Mortal sin easy or difficult to commit?

[Bookcat]

If God is placed first in ones life and if one seeks only to please Him - then sinning of any kind is difficult.

I would not put it that way --for the Church teaches that we have venial sins…that we normally do not avoid them all…we will have some…and indeed we pray daily “forgive us our trespasses” for our “daily sins” (venial sins).

So I do not think such would be an apt description there. Sure those who have attained by grace great holiness --the Canonized Saints - have a greater difficulty with any deliberate sin perhaps…but for most of us who are --saints by Baptism into Christ --but not yet Saints of that sort - and who yes seek to follow Christ and put God First – we will still find that we sin venially -all too easily.

 

[KrazyKat]

Such is not the case.

When we sin we are breaking the first commandment, a grave sin.

 

[Bookcat]

Could you give me your opinion on the idea that freely choosing to commit even a small sin - with sufficient knowledge - also involves a sin against the first (and greatest) commandment?

Peace
James

Hum…

St. Thomas held that venial sin was not “against” the law (contra legem) but “apart from the law” (praeter legem).

One could fill books with discussing that question I imagine in its various aspects.

In any case venial sin does not harm charity within us - it does not separate us from the love of God.

But they as they mount up certainly makes that love less active - less vibrant etc. And they can weaken us where we may commit more easily a mortal sin…

Certainly it is important to repent daily of ones venial sins --and even more often - especially with acts of love…and faith and hope.

Indeed frequent short prayers of all sorts help keep ones heart turned towards God.

 

[Bookcat]

When we sin we are breaking the first commandment, a grave sin.

We only commit a grave sin (mortal/serious) when there is grave matter, full knowledge and deliberate consent. see forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11556746&postcount=10

 

[JRKH]

We only commit a grave sin (mortal/serious) when there is grave matter, full knowledge and deliberate consent. see forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11556746&postcount=10

Can one break the first commandment in a way that would not be grave matter?

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

Fair enough…

Could you give me your opinion on the idea that freely choosing to commit even a small sin - with sufficient knowledge - also involves a sin against the first (and greatest) commandment?

Peace
James

Can one break the first commandment in a way that would not be grave matter?

Peace
James

Referring to the first commandment of the 10 or the “Greatest”…?

 

[JRKH]

Referring to the first commandment of the 10 or the “Greatest”…?

They are one in the same are they not? From Matthew 22…
34 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sad’ducees, they came together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him. 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

They are one in the same are they not? From Matthew 22…
[/INDENT]

Not exactly.

The question there was regarding in the Torah. And the greatest commandment.

The “first” there is in relation to the “second” of the love of neighbor…

The “first” of the Ten commandments (in numerical order) is of course related but is not the exactly the same. It is about worshiping only God…(which of course is certainly part of loving God with all your heart…love is certainly part of the first of the Ten…)

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

First, I think there is a misunderstanding on coveting. To covet is to desire for one, but
for two, it is allowing yourself to be consumed by desiring another’s belongings (or par-
tner), and that you allow it to drive you into doing whatever to get it. If you try to shrug
it off, and succeed, it’s venial at best. Now, if you look at a pretty person, have desires,
then try and succeed to shrug it off in 0.5 to 1 seconds, and carry on, again is venial at
best. It is very easy to fall into sin, but it’s difficult to remain in sin as a Christian.

Why hard to remain? The Holy Spirit will kick your conscious in the rear end of course.

There is no conquering sin in this life, we can’t do it on our own. That is why Jesus came, to
fulfill the Law on our behalf. The Pharisees were pretty good at keeping the Law, but not per-
fectly, and Jesus said that unless any of us can be better than the Pharisee, who aren’t even
“good enough,” we are doomed. Again though, Jesus came so that doesn’t have to be so, for
he lived out the Law perfectly and died the perfect death, that way we can cling to him and be
righteous before God BY him.

