Mortal Sin Before Death

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So Christ says if you die in mortal sin you will not go to heaven.

So therefore:

A man who follows Christ as his savior endevoured to live a Christ-like life for his entire life. He sinned many times but made sure he repented his sins. He took communion and attended Eucharist each Sunday. And slowly but surely deepened in his faith over his years and grew stronger in his relationship with God. He ensured he did many good acts and tried to show love and compassion to his neighbours.

So above we have an example of a good and average-type Christian if you like. They have their ups and downs over life but make sure they do everything to live a Christ-like life and repent for their sins.

So say this man from the example above comes to his death bed. And an hour before he dies he masturbates and does not repent; therefore committing a mortal sin and dieing in mortal sin.

Will this man be banished to hell since he died in mortal sin? Or will he still go to heaven.
 
Christ said also not to judge remember? So we cannot know.

Also this presumes a lot of things. Firstly a mortal sin is where you choose to go against God and have a definite dislike or contempt for God in line with your sin, it’s not a spur of the moment thing, where we all feel annoyed or angry at God at some point.

So to say someone was like Mother Theresa or something all their life and suddenly hates God completely and then ‘mortally’ sins doesn’t really make sense, though if we must really consider what you propose, I still go with my first point, we do not know.

But by a general definition, those who are in enmity with God do not go to heaven yes, but it’s not just a black or white thing. There is much more to it, and it’s not something that we can determine about others, and very often the person who comitted the sin can’t either.
 
Isn’t it a non-sequiter that such a man in the example ***wouldn’t ***repent of his sin?

Or do you mean didn’t repent in confesson?
 
PePPaR said:
So Christ says if you die in mortal sin you will not go to heaven.

So therefore:

A man who follows Christ as his savior endevoured to live a Christ-like life for his entire life. He sinned many times but made sure he repented his sins. He took communion and attended Eucharist each Sunday. And slowly but surely deepened in his faith over his years and grew stronger in his relationship with God. He ensured he did many good acts and tried to show love and compassion to his neighbours.

So above we have an example of a good and average-type Christian if you like. They have their ups and downs over life but make sure they do everything to live a Christ-like life and repent for their sins.

So say this man from the example above comes to his death bed. And an hour before he dies he masturbates and does not repent; therefore committing a mortal sin and dieing in mortal sin.

Will this man be banished to hell since he died in mortal sin? Or will he still go to heaven.
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I’ve often pondered this same thought. Was someone like this really in mortal sin? Does one act really cancel out a life of following Christ? Would that one last act be a TOTAL separation from God after living the life that you described?? Only God knows, but I find it highly unlikely but then I’m not God…teachccd
 
Newbie2 said:
Isn’t it a non-sequiter that such a man in the example ***wouldn’t ***repent of his sin?

Or do you mean didn’t repent in confesson?
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Precisely…The OP, as myself, probably would mean confession…teachccd
 
There are three fundamental lies the devil uses to confuse us. All of his lies boil down to various combinations of these three lies. They are:
  1. There is no God.
  2. God doesn’t love you.
  3. You are God.
The way you’re framing the question is one of the devil’s favorites because it contains all three fundamental lies.

First, it contains the “There is no God” lie because it makes God look petty. God is perfect. He is immense, in the truest sense of the word. He is infinite. Any God that would set traps for his creatures is no God at all.

Second, it denies the fact that God loves us by simply leaving that point out of the question. The Truth, with a capital “T”, is that God loves us more than we love ourselves. He loves us enough to be crucified so that we can spend eternity with him.

Third, it tells us that we are God because we are more just than the God Catholics and Christians worship. In other words, framing the question in this way presumes that we know better than God who deserves eternal happiness. It also presumes that we love sinners more than he does and are more merciful than he is.

The three fundamental lies are opposed by the three fundamental Truths that all Christians believe:
  1. There is a God.
  2. God loves you.
  3. You are not God, but rather, his child.
God is not up in heaven laying traps for us so that he can send us to hell. He’s not waiting for us to slip up so that he can say “gotcha!!” and laugh as he throws us out of his presence.

God is our father. He loves us. He loves us so much that he was crucified so that we could be with him forever in heaven. He wants us to enjoy this life, and even more, the life to come.

The traditional phrasing of the conditions necessary for a mortal sin are very good because they are clear. The problem I see, though, is that they can seem pretty mechanical when they are not viewed in the context of love, both God’s love for us and our love for him. This is a passionate love affair we’re in, and mortal sin is something that breaks that bond of love. Mortal sin is when someone “breaks up” with God and tells him they no longer wish to remain in this love affair.

