dies, like in an accident, after deliberately missing service is that child going to hell?

you responded to my answer. #22

Let me ask, did you happen to see the phrase**“after receiving the **knowledge of the truth” in that long quote?

When I was 7, I became an altar boy. Boys in the second grade, and 7 yrs old, in a parish Catholic school got asked at that age if they wanted to be altar boys. We had catechism as a subject starting in the first grade. I learned about venial sin and mortal sin. I knew from the 1st grade, that deliberately missing mass on Sunday was a mortal sin. Could I give you a smooth explanation of that at 7? No way. But I knew deliberately missing mass without a good reason ( like being sick etc) was a mortal sin. And people with mortal sin on their soul at death did NOT go to heaven, they went to hell. As an aside, were some of my classmates doing what they were supposed to do in this area? No.

So to your question.

I’ll just say, it’s not what I think on this matter that counts… That whole passage I quoted, is not from me , it’s from Luke, which means it’s from God. Those aren’t my words, not my rules. I didn’t come up with those consequences. All I can say, knowing what I know, I won’t go against that knowledge and warning from Luke and I’ll pass them on to anyone who will listen, when the opportunity presents itself

Here’s why I take these matters of faith so seriously

Ezekial 3:
17 …whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me. 18 If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 But if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you will have saved your life. 20 Again, if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you have not warned him, he shall die for his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand. 21 Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man not to sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he took warning; and you will have saved your life."

IOW, I’m not graded on being a fantastic communicator of these truths. Nor am I graded on successfully changing someone’s direction. I AM graded on giving information when the time presents itself. What another person does with that is up to them. And we see the consequences for each person described…right?, .

that said, as an observation, these warnings in both examples (Luke and Ezekiel) have no expiration date.

 

[steve_b]

Huh?

Clarifications. Notes.

you responded “Same answers.”

so I crossed out -]answers/-] and put objections

as in

you are giving the same objections

 

[steve_b]

It is the sole responsibility of the Confessor to decide if it’s a mortal sin. You and i don’t decide that.

Who told you that?

 

[Bookcat]

you responded “Same answers.”

so I crossed out -]answers/-] and put objections

as in

you are giving the same objections

Not really…I was as I noted above (Clarifications. Notes.)

But even if it were said to be objections…

such would still be in the form of answers.

(see various definitions of the word…)

 

[NM505StKate]

When I was 7, I became an altar boy. Boys in the second grade, and 7 yrs old, in a parish Catholic school got asked at that age if they wanted to be altar boys. We had catechism as a subject starting in the first grade. I learned about venial sin and mortal sin. I knew from the 1st grade, that deliberately missing mass on Sunday was a mortal sin. Could I give you a smooth explanation of that at 7? No way. But I knew deliberately missing mass without a good reason ( like being sick etc) was a mortal sin. And people with mortal sin on their soul at death did NOT go to heaven, they went to hell. As an aside, were some of my classmates doing what they were supposed to do in this area? No.
So to your question.

I’ll just say, it’s not what I think on this matter that counts… That whole passage I quoted, is not from me , it’s from Luke, which means it’s from God. Those aren’t my words, not my rules. I didn’t come up with those consequences. All I can say, knowing what I know, I won’t go against that knowledge and warning from Luke and I’ll pass them on to anyone who will listen, when the opportunity presents itself

Here’s why I take these matters of faith so seriously

I am sorry that at 7 you were told something as horrible that not going to mass without an excuse would lead you to a place of eternal torment. My condolences.

You know that the gospel of Luke was written well after the time that Yeshua was supposed to be around and that Luke isn’t even the author?

 

[Bookcat]

You know that the gospel of Luke was written well after the time that Yeshua was supposed to be around and that Luke isn’t even the author?

Rather incorrect and off topic.

 

[Vonsalza]

You know that the gospel of Luke was written well after the time that Yeshua was supposed to be around and that Luke isn’t even the author?

There are absolutely no texts in the New Testament that were written during the life of Christ. No one is arguing that they were.

As to the authorship of the Gospel of Luke - detractors often cite 1. Paul never referring to Luke as a doctor and 2. Luke’s use of “we”.

The first isn’t a particularly good reason. All the letters and texts between myself and my wife virtually never mention my actual profession. So if they’re recovered centuries from now and compared to my professional writing, we can conclude I never really had a career or particular professional practice?

The second is easily explained - “I (Luke) wasn’t alone”. It’s also very possible that Luke wrote his while physically having a copy of Mark and echoed that in the use of “we”.