We ought not try to make excuses for sins, but confess that we are evil to the very core.
We are all evil, not one of us is good, no not one. Even if we don’t make excuses, we’ll
still commit evil, and even if we try not to, we’ll fail. We need our Lord and Savior, who
suffered the Wrath of God so that we might not have to.

Once you confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, you’ll still hopelessly be a sinner, but you
won’t be able to live in sin. Already you’re scared and guilty, which is good, but you al-
so need to trust that Jesus Christ is the Savior and that ONLY WITHOUT him you are
doomed, but WITH him, you can be saved.

Why are we tempted? The Devil hates us. Why does God
allow it? Well are we with him or against him? It’s a test.

Final Comforting Words:For a just man shall fall seven times
and shall rise again: but the wicked
shall fall down into evil.
– (Proverbs 24:16)

 

[JRKH]

They are not.

The question there was regarding in the Torah. And the greatest commandment.

The “first” of the Ten commandments (in numerical order) is of course related but is not the same. It is about worshiping only God…

OK - my bad - - getting a bit confused here I guess. When I look in the Catechism, above the first three numerical commands we find this…

PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST

SECTION TWO
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

CHAPTER ONE
“YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND”

Which of course is what Jesus declared to be the greatest and (with the second greatest) the foundation of all the Law and the Prophets.

So I guess my question - specifically is related to the greatest commandment (which the Catechism sees as encompassing the first three numerical commands.

Can one break the greatest commandment in a way that is not grave matter?

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

So I guess my question - specifically is related to the greatest commandment (which the Catechism sees as encompassing the first three numerical commands.

Can one break the greatest commandment in a way that is not grave matter?

Peace
James

Let me change a bit the question to make it easier on me

Can there be venial sin committed in terms of the first three commandments?

Can there be “parvity of matter” (smallness of matter) in the first three commandments? Yes. Can there also be venial sin due to lack of advertence or deliberate consent where the matter is grave? Yes.

As to the use of the term “break” --that would be a longer discussion…

St. Thomas held that venial sin was not “against” the law (contra legem) but “apart from the law” (praeter legem).

One could fill books with discussing that question I imagine in its various aspects.

In any case venial sin does not harm charity within us - it does not separate us from the love of God.

But they as they mount up certainly makes that love less active - less vibrant etc. And they can weaken us where we may commit more easily a mortal sin…

Certainly it is important to repent daily of ones venial sins --and even more often - especially with acts of love…and faith and hope.

Indeed frequent short prayers of all sorts help keep ones heart turned towards God.

 

[JRKH]

Let me change a bit the question to make it easier on me

But I’m not interested in making it easier for you……

Can one - with knowledge and consent - fail to love God above all else in a small way? I have to question that this is possible in spite of what St Thomas Aquinas might say.
Frankly St Tom has a tendency to split hairs a bit too fine for my taste.

Can there be venial sin committed in terms of the first three commandments?

Certainly - where intent or circumstances or ignorance or other factors play in.

Can there be “parvity of matter” (smallness of matter) in the first three commandments? Yes. Can there also be venial sin due to lack of advertence or deliberate consent where the matter is grave? Yes.

Agreed - depending on how the various aspects of the three things (matter, knowledge and consent) interplay.

As to the use of the term “break” --that would be a longer discussion…

Fair enough - but in discussing “Mortal” sin break seems the appropriate word.

In any case venial sin does not harm charity within us - it does not separate us from the love of God.

Actually venial sin DOES harm Charity…1863 of the Catechism says that, "Venial sin weakens charity;

But they as they mount up certainly makes that love less active - less vibrant etc. And they can weaken us where we may commit more easily a mortal sin…

Yes and such continual weakening would constitute harm in my book.

Certainly it is important to repent daily of ones venial sins --and even more often - especially with acts of love…and faith and hope.

Indeed frequent short prayers of all sorts help keep ones heart turned towards God.

Amen

Don’t mean to be a pain on these matters…
I think in some ways I’m like this because I struggle so much with these things myself.