Everyone who goes to hell has made a completely free and informed decision decision to go there, rather than to heaven.

This is the proper framework in which to understand the Church’s teaching on mortal sin.
 
Matt_Collins said:
Mortal sin is when someone “breaks up” with God and tells him they no longer wish to remain in this love affair.
.
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So why do people class masturbation as a ‘mortal’ sin. If someone takes captain jolly for a spin they are in no way telling God they no longer wish to be in his everlasting bond.

Masturbation is for one’s owns sexual pleasure and desire. How many people actually masturbate so they can intentionally turn away from God…

And that goes for all mortal sins. It’s human to commit sins and mortal sins. But it in no means states that a person is trying to break up their relationship with God.
 
PePPaR said:
So why do people class masturbation as a ‘mortal’ sin. If someone takes captain jolly for a spin they are in no way telling God they no longer wish to be in his everlasting bond.

Masturbation is for one’s owns sexual pleasure and desire. How many people actually masturbate so they can intentionally turn away from God…

And that goes for all mortal sins. It’s human to commit sins and mortal sins. But it in no means states that a person is trying to break up their relationship with God.
Click to expand...
A mortal sin is a grave sin committed with full knowledge and consent of the will. You cannot commit a mortal sin by accident.
Therefore anyone committing a mortal sin is deliberately turning away from God.
 
The way I tend to envision mortal sin is that, in committing one, your thought process goes something like this.

“So…I know that God doesn’t want me to do this, but I really do want to. Therefore, even knowing that God doesn’t want me to, I’m going to do it anyway.”

It’s turning away from God because it’s deliberately doing something that God does not want us to do, for whatever reason (usually because it is something you really would like to do, or feel uncomfortable not doing, as in instances of giving into peer pressure).

I don’t want to make any judgments about the man described in the OP, but it just seems unlikely to me that such a situation, especially involving the specific sin of masturbation, would occur as was described. I do believe that, if it were to happen, God’s mercy holds no bounds. And, if I recall correctly, there are ways in which a man can repent of sins, in dire circumstances, without the use of confession.
 
PePPaR said:
And that goes for all mortal sins. It’s human to commit sins and mortal sins. But it in no means states that a person is trying to break up their relationship with God.
Click to expand...
Actually, that really is the meaning of mortal sin. In fact, it’s the very root nature of mortal sin. Mortal sin is precisely a rejection of God. Understanding this point of mortal sin in the context of one’s love affair with God is the starting point for understanding sin at all. There is a clear, fundamental difference between venial sin and mortal sin.

Venial sin harms our love relationship with God but it doesn’t break it, just as in a love affair between two people there are offenses that hurt the relationship but don’t break it.

For example, if a husband were to neglect to help his wife with household chores as he agreed he would, this clearly is a failing on his part and harms their relationship to some minor degree. If he continues to fail in this duty on a regular basis, the harm he does to their relationship grows, but never reaches the point of breaking it. If he persists in this neglect, however, he is opening up the door for greater failures and eventually it’s even possible that he will one day choose to do something that breaks their relationship.

Contrast that with something like adultery. If he commits adultery, he has turned his back on his wife in a very serious matter. She can forgive him, but only if he humbly acknowledges his offense, sincerely asks for forgiveness, and renews his vow to be faithful to her. If she doesn’t demand at least that much from him, then she would be denying her own dignity. If he attempts to make love to her before asking for her forgiveness and renewing his vow, he would only be making the matter worse because his “making love” would not be “making love” at all. The act of intercourse would have been robbed of its meaning until he renews his commitment to her.

Understanding the relationship between morality and our love affair with God is the beginning of living the Christian life. It really is all about love.

Study how love really works and what it really means in human relationships and you’ll begin to understand what it means in our relationship with God.
 
PePPaR said:
So why do people class masturbation as a ‘mortal’ sin. If someone takes captain jolly for a spin they are in no way telling God they no longer wish to be in his everlasting bond.

Masturbation is for one’s owns sexual pleasure and desire. How many people actually masturbate so they can intentionally turn away from God…
Click to expand...
First of all, it is the Church, the spouse of Jesus Christ, who says that masturbation is a serious matter, not just some anonymous “people.” And the Church has been given the power and authority, by Jesus Christ himself, to make this judgment. In this regard, Jesus Christ himself says “he who hears you hears me.” (Luke 10:16). So really it’s even more radical than that. When the Church tells us that masturbation is a serious matter, it is Jesus Christ himself who is telling us this.

