Mortal Sin in the Marriage Bed.

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Yes, it would still be grave matter so if the other 2 conditions are met for it to be a mortal sin, it would be a mortal sin. Sorry but the Church is quite clear when it comes to the marriage bed. If a person cannot accept what the Church has declared when it comes to marital relations then perhaps that person should seriously reconsider getting married or seriously reconsider whether or not their marriage should be a sexual one instead of a Josephite one.
 
I know of a couple with this exact case. The wife is subject to miscarriages. I think she already had a couple. Any pregancy could end up in a miscarriage. So, they have decided that they won’t have intercourse until her child-bearing years are over.

So, yes, it can be done!
Dang that’s drastic!

Poor couple.

What keeps this couple from learning about the natural fertility patterns of the woman’s cycle?

The world of NFP has come a long way from your mother’s Billings Method.
creightonmodel.com/effectiveness.htm
 
Dang that’s drastic!

Poor couple.

What keeps this couple from learning about the natural fertility patterns of the woman’s cycle?

The world of NFP has come a long way from your mother’s Billings Method.
creightonmodel.com/effectiveness.htm
Yes, it does sound drastic. But if their conscience has led them to believe that this is the only acceptable option then good for them! 👍 I highly applaud people like that who follow their conscience regardless of how tough it may make their own lives.
 
But that was before marriage.

To practice abstinence *within *a marriage is totally a different story
Someone else mentioned that it’s an act of virtue when chosen together for the sake of their marriage, their love, and their love-making.

Theology of the Body has a lot about lust-driven sex in marriage vs. love-driven sex. True love can abstain. Lust brings us down to the level of the animals. We have free will and dominion over our animal instincts. We are made in the image of God.
 
I highly applaud people like that who follow their conscience regardless of how tough it may make their own lives.
So do I. Unless it’s driven by fear of the consequences of the marital act, rather than trust in the Lord that He would protect them, if they act in good faith by using NFP during the wife’s fertile times.

God created the marital embrace to be unitive. I believe couples can abstain in holy and virtuous continence. Maybe the couple in question is a saintly couple like that. Or they might just be afraid and not trusting, which could take a serious toll on their marriage.
 
I don’t understand this. A pregnancy might in miscarriage, but hen again, it might not. In either case, why not leave it up to God? A miscarriage is not sinful. Why are they abstaining? Is the miscarriage a threat to her life?

God Bless
Doesn’t confuse me at all. Aside from the heartbreak, repeated miscarriages can cause weakening of the walls of the womb making the possibility of hemorrhage and death very real…
 
Here is an intersting twist: What if the wife is already pregnant and put on pelvic rest?
Temporary abstinence out of love for his wife. Same thing with temporary abstinence following childbirth.

Or temporary abstinence when the wife goes shopping, or the husband goes on a business trip, or while you’re eating dinner, or when you go to Mass. 😛
 
Doesn’t confuse me at all. Aside from the heartbreak, repeated miscarriages can cause weakening of the walls of the womb making the possibility of hemorrhage and death very real…
It doesn’t confuse me either but it doesn’t confuse me for a different reason. My reason being that why would you want to continue having sex during your fertile times or at all if you just know that in all likelihood, any child you conceive is just going to die? Would that not make a person very sad to know that they are engaging in sexual activity that will likely lead to the death of a person with a soul?
 
I don’t understand this. A pregnancy might in miscarriage, but hen again, it might not. In either case, why not leave it up to God? A miscarriage is not sinful. Why are they abstaining? Is the miscarriage a threat to her life?

God Bless
Don’t overlook the emotional toll of multiple miscarriages. We’ve suffered two in a row, and for the second I found my wife on the floor in a pool of blood holding our dead child. We are not capable of enduring that again. It took us a year to recover. I could never believe God wants us to play “miscarriage roulette” that way.
 
It doesn’t confuse me either but it doesn’t confuse me for a different reason. My reason being that why would you want to continue having sex during your fertile times or at all if you just know that in all likelihood, any child you conceive is just going to die? Would that not make a person very sad to know that they are engaging in sexual activity that will likely lead to the death of a person with a soul?
Well, my Grandmother had multiple miscarriages, two later in term (don’t know how many earlier) and also a stillbirth. This was the 1930’s-50’s, so they probably didn’t understand the causes. But she also had my Mother (after eight years of marriage), and eight years later, my Uncle. I may have aunts and uncles in Heaven or Limbo.

