Mortal sin?

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Janet1983

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I just have a question:
Someone who was a practicing Catholic up until the age of 22, fully knew everything and did everything required and then turns from the Church and denies major teachings of the Church which this person acknowledged in beforehand:
Is this person living in the state of mortal sin?
This person does not consider this turning against God, but turning against a Church. Is this person committing mortal sins by now defying the teachings of the Church?

Just curious.
Janet
 
I had to add this in a new message, because I was too slow typing:

PS:
I just looked into it a bit…
saintaquinas.com/mortal_sin.html
  1. Mortal sin is a sin of grave matter
    Example given too: Neglect of Sunday obligation
    The person does not follow this obligation. From what I was told for nearly 2 years now.
    Deliberate failure to do this constitutes a grave sin (CCC 2181)
  2. Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
    This person was very active (and fulfilling the Sunday obligation very faithfully) in the local Catholic community and is aware of this being called sin.
  3. Mortal sin is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner
    This person does deliberately stay away.
The thing is - and that is why I had this question - that this person does deny the authority of the Church and denies major teachings. This persons considers these actions as a turning towards God and not away from Him. Not attending Mass, but attending Protestant services is this person’s way of celebrating Sunday.
 
Correct me if I misstate this or am incorrect, but I have heard that to reject the dogma of Mary’s Assumption is a mortal sin. I’m not sure if this applies to the OP’s person, but I wanted to throw it out there.
 
Correct me if I misstate this or am incorrect, but I have heard that to reject the dogma of Mary’s Assumption is a mortal sin. I’m not sure if this applies to the OP’s person, but I wanted to throw it out there.
to reject any dogma is a mortal sin, actually.
 
I had to add this in a new message, because I was too slow typing:

PS:
I just looked into it a bit…
saintaquinas.com/mortal_sin.html
  1. Mortal sin is a sin of grave matter
    Example given too: Neglect of Sunday obligation
    The person does not follow this obligation. From what I was told for nearly 2 years now.
    Deliberate failure to do this constitutes a grave sin (CCC 2181)
  2. Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
    This person was very active (and fulfilling the Sunday obligation very faithfully) in the local Catholic community and is aware of this being called sin.
  3. Mortal sin is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner
    This person does deliberately stay away.
The thing is - and that is why I had this question - that this person does deny the authority of the Church and denies major teachings. This persons considers these actions as a turning towards God and not away from Him. Not attending Mass, but attending Protestant services is this person’s way of celebrating Sunday.
Janet:

Are you trying to judge appearances or to judge a person?

Objectively, to reject the Catholic Church is to reject Christ.
Subjectively, one may not sufficiently understand the connection, so that the person who is rejecting the Church may not intend to reject Christ. In other words, he may be in error, and thus not in sin.

We do not know this person’s heart. We cannot then judge the person. The best we can do is judge (i.e., discern) appearances.

Thus we can acknowledge that the person you described is objectively wrong, and has endangered his soul. But we cannot condemn him (i.e., definitively and categorically avow that he is deprived of grace).

Regards,
Joe
 
I just have a question:
Someone who was a practicing Catholic up until the age of 22, fully knew everything and did everything required and then turns from the Church and denies major teachings of the Church which this person acknowledged in beforehand:
Is this person living in the state of mortal sin?
This person does not consider this turning against God, but turning against a Church. Is this person committing mortal sins by now defying the teachings of the Church?

Just curious.
Janet
The answer is; no! So please I beg you to have rest on this complicated matter, you have commited no mortal sin. :console:
Listen to the bible rather than the human tounge!😃
…you did not leave christ behind at all, so behold, you are Christ chosen child still! :bible1:
xxx jennifer xxx
 
The answer is; no! So please I beg you to have rest on this complicated matter, you have commited no mortal sin. :console:
Listen to the bible rather than the human tounge!😃
…you did not leave christ behind at all, so behold, you are Christ chosen child still! :bible1:
xxx jennifer xxx
I see in other threads that you have only attended one RCIA class so I am wondering how it is you know this is not a mortal sin?

Not fulfilling ones Sunday obligation is a mortal sin if it is done with full knowledge, deliberately and without just cause(caring for infants, illness etc.) and would need to be confessed before the person in question could receive Holy Communion.

IV. THE GRAVITY OF SIN: MORTAL AND VENIAL SIN

1854 Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture,129 became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.

1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.

Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.

1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God’s mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:

When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . . But when the sinner’s will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.130
1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

More good reading…see commandment #1:

catholicparents.org/oxcart/Examination%20of%20Conscience.pdf
 
I just have a question:
Someone who was a practicing Catholic up until the age of 22, fully knew everything and did everything required and then turns from the Church and denies major teachings of the Church which this person acknowledged in beforehand:
Please excuse me breaking up this paragraph, but I have to in order to make something clear. No one who “fully knew everything” would turn from the Church. I have to assume that this person knew as much as s/he thought necessary, which not quite the same thing as “fully knew everything”. It goes to culpability, you see.
Is this person living in the state of mortal sin?
This person does not consider this turning against God, but turning against a Church. Is this person committing mortal sins by now defying the teachings of the Church?
Just curious.
Janet
This person is confused and probably misinformed. Certainly there is mortal sin being committed here–missing one’s obligation to attend Sunday/Holy Days of Obligation Masses and denying the teachings of the Church are both mortal sins. How culpable this person might be depends on what s/he really knew and if they truly intended to reject the teachings of Christ given to his Apostles and so on to their successors.
 
