Mortal Sin: Neglect of Finacial Support of Self & Family

[Theotokos777]

If a parent is not receiving financial support or is receiving very little financial support from the abandoning party after a divorce occurs, and is able to get a job, even if they only qualify for a low paying job, yet refuses to seek employment but instead insists on the children, from the marriage, working and supporting her and themselves, is this action in itself a mortal sin? Would this constitute as a form of neglect? Is this grave matter? Does the parent have a moral obligation before God and the family to support themselves and the children(that are still under 18)?

 

[1ke]

If a parent is not receiving financial support or is receiving very little financial support from the abandoning party after a divorce occurs, and is able to get a job, even if they only qualify for a low paying job, yet refuses to seek employment but instead insists on the children, from the marriage, working and supporting her and themselves, is this action in itself a mortal sin?

I am not sure why you are trying to frame this in such a manner.

The party who abandoned the spouse has responsibilities to uphold. If they are not doing so, then they may indeed be sinning.

Once abandoned, the innocent spouse must move on and suppor themselves and their minor children. Failing to do so is certainly imprudent. We cannot say whether or not it is “sinful”.

Insisting that adult children support you because you have been abandoned by your spouse is just silly. Children are of course to lend what help they can, material or otherwise, as appropriate. But, prudential judgment reigns here as well. An able bodied person refusing to work is hardly a reason to suppor them financially.

Perhaps though, at the root of it all the abandoned spouse has emotional issues that need counseling. Perhaps even medical attention for depression.

Would this constitute as a form of neglect? Is this grave matter?

This question is unclear. To whom to you refer? The abandoning spouse, the innocent spouse, or the children?

Does the parent have a moral obligation before God and the family to support themselves and the children(that are still under 18)?

Of course.

 

[EasterJoy]

Who’s asking?

She can ask and it is no sin, per se, for her to accept the support if they offer it, but the children incur no guilt if they discern that she is quite capable of supporting herself and refuse her. If you’re one of the children, you don’t have to decide that your mother is committing a sin by asking you to support her. You can just say, “No, you can get a job. You’re very capable, Mom.”

As 1ke said, all of this has to do with prudential judgment of the situation, looking at what the mother can do for herself and what the resources and responsibilities of other members of the family are.

 

[Theotokos777]

I am not sure why you are trying to frame this in such a manner.

The party who abandoned the spouse has responsibilities to uphold. If they are not doing so, then they may indeed be sinning.

Once abandoned, the innocent spouse must move on and suppor themselves and their minor children. Failing to do so is certainly imprudent. We cannot say whether or not it is “sinful”.

Insisting that adult children support you because you have been abandoned by your spouse is just silly. Children are of course to lend what help they can, material or otherwise, as appropriate. But, prudential judgment reigns here as well. An able bodied person refusing to work is hardly a reason to suppor them financially.

Perhaps though, at the root of it all the abandoned spouse has emotional issues that need counseling. Perhaps even medical attention for depression.

This question is unclear. To whom to you refer? The abandoning spouse, the innocent spouse, or the children?

Of course.

Im Framing it in this manner because this is a real life problem, and am trying to give as many details as possible.

“The party who abandoned the spouse has responsibilities to uphold. If they are not doing so, then they may indeed be sinning.”
The abandoning spouse does indeed have duties to uphold. But if the abandoning spouse is a “deadbeat parent” so to speak, does the non abandon parent who is entrusted with custodial custody not also have a moral obligation to uphold, and if the dont, could just as easily be said to be in grave sin by neglecting care of the Gift, the children, that God has entrusted them to care for, And instead insisting she be taken care of by the children?
So im referring to the parent neglecting the duties entrusted to them by God, and that they swore to uphold by entering into the sacrament of Matrimony(Motherhood).

Quite frankly could a persons soul be at risk because of this kind of neglect of duty?
Thanks,

 

[Theotokos777]

1ke i appreciate your comments on possible counseling, very helpful, thank you

 

[Theotokos777]

Also i think we all agree that Divorce/abandonment is always grave matter to the person who initiates it(not referring to abuse and separation cases but divorce/dissolution of marriage) because it neglects the duties of the 6th commandment and neglects the Holy vows made before God. What about the abandonment of the other members produced from that bond, the children? Wouldnt it by extension be a grave matter to neglect moral obligations to support them by either spouse? Wouldnt this be an abdication of the intention of holy vows taken which represent the chief duty and goal of the marriage, child rearing?