So if it is Jesus Christ who tells us that masturbation is seriously wrong, and we recognize that it is Jesus who is telling us this, and we freely choose to do it anyway, then it is indeed telling God we wish to break this bond of love.

So perhaps the Church’s 2000 years of experience, together with the power Jesus gave the Church to speak in his name, should give you pause to consider that perhaps, just maybe, masturbation is a more serious matter than simply “taking Captain Jolly for a spin.” Perhaps, just maybe, Jesus himself finds it deeply offensive. Perhaps, just maybe, it is because masturbation seriously harms someone Jesus loves - the person who does it.
 
Matt_Collins said:
First of all, it is the Church, the spouse of Jesus Christ, who says that masturbation is a serious matter, not just some anonymous “people.” And the Church has been given the power and authority, by Jesus Christ himself, to make this judgment. In this regard, Jesus Christ himself says “he who hears you hears me.” (Luke 10:16). So really it’s even more radical than that. When the Church tells us that masturbation is a serious matter, it is Jesus Christ himself who is telling us this.

So if it is Jesus Christ who tells us that masturbation is seriously wrong, and we recognize that it is Jesus who is telling us this, and we freely choose to do it anyway, then it is indeed telling God we wish to break this bond of love.
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Exactly - if you love someone you do what pleases them and avoid what displeases them. It’s that simple.

It’s kinda like a wife telling her husband ‘I love white roses but hate apricot-coloured roses’. The husband may have absolutely no preference in the matter, but if he loves her he will buy the white roses and avoid buying the apricot-coloured roses, no?
 
PePPaR said:
So why do people class masturbation as a ‘mortal’ sin. If someone takes captain jolly for a spin they are in no way telling God they no longer wish to be in his everlasting bond.

Masturbation is for one’s owns sexual pleasure and desire. How many people actually masturbate so they can intentionally turn away from God…

And that goes for all mortal sins. It’s human to commit sins and mortal sins. But it in no means states that a person is trying to break up their relationship with God.
Click to expand...
The masturbation issue and it being a mortal sin is something very difficult to handle. Many Catholics try very hard not to do it and they pray a lot and go to confession, God knows we sin. This isn’t a mortal sin, especially when it is a habit that takes time to break and also mortal sin means you are doing it to turn away from God and as I said before in another thread it’s not a spur of the moment thing.

Also a lot of Catholics do not know it is a mortal sin or something grave, simply because ‘everyone does it’ - which is also not true. So whilst it is a sin, we cannot class something as mortal, it is entirely dependent on the person. Note, this does not mean however that it’s a good thing, it detracts from the point of sexuality.
 
If one lives their life to the best of their ability and always strives to put God first in everything one does, then one must trust in the mercy of God to save one from a mortal sin committed just before death.

We all fall short of perfection and we all sin.
By receiving Holy Communion frequently and going to confession often, we will receive the grace necessary to avoid mortal sin.

Put your trust in the Divine Mercy of Jesus, and recite the Divine Mercy Chaplet daily.
 
Matt_Collins said:
There are three fundamental lies the devil uses to confuse us. All of his lies boil down to various combinations of these three lies. They are:
  1. There is no God.
  2. God doesn’t love you.
  3. You are God.
The three fundamental lies are opposed by the three fundamental Truths that all Christians believe:
  1. There is a God.
  2. God loves you.
  3. You are not God, but rather, his child.
God is not up in heaven laying traps for us so that he can send us to hell. He’s not waiting for us to slip up so that he can say “gotcha!!” and laugh as he throws us out of his presence.

God is our father. He loves us. He loves us so much that he was crucified so that we could be with him forever in heaven. He wants us to enjoy this life, and even more, the life to come.
Click to expand...
Matthew, thank you for your beautiful, clear and well-written posts on this thread.
 
Matt_Collins said:
First of all, it is the Church, the spouse of Jesus Christ, who says that masturbation is a serious matter, not just some anonymous “people.” And the Church has been given the power and authority, by Jesus Christ himself, to make this judgment. In this regard, Jesus Christ himself says “he who hears you hears me.” (Luke 10:16). So really it’s even more radical than that. When the Church tells us that masturbation is a serious matter, it is Jesus Christ himself who is telling us this.

