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onmyknees
Guest
If I go to an occasion of mortal sin for me, is this a mortal sin if I don’t fall into the mortal sin while I am there?
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B
Bookcat
Guest
B
Bookcat
Guest
Like for example one puts oneself in a near occasion of some mortal sin (one generally falls into moral sin in such a circumstance or from the nature of it is a near occasion for mortal sin…that would make one generally fall) …and one is morally certain that one will thus fall into that mortal sin… (even though it once in awhile happens that one does not) and does so with full knowledge and complete consent…
That would be one example I believe of a mortal sin…
There is not obligation to avoid a remote occasion…
for they can be everywhere…
catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=35228
That would be one example I believe of a mortal sin…
There is not obligation to avoid a remote occasion…
for they can be everywhere…
catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=35228
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VetA
Guest
lets say you were a crack head at one point in your life, but you have kicked the addiction. if you go to a place where you know they will be smoking crack, i am v ery certian that that situation would be a mortal sin
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
The Baltimore Catechism notes that a good Confession requires a Firm purpose of amendment, i.e a resolve to avoid that sin henceforth. That includes a resolve to avoid occasions of sin.
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onmyknees
Guest
Thank you all for your answers. I sometimes fall to where it becomes a mortal sin but sometimes I don’t so I think you are saying that it would still be mortal sin to go there.
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bilop
Guest
I would think that, generally, putting oneself in an occasion of sin would be venial, not mortal.
God Bless
God Bless
T
teachccd
Guest
I have to disagree with the previous posts. Temptation and “near occasion” of sin is NOT a sin. For example let’s say that a person has a problem with internet porn. Well then obviously going online would be a near occasion of sin. Perhaps it would be wise to either get offline for awhile or make sure that somehow your viewing is monitored. BUT merely going on the computer is NOT a sin. Even if while you are sitting there you might be tempted to go to an inappropriate website. Once you make the deliberate choice to click and go then the sin begins.
In our act of contrition we ask God to help us avoid the near occasion of sin since it will very likely lead you to sin. In fact the very phrase NEAR occasion of sin states that you are NOT in sin. So I would have to say that one should not worry if they were an alcoholc and walk in and out of a bar. Not advisable but definitely not a sin… My two cents… teachccd
In our act of contrition we ask God to help us avoid the near occasion of sin since it will very likely lead you to sin. In fact the very phrase NEAR occasion of sin states that you are NOT in sin. So I would have to say that one should not worry if they were an alcoholc and walk in and out of a bar. Not advisable but definitely not a sin… My two cents… teachccd
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Bookcat
Guest
It can be…
But that does not mean that it is…
It would be good to discuss this with your confessor…
B
Bookcat
Guest
It can be sinful to put oneself into an near occasion of sin…and can even be mortal sin. We are obliged actually to avoid “near occasions” of mortal sin in general…catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=35228
“Well then obviously going online would be a near occasion of sin.”
Maybe …maybe not…a near occasion of sin is something that generally leads one into sin… (but I do think the person should take the necessary precautions such as getting blocking software etc)…
If one knows that going to a particular place etc is likely to lead them into mortal sin…then this is a near occasion and they are to avoid it normally. And there can be sin if they intentionally put themselves into that near occasion …particularly if they are morally certain they will fall.
And in the classic act of contrition we *resolve *to avoid near occasions…
I firmly resolve with the help of Thy grace to sin no more and to avoid the near occasion of sin. Amen.
Some near occasions of sin may not be sinful at all…for example … perhaps when one has no choice and is placed in the situation and must remain…but again much could be said …and the advice of a confessor in some cases is particularly warranted.
Anyhow some near occasions are sinful to put oneself in…and some are even grave matters …again for example when one is morally certain that one will fall into the mortal sin in question.
There is much that can go into such a discussion. And one ought not to scruple about it either…
But yes …temptation and near occasions of sin can happen and there is no sin at all…but rather virtue.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Rewrite of last part of last post:
Anyhow it* can * be sinful to put oneself in a near occasion of sin…and it is possible to commit a mortal sin by being in a near occasion of sin (remember too the 3 things needful for mortal sin)…again for example when one is morally certain that one will fall into the mortal sin in question…
There is much that can go into such a discussion. And one ought not to scruple about it either…
But yes …temptation and near occasions of sin can happen and there is no sin at all…but rather virtue.
Anyhow it* can * be sinful to put oneself in a near occasion of sin…and it is possible to commit a mortal sin by being in a near occasion of sin (remember too the 3 things needful for mortal sin)…again for example when one is morally certain that one will fall into the mortal sin in question…
There is much that can go into such a discussion. And one ought not to scruple about it either…
But yes …temptation and near occasions of sin can happen and there is no sin at all…but rather virtue.
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onmyknees
Guest
Thank you teachccd, bilop, and Bookcat again. I am just going to really try to avoid this near occasion of sin unless I have to go there for a good reason. The next time I go to confession I will run this by my confessor.
May God continue to bless you all.
May God continue to bless you all.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Good idea
with particular near occasions…your confessor can help you decide what to do or not do…and help you avoid unnecessary scruples which can creep in at times when Christians really start trying to avoid sin…
V
VetA
Guest
intriguing i never thought about in the light of that internet example…
T
teachccd
Guest
We will have to agree to disagree on this one. A “near” occasion of sin is not a sin in and of itself especially a mortal sin. If you are not supposed to eat sugar but you have a sweet tooth you would be highly advised to avoid the temptation of sweets. But merely sniffing the desert tray will not affect your blood level. Yes, you could very well sneak a taste and by being there you really have to be disciplined not to but the act of eating the sweets is what will do the harm not the being there.