Peace
James

 

[Soufanieh]

Well, lets look at what the Church does for mortal sin and what Jesus did. Jesus died for our sin, our mortal sin, because that is the one that would keep us from heaven. The Church has the ability to forgive sin through the sacrament of confession and even the power to forgive the consequence of sin through baptism or indulgences.
The CHurch under guidance of the Holy Spirit has mandated that a Catholic MUST go to confession at LEAST once a year. What the Church is saying is that no matter who you are, no matter if you are a cardinal, a nun, a Catholic in the pew, or a future saint like Mother Theresa you Have to go to confession at least once a year. And if you study the saints and the Popes you will find that the most Holy, Most pious people in our faith commited mortal sin often and went to confession often.
If I ever met someone older than 7 who ever said “I only commited one mortal sin my entire life” I would think they were not really able to evaluate their own conscience. Or I would think they were close to Mary in virtue.

That being said, Mary was sinless and she was human. And we have to have faith that we can be sinless because Jesus tells the woman to “Go and sin no more” which would make Jesus a lunatic if he gave her a command she could not follow. So it is possible I am sure.

Honestly, I cannot go very long without breaking the 1st commandment. I put other “gods” before God often. I also do not love my neighbor as myself. And those would seem to be the Gravest offences, and honestly all the other commands flow from those two.

This is a very wise post.

 

[Bookcat]

Fair enough - but in discussing “Mortal” sin break seems the appropriate word.

Yes for mortal sin - “break” would be apt.

 

[Bookcat]

Actually venial sin DOES harm Charity…1863 of the Catechism says that, "Venial sin weakens charity;

Yes and such continual weakening would constitute harm in my book.

Harm in terms of lessening. Weakening does not mean “lessen” -it is weaker in the exercise of charity…

And yes continual unrepented venial sin can “dispose” one even towards committing mortal sin.

 

[JRKH]

Harm in terms of lessening. Weakening does not mean “lessen” -it is weaker in the exercise of charity…

And yes continual unrepented venial sin can “dispose” one even towards committing mortal sin.

hhmmmm…

That strikes me as the sort of hair splitting that I don’t care for.
Venial sin “weakens charity”…If something is weakened it is because some harm has come to it. Therefore, venial sin harms charity.

At least that is my take.

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

But I’m not interested in making it easier for you……

Can one - with knowledge and consent - fail to love God above all else in a small way?

If one means - can there be “smallness of matter” under many of the commandments…so can one with full knowledge and complete consent commit that which is venial matter? and thus sin venially? Yes.

Say one can eat too much Cake at Christmas (usually a venial matter…) - even with full knowledge and deliberate consent - and commit a venial sin.

But to chose to make Cake your God - worship it – to make it your last end…etc to love Cake more than God and thus choose to take kill your brother for that last piece of cake…or skip Sunday Mass so you can be alone with the Cake…that is* mortal sin* (assuming the needed knowledge and consent).

 

[Bookcat]

hhmmmm…

That strikes me as the sort of hair splitting that I don’t care for.
Venial sin “weakens charity”…If something is weakened it is because some harm has come to it. Therefore, venial sin harms charity.

At least that is my take.

Peace
James

Clarity is not hair splitting. Your asking particular questions which need particular answers. Terms are important. They are part of a science such as Theology.

Always distinguish.

The degree of charity is not affected by venial sin --but the exercise of it is.

 

[JRKH]

Clarity is not hair splitting. Your asking particular questions which need particular answers. Terms are important. They are part of a science such as Theology.

Always distinguish.

Point taken

The degree of charity is not affected by venial sin --but the exercise of it is.

hhmmmm…Gotta ponder that one.
My gut reaction is that I don’t agree with this.

Can one separate the “degree” of charity from the “exercise” of charity?

Peace
James

 

[Soufanieh]

“kick your conscious in the rear end of course.”

I think you mean conscience, don’t you?