So if it is Jesus Christ who tells us that masturbation is seriously wrong, and we recognize that it is Jesus who is telling us this, and we freely choose to do it anyway, then it is indeed telling God we wish to break this bond of love.

So perhaps the Church’s 2000 years of experience, together with the power Jesus gave the Church to speak in his name, should give you pause to consider that perhaps, just maybe, masturbation is a more serious matter than simply “taking Captain Jolly for a spin.” Perhaps, just maybe, Jesus himself finds it deeply offensive. Perhaps, just maybe, it is because masturbation seriously harms someone Jesus loves - the person who does it.
Click to expand...
This is the best post I’ve ever seen on this subject. Bravo!

Peace!
 
PePPaR said:
So Christ says if you die in mortal sin you will not go to heaven.

So therefore:

A man who follows Christ as his savior endevoured to live a Christ-like life for his entire life. He sinned many times but made sure he repented his sins. He took communion and attended Eucharist each Sunday. And slowly but surely deepened in his faith over his years and grew stronger in his relationship with God. He ensured he did many good acts and tried to show love and compassion to his neighbours.

So above we have an example of a good and average-type Christian if you like. They have their ups and downs over life but make sure they do everything to live a Christ-like life and repent for their sins.

So say this man from the example above comes to his death bed. And an hour before he dies he masturbates and does not repent; therefore committing a mortal sin and dieing in mortal sin.

Will this man be banished to hell since he died in mortal sin? Or will he still go to heaven.
Click to expand...
 
Matt_Collins said:
There are three fundamental lies the devil uses to confuse us. All of his lies boil down to various combinations of these three lies. They are:
  1. There is no God.
  2. God doesn’t love you.
  3. You are God.
The way you’re framing the question is one of the devil’s favorites because it contains all three fundamental lies.

First, it contains the “There is no God” lie because it makes God look petty. God is perfect. He is immense, in the truest sense of the word. He is infinite. Any God that would set traps for his creatures is no God at all.

Second, it denies the fact that God loves us by simply leaving that point out of the question. The Truth, with a capital “T”, is that God loves us more than we love ourselves. He loves us enough to be crucified so that we can spend eternity with him.

Third, it tells us that we are God because we are more just than the God Catholics and Christians worship. In other words, framing the question in this way presumes that we know better than God who deserves eternal happiness. It also presumes that we love sinners more than he does and are more merciful than he is.

The three fundamental lies are opposed by the three fundamental Truths that all Christians believe:
  1. There is a God.
  2. God loves you.
  3. You are not God, but rather, his child.
God is not up in heaven laying traps for us so that he can send us to hell. He’s not waiting for us to slip up so that he can say “gotcha!!” and laugh as he throws us out of his presence.

God is our father. He loves us. He loves us so much that he was crucified so that we could be with him forever in heaven. He wants us to enjoy this life, and even more, the life to come.

The traditional phrasing of the conditions necessary for a mortal sin are very good because they are clear. The problem I see, though, is that they can seem pretty mechanical when they are not viewed in the context of love, both God’s love for us and our love for him. This is a passionate love affair we’re in, and mortal sin is something that breaks that bond of love. Mortal sin is when someone “breaks up” with God and tells him they no longer wish to remain in this love affair.

Everyone who goes to hell has made a completely free and informed decision decision to go there, rather than to heaven.

This is the proper framework in which to understand the Church’s teaching on mortal sin.
Click to expand...
You are my new hero! 🙂

…in a entirely manly and,… MANLY way, of course! How 'bout them Bears, eh?
 
I do not understand your question. If I am reading this correctly, you are saying that a man is dying and before he dies, he is masturbating? If a person is on his death bed, why would he masturbate? If I were dying, I would be concerned in making an act of contrition, it does not necessarily have to be a perfect act of contrition. Let me tell you something. If you did masturbate, all you have to say is: Jesus, be Merciful to me a sinner. You will be saved because you are calling out the name “Jesus” and if you are sincere about it you would be saved.

We do not know why you masturbated and only God is a Merciful God and loves us no matter what. That final decision is in God’s hands.

I might be missing the picture, why would you be masturbating if you are dying or are you saying, you have masturbated and if you die would you go to hell? Leave it in the hands of God because only He knows why you would have masturbated. Maybe you were anxious about something? When masturbation is done for other reasons or just for the pleasure of it, the circumstances change.

All I know is true is, if you say. “Jesus, be Merciful to me a sinner” you will be saved because you are calling out Jesus’ name.

I do not know if this is what you were asking.
 
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