In our Act of Contrition we pray that by the help of God’s grace we will sin no more and avoid the near occasions of sin. So, yes, we should very much avoid the near occasions of sin but a near occasion is not a sin. It could never be unless one commits the act. So if you like to gossip you may want to avoid the water cooler at work but if you go over to wet your whistle just keep your mouth shut and no sin is committed… God bless… teachccd
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Bookcat
Guest
I would have to refer you to the Moral Theologians…for this is part of the understanding in the Church of near occasions of sin…that theythem selves can be a sin to willing enter or remain in…(again there is much one needs to distinguish here…as to when it becomes a sin…that somethings are unavoidable or necessary …or I would think when one has the good enough reason to do so and one judges one is not morally certain one will fall etc…)
And again that does not mean that each near occasion of sin is a sin…etc…but it can be…
and near occasion of sin does not mean that there is just a possibility that one would sin or be tempted…
and we are talking about near occasions of mortal sins… not simply remote occasions (one sometimes falls or could fall perhaps) for sin which one is not obliged to avoid per se…(of course we do good to avoid a number of remote occasions…too)
a near occasion of sin is an occasion (person place activity etc) where the person generally falls into mortal sin…or even always falls into mortal sin. (or the nature of the thing is that one would generally fall …)
But it remains true that one can commit a sin…a venial sin… or even a mortal sin (given all the conditions) by putting oneself into a near occasion of sin…
And the very fact that there is an obligation to avoid near occasions of sin in general…means that to go against this can be sinful ( I say in general cause …again one can make various distinctions as to when it would become sinful…)
a couple examples from the net…
Fr. Hardon well known Theologian; catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=35228 note we have a “positive obligation”…
Fr. Torraco on EWTN and Assoc Professor of Theology etc ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=544452&Forums=0&Experts=0&Days=2009&Author=&Keyword=near+occasions+of+sin&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&record_bookmark=2&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at=
again in the act of contrition we do not just pray for Gods grace we “firmly resolve” near occasions of sin. It is more than just a prayer…it is a resolution (and not the kind like new years eve…)
From the Compendium of the Catechism:
Act of Contrition
O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins because of thy just punishments, but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve with the help of Thy grace to sin no more and to avoid the near occasion of sin. Amen.
Of course it is also important to note that one is not obliged generally to avoid “remote occasions” for they can be everywhere…
and again…of course one should not scruple about things either…
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Bookcat
Guest
But I certainly understand what you are getting at…for something can very well be a near occasion of sin…but not yet any sin. This is true …I agree here.
One can speak that way…something was a temptation and even became a near occasion of sin…but one walked away when he realized it and did not sin…
or he had a very good reason to be there…it was necessary…and and not being morally certain he would fall…he tried to make it as remote as possible after talking with his confessor for example…
etc etc etc.
One can speak that way…something was a temptation and even became a near occasion of sin…but one walked away when he realized it and did not sin…
or he had a very good reason to be there…it was necessary…and and not being morally certain he would fall…he tried to make it as remote as possible after talking with his confessor for example…
etc etc etc.
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Bookcat
Guest
There can of course be near occasions to venial sin too…
but also lots of just plain ol…occasions…
but also lots of just plain ol…occasions…
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teachccd
Guest
That’s what I am getting at… Life is really a near occasion of sin when one notices the zillions of temptations surrounding us daily. But if there are particular circumstances that we should avoid then we must resolve to avoid them. But I still hold firm to my understanding that a “near occasion” is not a sin until the act that is to be avoided is committed. In the Act of Contrition we frimly resolve to avoid the near occasions of sin precisely because we are likely to fall into sin but not because the “near occasion” is, in and of itself, a sin. If heights make me dizzy then I should at all costs avoid going to high places. But the mountain top is not a problem unless I start to get dizzy. If I am on top of that mountain and for some unknown reason I do not get dizzy then the mountain top is not an issue. Am I crazy for being there given the probable results? Most likely… and that is why I should avoid the whole scenerio… I hope that this makes sense but I am not a moral theologian so
… God bless, teachccd
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Bookcat
Guest
Life may have many “occasions of sin” but many many of these are “remote occasions of sin” particularly in regards to mortal sin they do not generally or always lead us to mortal sin. The theologians etc will tell one that yes it can be sinful to willingly enter into a near occasion of sin…not always of course…but yes it can be sinful. For example if one is placing oneself into a situation one knows (morally certain) one will commit that mortal sin.That’s what I am getting at… Life is really a near occasion of sin when one notices the zillions of temptations surrounding us daily. But if there are particular circumstances that we should avoid then we must resolve to avoid them. But I still hold firm to my understanding that a “near occasion” is not a sin until the act that is to be avoided is committed. In the Act of Contrition we frimly resolve to avoid the near occasions of sin precisely because we are likely to fall into sin but not because the “near occasion” is, in and of itself, a sin. If heights make me dizzy then I should at all costs avoid going to high places. But the mountain top is not a problem unless I start to get dizzy. If I am on top of that mountain and for some unknown reason I do not get dizzy then the mountain top is not an issue. Am I crazy for being there given the probable results? Most likely… and that is why I should avoid the whole scenerio… I hope that this makes sense but I am not a moral theologian so
For example (extreme examples help make the point) if a person knows from past experience that EVERYTIME he hangs out with a particular group of people that he gets drunk (looses his reason) (they influence him that much…but he still freely chooses it)…so if knowing that he were to still decide to hang out them …that would already be a sinful decision…for he knows that he will end up getting drunk…
as for the firm resolution to avoid near occasions of sin…yes because we have to avoid mortal sins particularly…but also yes in the case of those near occasions that would be gravely sinful for us to be in anyhow …
This has been the understanding in the Church…not a new thing or just my opinion.
Again…one must distinguish as I noted in posts above…and of course not scruple either…
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