Mortal sin or just sin

[E.E.N.S]

Apparently, you missed the above post …
… which clearly shows that there ARE different degrees of sin.

Indeed.

If you also read some scripture it lumps all sinful behavior together. I forget where it is in the NT…

Actually, as shown above, there are explicitly differen’t degrees of sin listed in the NT.

 

[Deidre]

James teaches that if you break one part of the law (in this case sin) that you have broken the whole law. For God there are no degrees of sin. He see all sin as the same.

John 19:11 Jesus answered “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore, the one who handed me over to you is guilty of the greater sin.”

This verse is Jesus Himself speaking. If sin is sin, why would Jesus point out to Pilate that the Pharisees were guilty of a greater sin than him? What would be the point?

 

[allischalmers]

I think that is out of context. James chapter 2 is relating to treatment of rich versus poor, refusal to give charity to the poor, and honoring people for earthly riches, rather than spiritual riches. Guilty of all applies to the the rest of the chapter, where James (James 2:11) compares an adulterer to a murderer. That can hardly be considered any sin is as grave as murder or adultery. For example he goes on in verse 15 to describe the sin of not caring for a brother in need. He doesn’t compare this sin to adultery or murder to failing to give charity does he? Guilty of all refers to a violation so severe (murder, adultery etc. “mortal sin”) that observing all the rest of the teaching of God comes to no avail. It shows contempt for God and breaks the greatest teachings of Jesus of love and charity to your brother.
No, he doesn’t compare the sin of ignoring the needs of the poor to murder or adultery. Again out of context with the rest of Scripture. How can there be a sin for which for which forgivness will be given yet sin which will not be forgiven (Matthew 12:31 ) if “sin is all the same”? How can there be a “a sin which is not to death” (1 John 5) and “There is a sin unto death” ?

I tolally disegree. This is exactly what James is doing, saying that partiality and faviortism is no less of a sin than adultery or murder.
You have to look deeper into scirpture then just what is on the surface to know what God is telling us.

 

[maurin]

???
Are we looking at the same text?

**1 John 5:16-17 **
**“And if we know that he hears us in regard to whatever we ask, we know that what we have asked him for is ours. **
If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.”

What does DEADLY mean to you?
Spiritual death IS damnation. And stop it with the “true Christians would not commit such sins anyway” stuff. That is the weakest argument there is against the idea of mortal sin. The bible is littered with story after story of people who were in God’s favor and committed mortal sins – KING DAVID being one of them. That is spiritual pride and that is what the Pharissees were guilty of. We ALL have it (concupiscience) within us and ar ALL capable of sin.
As for your question of “giving you a sin that we are not in full knowledge of” - MOST Christians are not theologians and are not sure of what may constitute a mortal (deadly sin). The 3 conditions that ssejllenrad explained must be met in order for mortal sin to occur.
In short, mortal sin causes spiritual death. Spiritual death IS eternal damnation for those of us who die in a state of mortal sin.

obviously, Elvilman, the protestants on this board continue to miss, or choose to ignore, or are prevented by the maker of light (not Light Himself) from seeing this most wonderful post of yours.

thank goodness that ELVISMAN IS IN THE BUILDING!!!

 

[maurin]

Case and point for my above point, Elvisman:

James teaches that if you break one part of the law (in this case sin) that you have broken the whole law. For God there are no degrees of sin. He see all sin as the same.

they have eyes, but they don’t see…

and they believe in sola Scriptura? seems like they contradict their own contradictory dogma.

 

[allischalmers]

I think that somebody is going to pretty surprised if they get to heaven and see King David there. I do not think that I will.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I think that somebody is going to pretty surprised if they get to heaven and see King David there. I do not think that I will.

Hi,
The first bible study I ever did was on King David. Reading about him and how much faith he had in God but yet how human he was in his failings but God knew his heart regardless of what sin he committed. God chose David and held his hand through everything he did.

I am so humbled that God shows me (a sinner)the same kind of love. I know I am not worth it and I do deserve hell. My sin is no different from Davids, but God knows my heart and He knows that even though I sin I strive not to and really work hard at being more Christ-like.