 

[1ke]

The abandoning spouse does indeed have duties to uphold. But if the abandoning spouse is a “deadbeat parent” so to speak, does the non abandon parent who is entrusted with custodial custody not also have a moral obligation to uphold, and if the dont, could just as easily be said to be in grave sin by neglecting care of the Gift, the children, that God has entrusted them to care for, And instead insisting she be taken care of by the children?

What can be said is that the parents each have a responsibility to care for and support their minor children. If one or other is not upholding their part then yes it is still the other’s responsibility.

Can we say that is sin? No. We don’t know what is in the person’s mind. Perhaps they have depression. Perhaps they have other emotional problems they are dealing with and are not thinking clearly.

What we can say is they should get counseling from their pastor.

So im referring to the parent neglecting the duties entrusted to them by God, and that they swore to uphold by entering into the sacrament of Matrimony(Motherhood).

Yes, in a perfect world we all put duty first.

Quite frankly could a persons soul be at risk because of this kind of neglect of duty?
Thanks,

All we can say to that is “maybe”.

 

[thewanderer]

Also i think we all agree that Divorce/abandonment is always grave matter to the person who initiates it(not referring to abuse and separation cases but divorce/dissolution of marriage) because it neglects the duties of the 6th commandment and neglects the Holy vows made before God. What about the abandonment of the other members produced from that bond, the children? Wouldnt it by extension be a grave matter to neglect moral obligations to support them by either spouse? Wouldnt this be an abdication of the intention of holy vows taken which represent the chief duty and goal of the marriage, child rearing?

Yes, it does seem like it would also be grave matter. However, that is not the same as saying the person doing this is in mortal sin. Also, it is extremely important in determining whether or not such a person is capable of working to make sure one does not leave out emotional and psychological damage which can easily damage a person and make it extremely difficult if not impossible for them to take car of their duties even if physically they are fine. Some people like to pass over these aspects and assume that as long as your body is physically capable of working you as a person are. That, however, is not true. We are more than just our body.

 

[Theotokos777]

Good point. So is neglect of soul an issue here then if the person refuses to get counseling, help etc? Is that grave matter? Since in your statement that seems to be the implied real root of hindrance for a person in that state to uphold their duties to their children and just basic human living, i.e. earning enough to live rather than insisting others take care of you.

 

[1ke]

Good point. So is neglect of soul an issue here then if the person refuses to get counseling, help etc? Is that grave matter? Since in your statement that seems to be the implied real root of hindrance for a person in that state to uphold their duties to their children and just basic human living, i.e. earning enough to live rather than insisting others take care of you.

I would suggest you talk to your priest.

 

[Theotokos777]

I would suggest you talk to your priest.

The person im referring to refuses to meet with a priest about this and trusts almost no one. Still attends mass faithfully but refuses to ackowledge that there is a problem. This person is “always the victim”, and nothing is ever their fault. I think without question that there is a need for counseling, but even the mention of this to a priest would be interpreted as a betrayal to this person. This situation is exceedingly difficult. The fine line between enabling a persons dysfuntion and helping them is hard to locate. Prayers please?

 

[EasterJoy]

Good point. So is neglect of soul an issue here then if the person refuses to get counseling, help etc? Is that grave matter? Since in your statement that seems to be the implied real root of hindrance for a person in that state to uphold their duties to their children and just basic human living, i.e. earning enough to live rather than insisting others take care of you.

Remember that in order for something to be a mortal sin, it is not sufficient for the wrong action to be seriously grave. It is also necessary that the sinner appreciated that the action was seriously grave, had the capacity to do better, and deliberately chose not to.

My concern is that this question of whether a course of action is a grave sin or not could get in the way of dealing with the situation in the way most likely to lead to a good outcome. A sinner who won’t be turned from a venial sin will very often not be turned from a mortal sin, after all. Besides, the goal is to get everyone involved to both do their duty and to receive the help they need to comfort them through this abandonment, not to decide who will be the most at fault if duty is not done. I’m not saying that she cannot be admonished that she has a serious duty. I’m saying that it is enough to say she has a serious duty without getting into whether or not her sin would reach some particular level of seriousness if she fails to do what, in the end, is not only the best for her children but the best for her.

