Mortal sin? Knowlege of catechism versus personal moral belief?

[chain]

I missed part of a radio program on mortal sin, but they were attempting to argue most caffiteria Catholics are unaware that it is a grave matter to miss Sunday mass, so therefor they lack full knowleges and it is not a mortal sin for them. I have serious doubts the first part of that is true - I suspect almost all know that the Church teaches that it is a serious sin, but simply refuse to accept it. Same with most of the other hot grave sin topics on this board - practicing homosexuality, masturbation, sleeping with opposite sex, etc… (listed for key word searches)

If a Catholic is aware of Church teaching, but erroneously believe otherwise, is it still a mortal sin. I am uncomfortable with this idea - it empowers moral relativism.

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Mortal Sin

1. It must be of a grave matter;
2. It must be committed with full knowledge that it is a mortal sin;
3. It must be committed with full consent

 

[Bookcat]

I missed part of a radio program on mortal sin, but they were attempting to argue most caffiteria Catholics are unaware that it is a grave matter to miss Sunday mass, so therefor they lack full knowleges and it is not a mortal sin for them. I have serious doubts the first part of that is true - I suspect almost all know that the Church teaches that it is a serious sin, but simply refuse to accept it. Same with most of the other hot grave sin topics on this board - practicing homosexuality, masturbation, sleeping with opposite sex, etc… (listed for key word searches)

If a Catholic is aware of Church teaching, but erroneously believe otherwise, is it still a mortal sin. I am uncomfortable with this idea - it empowers moral relativism.

---

Mortal Sin

1. It must be of a grave matter;
2. It must be committed with full knowledge that it is a mortal sin;
3. It must be committed with full consent

It really would depend on the person…their level of understanding etc…

It is possible for their erroneous belief make it not a mortal sin…

and it is possible that they have the knowledge needed for it to be mortal sin…and just do not care or want at least to *do their own thing *saying ‘well I do not believe that’…etc…but non the less commit a mortal sin (for they really know that it is a grave thing before God…)

It is difficult …we cannot see into the heart…no windows.

God would of course be the judge…

 

[JRKH]

I would just add to what bookcat said above that some people “know” what the catachism says, or have been told such and such is a serious sin, but then have a Priest or deacon or DRE tell them it’s no big deal. (ABC is a good example)

This is going to reduce the culpability for the person as well when a person in authority for properly teaching the faith fails to do so.

That being said though I do think that there are many Catholics who “should know better” but just choose to ignore or deny the seriousness of some things.

All we can do is to try and teach and enforce the faith in our own lives and in the lives of our children as best we can. God will deal with the rest.

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

Note what the Catechism states here (which can have bearing on your question depending on the person etc) :

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1860 *Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. *But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm#IV

 

[vera_dicere]

This is actually really embarrsing for me, but I have to admit, I didn’t know it was a mortal sin to miss Sunday Mass. I did, however, know it was a mortal sin to miss holy days of obligation.

I’m a cradle Catholic, with a devoute Catholic mother, convert Father, Catholic schooled, voted most likely to be a nun by my peers. So yeah, I can understand how people can not know its a mortal sin.

Of course, in my feeble defence, I am dyslexic so I often misinterpet things, so I might have thought that it was only missing the holy days when someone was probably telling me that to miss Sundays was a sin.

I found out when I read a topic here. I’m no longer in a state of ignorance! Huzzah!

 

[andyandely1997]

I can also believe some Catholics have no idea missing Sunday Mass is a mortal sin. Since coming to the Church, I have run across many Catholics who do not know their own faith. But once we are enlightened with the truth of the Church, ignorance cannot be an excuse, and we are obliged to follow the teachings of the Church. Although, obedience seems to be a problem within the Church these days.

 

[rick43235]

But once we are enlightened with the truth of the Church, ignorance cannot be an excuse, and we are obliged to follow the teachings of the Church.

(I’m not addressing andyandely1997 here - I’m just using a quote from his/her post.)

What is meant by “enlightened with the truth of the Church?” To use an extreme example, lets say Joe is walking down the street. He is on his way home from his boyfriend’s house where they just spent the last few hours having male-to-male sex. When he gets home, Joe plans to log on to the computer and masturbate to gay porn. However, on his way home, Joe passes a Catholic church. As he passes, a priest sticks his head out the door and yells, “sex outside of marriage, masturbation, and using pornography are all mortal sins.”

Has Joe been “enlightened with the truth of the Church?”

Has Joe been “taught the truth?”

Has Joe “heard the truth?”

If Joe continues with his (according to the Church) sinful behavior, is he culpable for committing mortal sin?

 

[andyandely1997]

(I’m not addressing andyandely1997 here - I’m just using a quote from his/her post.)

What is meant by “enlightened with the truth of the Church?” To use an extreme example, lets say Joe is walking down the street. He is on his way home from his boyfriend’s house where they just spent the last few hours having male-to-male sex. When he gets home, Joe plans to log on to the computer and masturbate to gay porn. However, on his way home, Joe passes a Catholic church. As he passes, a priest sticks his head out the door and yells, “sex outside of marriage, masturbation, and using pornography are all mortal sins.”

Has Joe been “enlightened with the truth of the Church?”

Has Joe been “taught the truth?”

Has Joe “heard the truth?”

If Joe continues with his (according to the Church) sinful behavior, is he culpable for committing mortal sin?