I cant wait to meet David and Moses and Jesus and Mary in heaven one day.:bounce: I have so many questions.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I can’t seem to understand where Catholics got the idea that there are mortal sins and venial sin. sin is sin isn’t it. the mortal sins are Lust, murder, adultry, greed, pride, and i know there are more but i can’t think of them. however can someone name a sin that does not involve at least one “mortal” sin?

The Bible sez:
“If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.” (1 John 5:16-17)

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[Jacafamala]

I think that somebody is going to pretty surprised if they get to heaven and see King David there. I do not think that I will.

Yes, God can forgive any sin if (like David) we are truly sorry. Had David not been sorry for his sins, then he would not have been able to receive the gift of forgiveness. David’s sins were so bad that in order to commit them, he had to completely turn his back on God. Adultery and murder require you break all ties with a loving God.

On the other hand, when my child steals some candy from his Easter basket after I’ve told him to wait until he’s had his dinner, but eats the candy anyway, he’s not breaking all ties with God here. However, if he truly believed that stealing candy from the Easter basket before dinner was a mortal sin, meaning he would no longer have a relationship with God, yet he did it anyway, then for him, that would be a mortal sin. You see, mortal sin is really about where your heart is. To be able to commit a mortal sin, you need to choose not to care about having a relationship with a loving God.
Pax Christi,
Ann

 

[VociMike]

James teaches that if you break one part of the law (in this case sin) that you have broken the whole law. For God there are no degrees of sin. He see all sin as the same.

And yet many Protestants (most, I would expect) would say that a “saved” Christian who later committed mass rape, torture and murder was never saved to begin with. That many would say this is indisputable. But no Protestant would ever say that a “saved” Christian who stole a pencil was never saved to begin with.

 

[Sabda]

In 1 John 5:16,17 John does not say that the sin leads to eternal damnation. he simply says that at a point God may decide to call his child home after s/he sins. John does not mention any specific sin that leads to death. also John does not say that this sin leads to spiritual death simply death.

Kra,
I’m sorry but your definition of John makes no sense at all. I had someone try and use the same argument and it does not work from a logical stand point. Look at what the text says.

1John 5
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

Your trying to say that this is referring to a physical death. It doesn’t work because we **ALL **die a physical death! All of us! How can it be saying that SOME sin will cause a physical death and others will not when we ALL die a physical death?
This passage can only make sense from a spiritual point of view. We will ALL die a physical death. But not all of us will have committed a deadly sin. Some of us will go to heaven and have eternal LIFE some of us will NOT. Those that will not have eternal life will go to hell. Those people committed the kind of deadly sin that John is talking about. Committing a deadly sin damns you to hell. It does not mean that God called you home early.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

And yet many Protestants (most, I would expect) would say that a “saved” Christian who later committed mass rape, torture and murder was never saved to begin with. That many would say this is indisputable. But no Protestant would ever say that a “saved” Christian who stole a pencil was never saved to begin with.

That is because we put a human spin on sin to make ourselves feel better. Whether you steal a pencil or a car it is still stealing.Think about it how many people have you heard say Oh Im a good person, I dont commit murder or rape anyone–so God will take me to heaven. It just doesnt work that way.

I do believe a christian(who is saved)can commit hainus(SP?)crimes. Look at David
Christians are still sinners and still humans and we know humans are capable of anything. I would like to think that I would never commit murder but you know put me in the right circumstance at the wrong time of the month and you never know

When I became a new mom(a long time ago)I could honesty and completely get child abuse I just never stepped over the line.

The difference is if we continually, habitually sin or do we go to God and ask for help and turn away from that sin. Sin always finds us out

 

[Sabda]

ALLFORHIM,
We agree that sin is sin. However, there is a big difference in the severity of the sin. Being anger with your brother and calling him names is not the same as actually killing him even though both are sins. That’s the difference and the Bible does make the distinction. Your trying to say that being anger with your brother and calling him names is the EXACT same as actually killing him. It’s not and no court of law will agree with you. No court of law is going to give you the same punishment for those two offenses. The first instance will receive a lesser punishment than the latter. That’s EXACTLY what we’re trying to say here.