I’m really glad she didn’t stop having marital relations, or I wouldn’t be here.

I’m sure it is emotionally devastating, but we know nothing bad will happen to these souls. They will never suffer, b/c they have no actual sin. At worst, they will have perpetual natural happiness in limbo.

God Bless
 
Temporary abstinence out of love for his wife. Same thing with temporary abstinence following childbirth.
Why shut the door on the wife wanting to please and love her husband?

Were all these marital regulations made up by celibate men?

God Bless!
 
Theology of the Body has a lot about lust-driven sex in marriage vs. love-driven sex. True love can abstain. Lust brings us down to the level of the animals. We have free will and dominion over our animal instincts. We are made in the image of God.
When I think of “love” thoughts of personal sacrifice, generosity, mutual faith prayer, child rearing, diapers, runny noses, family, duty, easily come to mind. Men understand the importance of these things in a stable and Godly marriage. But…

I would suspect that for most men like myself, these beautiful aspects of true mature married love keep us guys faithful and loving toward our wives, but have almost nothing to do with sexual arousal and are totally incompatible with with the intense physical aspect of the sexual experience. It seems that a lot of theologians have associated all physical aspects of our sexuality as “lust” and therefore sinful!

:cool:
 
Don’t overlook the emotional toll of multiple miscarriages. We’ve suffered two in a row, and for the second I found my wife on the floor in a pool of blood holding our dead child. We are not capable of enduring that again. It took us a year to recover. I could never believe God wants us to play “miscarriage roulette” that way.
I’m very sorry for your losses. My wife and I have been trying to have children for 2.5 years with no luck yet. I often wonder whether we are failing to conceive, or losing the babies pre- or post-implantation.

Have you contacted an NFP trained physician? There is a lot they can do today with hormones to help sustain pregnancy, but many run of the mill OB/GYN don’t study it.

I’d suggest you try contacting the Paul VI Institue for a referral.

God Bless
 
Here is an intersting twist: What if the wife is already pregnant and put on pelvic rest?
Temporary abstinence. Then increase the other types of intimacy that neither spouse feels neglected.

For more understanding about church teaching and marriage see:

Good News about Sex and Marriage by Christopher West and

Holy Sex ! by Greg Popcak.

Of course you could go get some big old moral theology texts but I think the others are an easier read. 😃
 
Some People Are Getting Really Uptight About The Role Of Sexuality. You’re Getting Too Worked Up.
 
An as an aside:

What make believe world does this wife come from…😃
Many of you seem to be really mean spirited people. I just don’t see what there is to be gained with all the attitude.

I am new here but I think I have seen enough. I am out of here.
 
After reading this thread, I had to post a reply. I am not a Catholic and doubt I will ever be one. I want to, as much as possible, avoid offending anyone or using any bad language. I am going to say that I think most Catholics disobey these rules, REGULARY! The main reason that I think this is that they are too strict. Do not get me wrong; I believe that sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong. But inside marriage, especially in our society, a husband and wife should enjoy each other. Telling a man that he cannot feel lust for his wife and only do things that will lead to procreation will make hypocrites of people. Also, let me say that I agree that the pill and abortion (at any stage after conception) is wrong. However, oral sex and coitus interruptus, for example, seem fine. Tying intercourse to procreation in all instances would make for stressful, robotic, and guilt-ridden sexuality; not to mention a lack of fun. I know Catholics are going to crow about the correctness of following the church teaching, but I’m not Catholic so it is not a problem for me.
 
When I think of “love” thoughts of personal sacrifice, generosity, mutual faith prayer, child rearing, diapers, runny noses, family, duty, easily come to mind. Men understand the importance of these things in a stable and Godly marriage. But…

I would suspect that for most men like myself, these beautiful aspects of true mature married love keep us guys faithful and loving toward our wives, but have almost nothing to do with sexual arousal and are totally incompatible with with the intense physical aspect of the sexual experience. It seems that a lot of theologians have associated all physical aspects of our sexuality as “lust” and therefore sinful!

:cool:
Well Said! 👍
 
Why shut the door on the wife wanting to please and love her husband?

Were all these marital regulations made up by celibate men?

God Bless!
I tend to agree with you, but Catholics will talk about the authority of the church. I would even consider the Episcopal Church, but the ordination of practicing homosexuals and woman are hurdles that are unsurmontable to me.
 
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