Well, that example was extreme as you stated in your reply. But with regards to Sunday Mass, if you are a Catholic, another Catholic tells you missing Sunday Mass is a mortal sin, and you do nothing about it, you are in mortal sin. It is our responsibility as an adult Catholic to check this out, once we have some credible information. We can go to a priest or check out the Catechism. It is not that hard to find out the truth, it just takes some effort on our part. But to ignore something which is brought to our attention, can no longer be excused as ignorance on our part.

As far as sexual sin, the moral law is written in the hearts of all men. But with regards to Catholics, the same will apply as with missing Sunday Mass. If we receive credible information on any mortal sin, it is our responsibility to check it out. We cannot ignore it & still believe we are fine. We know something once we are told, so as a responsible Catholic, let’s verify the information. It is our soul, we need to take some responsibility for it.

 

[aperture]

…

As far as sexual sin, the moral law is written in the hearts of all men.

From the (probably hundreds) threads discussing masturbation on this forum, this doesn’t seem to be the case. Not saying that moral law isn’t real, but that masturbation isn’t part of it.

 

[Bookcat]

From the (probably hundreds) threads discussing masturbation on this forum, this doesn’t seem to be the case. Not saying that moral law isn’t real, but that masturbation isn’t part of it.

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

 

[Ron_Conte]

This is actually really embarrsing for me, but I have to admit, I didn’t know it was a mortal sin to miss Sunday Mass. I did, however, know it was a mortal sin to miss holy days of obligation.

The CCC is not infallible.

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

The positive precepts to worship God and to keep holy the Sabbath are grave obligations. However, a failure to fulfill a grave obligation is only a grave sin if the failure is to a grave extent. If a believing and practicing Catholic misses Mass on one particular occasion, without a just reason, then the failure is substantially limited, and so the sin is venial.

Notice that the CCC does not state the extent of the deliberate failure that would be necessary for the sin to be grave. Therefore, it is a tenable theological position to assert that only a deliberate failure to a grave extent would constitute a grave sin, and that missing Mass on one particular Sunday or holy day would be generally only a venial sin.

 

[Ron_Conte]

A mortal sin must be sufficiently grave as to deprive the soul of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity and eternal happiness. Those sins only are mortal which reach the point of turning away from the soul’s ultimate end, God, to which the soul is bound by charity.

Missing Mass on occasion, without a just reason, is not sufficiently grave to deprive the soul of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity and eternal happiness. A Catholic who deliberately fails in his obligation to attend Mass on a Sunday or a holy day of obligation, and who does not repent before death, still does not go to eternal damnation. For his unrepentant sin is not sufficiently grave to deserve eternal punishment.

 

[baltobetsy]

A mortal sin must be sufficiently grave as to deprive the soul of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity and eternal happiness. Those sins only are mortal which reach the point of turning away from the soul’s ultimate end, God, to which the soul is bound by charity.

Missing Mass on occasion, without a just reason, is not sufficiently grave to deprive the soul of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity and eternal happiness. A Catholic who deliberately fails in his obligation to attend Mass on a Sunday or a holy day of obligation, and who does not repent before death, still does not go to eternal damnation. For his unrepentant sin is not sufficiently grave to deserve eternal punishment.

Please explain how this is not simply a restatement of the discredited “fundamental option” theory. Thank you.

 

[Bookcat]

The CCC is not infallible.

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

The positive precepts to worship God and to keep holy the Sabbath are grave obligations. However, a failure to fulfill a grave obligation is only a grave sin if the failure is to a grave extent. If a believing and practicing Catholic misses Mass on one particular occasion, without a just reason, then the failure is substantially limited, and so the sin is venial.

Notice that the CCC does not state the extent of the deliberate failure that would be necessary for the sin to be grave. Therefore, it is a tenable theological position to assert that only a deliberate failure to a grave extent would constitute a grave sin, and that missing Mass on one particular Sunday or holy day would be generally only a venial sin.

This is not the case. If one deliberately …that is with full knowledge and complete consent --but without justifying reason as the CCC notes-- this is a mortal sin.
If a believing and practicing Catholic misses Mass on one particular occasion, without a just reason, then the failure is substantially limited, and so the sin is venial.*

How so??

The Church does not say that one can on occasion without a justifying reason miss Mass on a particular occasion…

Rather the Church says that it is a mortal sin (with the normal conditions).
*
Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.*

And as noted in Veritatis Spendor 70:

"For mortal sin exists also when a person knowingly and willingly, for whatever reason, chooses something gravely disordered. "

And in this case if a person chooses not to go to Mass…without that excusing reason or dispensation…that choice is a mortal sin if done deliberately…no matter that he goes all the other days of the year.

 

[chain]

I understand there can be mitigating situations. But to deliberately value your convenience over God’s will is a pretty grave sin.

This weekend we had a good mitigating situation - and the best suggestion we had was to go to confession and let Father decided…

We occasionally have Sunday Evening mass for the Teens. We had been planning mass for several weeks, and only found out after our last local mass of the weekend that our evening mass was canceled. While the people who showed up for our mass lacked coupiblity - they had no intent to miss and there were no options latter they could drive to, what the few who found out mid afternoon. Most drove an hr round trip to attend mass elsewhere, but our music ministry team attended the Teen program they were obligated to.

Our music ministry team could have drove an hour also - but were they required to? How much effort to attend mass is enough effort?