As 1John 5:17 says

17 **All** wrongdoing is sin, but there** is **sin that is **not deadly.**

YES, ALL wrongdoing IS sin, BUT not all sin is the same. Some sins are more severe than others. Also keep in mind that Scripture says we will be judged and rewarded and according to our deeds. The saved will go to heaven BUT they will not all be rewarded the same. I seriously doubt I will receive the same reward that Mother Theresa or Our late holy father have received. I do, however, have hope that I will go to heaven.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

ALLFORHIM,
We agree that sin is sin. However, there is a big difference in the severity of the sin. Being anger with your brother and calling him names is not the same as actually killing him even though both are sins. That’s the difference and the Bible does make the distinction. Your trying to say that being anger with your brother and calling him names is the EXACT same as actually killing him. It’s not and no court of law will agree with you. No court of law is going to give you the same punishment for those two offenses. The first instance will receive a lesser punishment than the latter. That’s EXACTLY what we’re trying to say here.

As 1John 5:17 says

17 **All** wrongdoing is sin, but there** is **sin that is **not deadly.**

YES, ALL wrongdoing IS sin, BUT not all sin is the same. Some sins are more severe than others. Also keep in mind that Scripture says we will be judged and rewarded and according to our deeds. The saved will go to heaven BUT they will not all be rewarded the same. I seriously doubt I will receive the same reward that Mother Theresa or Our late holy father have received. I do, however, have hope that I will go to heaven.

Hi,
Yes I agree with you as far as rewards and punishments in the afterlife. I guess what I am saying is that once you are saved there is no sin that could take that away(mortal-venial).

I agree God will judge someone more harshly like Hitler. And I agree some of us will be rewarded more in heaven then others. I am talking about here and now–belief vs. unbelief–or losing salvation or not losing salvation.
Am I clear I babble so I hope you understand the difference Im making.

 

[Tom]

So, “IF” all sin is equal in the eyes of God:
www.drbo.org:

Matthew 5: 27 You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not commit adultery. 28 But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I may as well actually commit adultery rather than just doing it in my heart, right? And since I am already saved and no one can take this from me, not even Satan, I’m home free. Great idea, no wonder it caught on. Luther actually wrote on this.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

So, “IF” all sin is equal in the eyes of God:

I may as well actually commit adultery rather than just doing it in my heart, right? And since I am already saved and no one can take this from me, not even Satan, I’m home free. Great idea, no wonder it caught on. Luther actually wrote on this.

Well if you would like that is your problem but the point here is that Jesus is telling you that the mere thought is also sinful. I believe He is pointing out that even our thoughts are sinful and just as grave as if we were to act upon them.

We have to remember that God is way above us. We may think that is a bit harsh and think it not fair but God is Sovereign and can do whatever He wants he is God we are not. Just because we dont agree or like it for that matter(which I dont BTW) doesnt mean it is not true. We can wine and complain and say that is not right because-------blah blah blah—but in the end it doesnt matter what we think. God does everything for His purpose, His will, His Glory. AMEN!!!

 

[Tom]

ALL, I quite agree with your post, however there are people who would reason they way I posted, and convince themselves they are saved. A sad truth.

 

[dcdurel]

Another example of mortal sin.
1 Cor. 5:13
In writing about a fornicator St. Paul writes
“But them that are without God judges. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.”

Now, everyone commits sin, venial sins. If all sins were the same, then everyone should be “put away” and everyone should be wicked. But, St. Paul calls the fornicator a “wicked person”, and he should be put away.

Thus, some sins are far worse than others, mortal sins, and they make a person “wicked”.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

ALL, I quite agree with your post, however there are people who would reason they way I posted, and convince themselves they are saved. A sad truth.

Well, the bible does say our hearts can deceive us. That is why I continually search myself for any wicked ways and ask God to help me fight them. I also check my motives alomost on a daily basis to make sure Im not doing nice things just to make me look better but to Glorify God. Although I guess a side effect of that is it does make me look good

 

[Pax]

Well, the bible does say our hearts can deceive us. That is why I continually search myself for any wicked ways and ask God to help me fight them. I also check my motives alomost on a daily basis to make sure Im not doing nice things just to make me look better but to Glorify God. Although I guess a side effect of that is it does make me look good

This sounds very Catholic to me…it’s nice to see how much we have in common…God bless.