Please excuse me breaking up this paragraph, but I have to in order to make something clear. No one who “fully knew everything” would turn from the Church. I have to assume that this person knew as much as s/he thought necessary, which not quite the same thing as “fully knew everything”. It goes to culpability, you see.

This person is confused and probably misinformed. Certainly there is mortal sin being committed here–missing one’s obligation to attend Sunday/Holy Days of Obligation Masses and denying the teachings of the Church are both mortal sins. How culpable this person might be depends on what s/he really knew and if they truly intended to reject the teachings of Christ given to his Apostles and so on to their successors.
Thank you for answering.
Wow! It’s nearly 2 years since I asked this question and I even forgot I did…
I got saved 2 months after I asked this and I know now that the catholic church views that as mortal sin… I still refuse to follow them.

Edit: Yes, “this person” is me… and I was just scoping out. I guess I hadn’t fully decided yet, but now I am sure…
Not fulfilling ones Sunday obligation is a mortal sin if it is done with full knowledge, deliberately and without just cause (caring for infants, illness etc.) and would need to be confessed before the person in question could receive Holy Communion.
The catholic church hasn’t excommunicated me yet…
Whether or not my denial of catholic dogma and therefore not fulfilling my Sunday obligation constitutes a mortal sin? Well I guess in your eyes it does… No communion and hell if I don’t confess these and repent of them. I will kindly decline, have my 2 Baptist services on Sundays and bi-monthly communion and serve the Lord.
 
Thank you for answering.
Wow! It’s nearly 2 years since I asked this question and I even forgot I did…
I got saved 2 months after I asked this and I know now that the catholic church views that as mortal sin… I still refuse to follow them.

Edit: Yes, “this person” is me… and I was just scoping out. I guess I hadn’t fully decided yet, but now I am sure…
I have to correct something here, if I’m not misunderstanding you… The Catholic Church doesn’t view “getting saved” as a mortal sin. What the Catholic Church calls such experiences is: “spiritual awakenings” and/or “conversions of heart”. Many of the great saints had them, such as St. Francis of Assisi. Realizing that we are totally dependent on God for our salvation is not in opposition to any teaching of the Catholic Church. 😉
The catholic church hasn’t excommunicated me yet…
Whether or not my denial of catholic dogma and therefore not fulfilling my Sunday obligation constitutes a mortal sin? Well I guess in your eyes it does… No communion and hell if I don’t confess these and repent of them. I will kindly decline, have my 2 Baptist services on Sundays and bi-monthly communion and serve the Lord.
There’s nothing wrong with going to Sunday services, receiving communion, and serving the Lord–for Protestants. Catholics above the age of reason (around 7) are expected to attend Sunday/Holy Days of Obligation Masses, communion is optional, and we too serve the Lord. So really, in that regard you have only traded one type of church going for another. You should also know that you aren’t receiving the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus in your Baptist communion. If you feel a symbol is sufficient, that’s also up to you. 🙂

As to rejecting the teachings of the Church, only you and God can know how well you really understood them before leaving the Church. I can’t speak to that, nor would I try.
 
I just have a question:
Someone who was a practicing Catholic up until the age of 22, fully knew everything and did everything required and then turns from the Church and denies major teachings of the Church which this person acknowledged in beforehand:
Is this person living in the state of mortal sin?
This person does not consider this turning against God, but turning against a Church. Is this person committing mortal sins by now defying the teachings of the Church?

Just curious.
Janet
The Lord your God is with you always, although you may walk in the depths of darkness, your Lord and God will walk with you, you do not leave him behind, he is with you always and no one can escape that. The only thing you can do to escape him is to pretend that he is not there! lol 😃

:bible1:“Don’t you know that your body is a temple and that the Lord your God lives within you?” :bible1:

To reject the church is NOT to reject Christ… as I said, he walks with you.

xxx jennifer xxx
 
The catholic church hasn’t excommunicated me yet…
Whether or not my denial of catholic dogma and therefore not fulfilling my Sunday obligation constitutes a mortal sin? Well I guess in your eyes it does… No communion and hell if I don’t confess these and repent of them. I will kindly decline, have my 2 Baptist services on Sundays and bi-monthly communion and serve the Lord.
Oh… do you still go to Catholic mass as well as your Baptist church!? 🤷

If so then… wow, that is odd… But still, the Lord is glad that you chose him. 😃
Are you a protestant now then?

xxx jennifer xxx
 
Oh… do you still go to Catholic mass as well as your Baptist church!? 🤷

If so then… wow, that is odd… But still, the Lord is glad that you chose him. 😃
Are you a protestant now then?

xxx jennifer xxx
I asked this question nearly 2 years ago and before I got saved…
No I don’t go there… I’d rather praise the LORD than adore the wafer…
 
I asked this question nearly 2 years ago and before I got saved…
No I don’t go there… I’d rather praise the LORD than adore the wafer…
Of course you know that we both praise and adore no wafer, but the LORD truly present under the appearance of bread and wine.
 
