Mortal sin question

[johnXXIII]

-]/-]

I think you are taking a too legalistic view. Or perhaps that there is some sort of mathematical formula for getting into Heaven or being damned to Hell. While we must not presume on God’s mercy, we must also realize that we do not fully understand it.

The life of virtue and the loss of virtue are humble experiences which can make us stronger in our Love of God and our helping of our fellow man. Hiprocerates are usualy found out very quickly, and lead a very sorry life, some of us do learn from our mistakes and grow closer to God.
The one virtue of humility hasn’t,been discussed here.
We haven’t discussed purgatory. Most of us will spend some time there. We are very foertunate that the priest gives us some easy penances, but how about the little venial sins we commit and fail to confess because we forgot them between confessions, or ignore them because we wantr to confess the big one insteead In purgatory we may be required to make up for thwe lack of a penance. Will we spend time in purgatory because of our lack of sincerity,humility and prayers and mortification,
Purgatory is God’s mercy !!

 

[johnXXIII]

Hmm. This seems to be a different answer than others I have gotten. While I still disagree with certain aspects of the Catholic mortal sin thing, at the same time your answer to my question is the one that I like the best (so far).

Examine the the purgatory element of Catholic teaching, for the Mercy of God.

 

[NotTooSmart]

So I went through this thread one more time to tabulate and classify responses.

Four of you took a literalist and narrow reading of your catechism. If you know it is a mortal sin and nobody is holding a gun to your head, yes you go directly to hell.

Three of you to some extent took an expansive reading of your catechism. You must interpret the phrases full knowledge and consent more expansively than a literalist would.

One of you gave an in depth answer but I could not determine whether you are a literalist or more expnsive. And one of you your answer was too brief for me to classify.

For you literalist out there, you have adopted a salvation which is constantly going on and off (depending of course on how often you commit mortal sin). Being good Catholics you of course know what you are doing is sinful. And nobody is holding a gun to your head. Therefore every time you commit a grave sin, you are losing your salvation to get it back again when you confess.

I have heard something similar amongst some groups of holiness Pentecostals. I have coined a term invented by me called hyperArminianism for this. While I would not consider “hyperArminianism” to be non Christian, in my mind it is problematic.

For you who took a more expanded understanding of your Catechism, you are at least approaching Wesleyan arminianism with a few tweaks and quirks thrown in. Now (with all due respect to my Calvinist friends who have a cow about Wesleyan arminianism) this is a perfectly acceptible understanding of Scripture in my humble opinion.

Under Wesleyan arminianism (at least to my understanding) you are secure in Christ but not eternally secure. As friends of mine have put it, as long as you remain in Christ and do not move away from the hope that is in you, you have nothing to worry about.

Under Wesleyan arminianism (at least what I have seen of it) a Christian does not lose his salvation every time one sins, even if it is a grave sin. Instead, for a Christian, the norm is like Peter, where we sin not from rejecting God but for scores of other reasons. And when that occurs, all it takes is one loving glance from our Lord Jesus to bring you back.

Anyway, it was interesting and informative to read the different understandings that are possible from your catechism. At least you are not all hyperArminianists, which was my previous understanding.

 

[johnXXIII]

Before you close this thread, consider these possibilities
A little Christian girl is hurt and raped and then buried alive, while she dies with the dirt over her head, she curses and hates the man who did this to her? Does she commit a sin and go to hell?

You, a very holy servant of Jesus, go to the aid of some one who is being hurt, you struggle and are killed, you are angry and want to kill him before you die. Is this a sin and will you go to hell.?

Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Jesus Christ, in antonement for our sins and for the whole world.
For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
'

 

[nkbeth]

Before you close this thread, consider these possibilities
A little Christian girl is hurt and raped and then buried alive, while she dies with the dirt over her head, she curses and hates the man who did this to her? Does she commit a sin and go to hell?

You, a very holy servant of Jesus, go to the aid of some one who is being hurt, you struggle and are killed, you are angry and want to kill him before you die. Is this a sin and will you go to hell.?

When we think of a mortal sin we sometimes think simply of an action without considering the person or the situation. Something can be “objectively a mortal sin” simply because it is by definition a grave matter. Hate and wanting to kill someone are mortal sins in this sense.

But are they in every single case mortal sins that would damn a person to hell? NO because that kind of mortal sin requires also “full knowledge and deliberate consent”.
If you are buried alive or being hurt or killed, you feel hate out of natural passion and fear, not out of deliberation ant intent. Only God can judge what is going on in someone’s heart, but even men know there is a difference between pre-meditated murder and a murder of sudden passion.

God does not play tricks or judge people arbitrarily! He has mercy, and knows our weakness. We define mortal sin objectively because we need to understand some things are IN THEMSELVES very evil. We can’t judge anyone to be in the state of mortal sin. No “hypothetical” situation gives us the intimate knowledge that God has in real life.

It is GOD who tells us what is objectively mortal sin, and He teaches us through His Church. We belittle God’s goodness and right to our obedience if we think "oh well God can’t POSSIBLY think THAT is objectively a mortal sin.

God commands us to do things out of love for US. He commands us to go to Mass because He knows we need His Son’s sacrifice, and Himself in Holy Communion. Missing Mass without a good reason is saying NO to THAT! God judges whether it is done with malice or a weak giving into strong temptation. But that He should command us so strongly to go to Mass is out of His love for us.

God doesn’t make arbitrary rules!

 

[johnXXIII]

Great answer, you win, whatever !
Jesus cautioned us about being ‘‘luke-warm’’, very important!