I think that 1ke is exactly right that this is a situation best faced with ongoing guidance from someone with pastoral experience and authority. Get in touch with your pastor or hers, OP, and get guidance about what to do and where to refrain from doing anything. I would not be willing to venture which will be the hardest: the work that involves doing or the work that involves refraining from doing! The support of your pastor or someone else with their feet on solid ground will be invaluable as you work your way through how to be of help through all of this. That is the main thing: be the voice of love and mercy through all of this, to help guide the person to do the right thing with patience, kindness, and perseverance.

 

[thewanderer]

Good point. So is neglect of soul an issue here then if the person refuses to get counseling, help etc? Is that grave matter? Since in your statement that seems to be the implied real root of hindrance for a person in that state to uphold their duties to their children and just basic human living, i.e. earning enough to live rather than insisting others take care of you.

Honestly I don’t know.

 

[Theotokos777]

Thank you. For the replies. I guess im concerned overall with the outcome for this person, as you mentioned above. If this continues i worry vices of sloth(physical and spiritual), laziness, resentment, biterness, victim mentality(everyone is out to get me) which is a root of not allowing yourself to love and be loved etc will ensue from this behavior over the long run as well and that this path combined with depression and other possible psychological issues may lead too. It just seems like a very spiritually dangerous place to be.

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you. For the replies. I guess im concerned overall with the outcome for this person, as you mentioned above. If this continues i worry vices of sloth(physical and spiritual), laziness, resentment, biterness, victim mentality(everyone is out to get me) which is a root of not allowing yourself to love and be loved etc will ensue from this behavior over the long run as well and that this path combined with depression and other possible psychological issues may lead too. It just seems like a very spiritually dangerous place to be.

The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing, and for you the main thing is this: How do I help myself and others be the best they can be? How do I help them through their troubles, not necessarily in the way they want, but in the way that is the best for all involved? How do I encourage others in their state of life and the trials of their circumstances? Between finding “the courage to change the things I can change” and “the serenity to accept the things I cannot”, how do I find the wisdom to know the difference and chart the path through each one? These are the questions to ask.

As for what is a mortal sin and what is not, it is best to strenuously avoid *all *sin of *all *severity, and when it seems one has committed what may be a grave sin to confess it as soon as possible and to avoid sacrilege by refraining from the other sacraments until one can confess. When in doubt, then that’s a person who could benefit from seeing their confessor as soon as possible, for they have committed a sin that is well worth fleeing! If you fear that someone you know may be in mortal sin, then that is someone who ought to be encouraged to renounce their path and turn towards something better. Even if the sin is not mortal in gravity or the person is not culpable, after all, it is still a situation well worth getting out of!

 

[St_Francis]

Theotokos,
Are you concerned about the state of this mother’s soul, or are you concerned about the situation regarding the children?

If you are concerned about the mother’s state, then since you seem to have spoken to her about her actions sufficiently to know she’s unwilling to listen or to change, then all that is left is prayer. Pray for her.

If you are concerned about the effect this situation might have one the children, and the situation is really hard on the children, then a lot of that would depend on your standing. If you are one of the children, you could go to the priest (don’t worry, he won’t tell the mother what you said) and get some help pulling all the children together to speak with their mother.

If you are not that involved in the situation, you could talk with a priest about your struggles with the situation. We do not have enough information to understand the mother’s decision–it may be that there are factors you do not know about which make this a good decision for their family.

And of course you should keep them all in your prayers!

 

[Theotokos777]

The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing, and for you the main thing is this: How do I help myself and others be the best they can be? How do I help them through their troubles, not necessarily in the way they want, but in the way that is the best for all involved? How do I encourage others in their state of life and the trials of their circumstances? Between finding “the courage to change the things I can change” and “the serenity to accept the things I cannot”, how do I find the wisdom to know the difference and chart the path through each one? These are the questions to ask.

As for what is a mortal sin and what is not, it is best to strenuously avoid *all *sin of *all *severity, and when it seems one has committed what may be a grave sin to confess it as soon as possible and to avoid sacrilege by refraining from the other sacraments until one can confess. When in doubt, then that’s a person who could benefit from seeing their confessor as soon as possible, for they have committed a sin that is well worth fleeing! If you fear that someone you know may be in mortal sin, then that is someone who ought to be encouraged to renounce their path and turn towards something better. Even if the sin is not mortal in gravity or the person is not culpable, after all, it is still a situation well worth getting out of!

“The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing, and for you the main thing is this: How do I help myself and others be the best they can be? How do I help them through their troubles, not necessarily in the way they want, but in the way that is the best for all involved?”
This is very helpful, thank you!