I asked this question nearly 2 years ago and before I got saved…
No I don’t go there… I’d rather praise the LORD than adore the wafer…
You know only too well that we Catholics aren’t adoring a mere wafer. If you actually “fully understood” the teachings of the Church you would know better than this. The communion you are receiving now is at best only a spiritual one not a real receiving of the living, risen Christ.

I think it a great pity you gave up the one thing that Jesus gave us that brings him to us so intimately, so intensely as to be beyond earthly description–something so ineffably holy and grace-filled we can never comprehend it. Truly sad, indeed 😦

And yes, I know Jesus spiritually. I know him better than I ever thought possible–I know him in his fullness and utter beauty. He is my all in all–my everything. All I ever want or need. My beloved, my Lord, my goal, my life.
 
You know only too well that we Catholics aren’t adoring a mere wafer. If you actually “fully understood” the teachings of the Church you would know better than this. The communion you are receiving now is at best only a spiritual one not a real receiving of the living, risen Christ.

I think it a great pity you gave up the one thing that Jesus gave us that brings him to us so intimately, so intensely as to be beyond earthly description–something so ineffably holy and grace-filled we can never comprehend it. Truly sad, indeed 😦

And yes, I know Jesus spiritually. I know him better than I ever thought possible–I know him in his fullness and utter beauty. He is my all in all–my everything. All I ever want or need. My beloved, my Lord, my goal, my life.
I did believe the teachings at one point in time, otherwise I wouldn’t have spend hours in front of that thing…
 
I did believe the teachings at one point in time, otherwise I wouldn’t have spend hours in front of that thing…
I sincerely will pray for you. To call the Blessed Sacrament “a wafer” or a “thing” when you are among a forum of Catholics can only mean one of two things. One, that you seek revenge for some wrong that someone did to you or two, you have been led astray and through your obstinance you’re looking for that ray of sunshine that might bring you back. I pray that it is the latter and then I can withstand your ignorance. May God grant you the wisdom to see beyond the veil of lies and lead you back to Holy Mother Church. God bless you …teachccd
 
Code:
The Lord your God is with you always, although you may walk in the depths of darkness, your Lord and God will walk with you, you do not leave him behind, he is with you always and no one can escape that. The only thing you can do to escape him is to pretend that he is not there! lol :D
This is not true, Zundrah. We can “escape” God. God does not tolerate sin, and sin separates us from Him. He gave us free will, so we can choose to turn our backs on Him, and live in sin. People do “leave Him behind”.
:bible1:“Don’t you know that your body is a temple and that the Lord your God lives within you?” :bible1:

To reject the church is NOT to reject Christ… as I said, he walks with you.

xxx jennifer xxx
The HS does not dwell where sin is. If a person chooses sin, the HS cannot indwell such a temple.

Jesus is not separated from His One Body, the Church. To separate oneself from the Church is to cut oneself off from His One Body.
 
I sincerely will pray for you. To call the Blessed Sacrament “a wafer” or a “thing” when you are among a forum of Catholics can only mean one of two things. One, that you seek revenge for some wrong that someone did to you or two, you have been led astray and through your obstinance you’re looking for that ray of sunshine that might bring you back. I pray that it is the latter and then I can withstand your ignorance. May God grant you the wisdom to see beyond the veil of lies and lead you back to Holy Mother Church. God bless you …teachccd
When I started this thread a while ago I was still searching… Meanwhile I have found the Lord and I don’t have any intention to get back to the church. I do however enjoy good conversations and therefore I only use the areas of the news and the non-catholic religions.
This thread here therefore is just in the wrong category for my convictions. I am sorry for that, but I could not have foreseen that I would fall in love with the Lord, be forgiven of my sins, past, present and future before I actually got there. I look forward to being in His presence one day as I do have assurance of that.
If you feel offended kindly disregard this thread.
If you do so I will not annoy you any further in your catholic walk and stay in the few areas that allow controversial and fruitful discussion. 👍

May God bless you!
Janet
 
The answer is; no! So please I beg you to have rest on this complicated matter, you have commited no mortal sin. :console:
Listen to the bible rather than the human tounge!😃
…you did not leave christ behind at all, so behold, you are Christ chosen child still! :bible1:
xxx jennifer xxx
Zundrah, I think Janet 1983 is looking for a catholic answer, and this is not it.

There is no separation between Christ and His Church. He is the Head. It is not a Headless body.
 
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