And to head you off at the pass, disagreements about the chronology and sequence of events means very little. If you and I went to the World Cup 2017 and wrote an account of it purely from memory decades later, it would be unlikely that our descriptions would perfectly harmonize.

 

[steve_b]

I am sorry that at 7 you were told something as horrible that not going to mass without an excuse would lead you to a place of eternal torment. My condolences.

On the contrary, You wouldn’t with hold from a 7 yr old child, to absolutely look both ways before running out in the street a useless teaching would you? What if that child was laying dead in the street, having run after a ball, and you never said a thing warning not to run out in the street without looking both ways?
NM:

You know that the gospel of Luke was written well after the time that Yeshua was supposed to be around and that Luke isn’t even the author?

only If you’re interested, here’s an article catholic.com/encyclopedia/luke-gospel-of-saint

 

[steve_b]

I am sorry that at 7 you were told something as horrible that not going to mass without an excuse would lead you to a place of eternal torment. My condolences.

Don’t be sorry.

You wouldn’t with hold from a 7 yr old child, to absolutely look both ways before running out in the street or you could be hit and killed by a car, would you? You wouldn’t with hold discipline if they disobeyed you, right? What if that child was actually laying dead in the street, having run after a ball, and you never said a thing warning him/her not to run out in the street without looking both ways?
NM:

You know that the gospel of Luke was written well after the time that Yeshua was supposed to be around and that Luke isn’t even the author?

only If you’re interested, here’s an article catholic.com/encyclopedia/luke-gospel-of-saint

Consider the followiong

Here are lists of sins that according to the consequences, they are mortal sins.

using those lists in 2 different ways #16 , #30

Is that information important to know? Yes
Are those impossible sins to commit? Nope

I condensed the internal links for space. The internal links are all operational. As an aside, this information was presented to me as a child as part of our catechetical education.

 

[NM505StKate]

Don’t be sorry.

You wouldn’t with hold from a 7 yr old child, to absolutely look both ways before running out in the street or you could be hit and killed by a car, would you? You wouldn’t with hold discipline if they disobeyed you, right? What if that child was actually laying dead in the street, having run after a ball, and you never said a thing warning him/her not to run out in the street without looking both ways?

There is a difference between teaching a child about street safety and not going to a building on a certain day to pray. The first actually helps the child while the other has no evidence to back it up.

 

[steve_b]

There is a difference between teaching a child about street safety and not going to a building on a certain day to pray. The first actually helps the child while the other has no evidence to back it up.

I realize that’s what you think as a humanist/skeptic. I’m not of that thinking nor is my family.

That said,

One of us is right and one of us is wrong. If you are right, and I’m wrong, then no harm no foul. We just die and that’s it. But if I’m right and you’re wrong, you’re in big trouble.

 

[NM505StKate]

I realize that’s what you think as a humanist/skeptic. I’m not of that thinking nor is my family.

That said,

One of us is right and one of us is wrong. If you are right, and I’m wrong, then no harm no foul. We just die and that’s it. But if I’m right and you’re wrong, you’re in big trouble.

Ah Pascal’s Wager. Use fear to get someone to change their mind. Let’s reverse it. What if you are wrong. You die and instead of heaven you see Valhalla. Valkyries flying around and Odin there looking at you with one eye, judging. How about you go to the underworld and there is Charon there to lead you across the River Stix?

 

[Rau]

A child of ten skips church to go play with friends at the local park. By “rules” this is a mortal sin. Now while at the park there is a freak accident and the child is killed. Said child didn’t repent, probably didn’t have all the sacraments, and died in mortal sin. Since mortal sin is a grave offense that child would be sent to hell via the “rules”.

Noone can assess this. But if one accepts that hell exists, it may be possible that the souls of persons dying at age 10 find their way there. Maybe. Personally, I doubt most 10 year olds are capable of satisfying the prerequisires of mortal sin.

 

[steve_b]

Ah Pascal’s Wager. Use fear to get someone to change their mind. Let’s reverse it. What if you are wrong. You die and instead of heaven you see Valhalla. Valkyries flying around and Odin there looking at you with one eye, judging. How about you go to the underworld and there is Charon there to lead you across the River Stix?

As I said, I’m not of your thinking. Shoot, I wouldn’t be of my thinking if it wasn’t for Jesus life death and resurrection from the dead.

As St Paul said In Context

 

[steve_b]

Ah Pascal’s Wager.

Re: his wager

It’s a workable argument

I’m a fan of Peter Kreeft. Here is his explanation
peterkreeft.com/topics/pascals-wager.htm