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shawnhd45
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Exactly! that is the point I was getting at
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TheRealJuliane
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shawnhd45
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When in doubt, confess it out.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
Always confess.When in doubt, confess it out.
The Just sins 7 times a day. (The Bible).
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englishredrose
Guest
I will answer from an Anglican point of view so please Roman Catholics, don’t tell me I am wrong because I am not wrong, just different from yours…Heretical???No disrespect, but did you even read the question I posed?
and…Can anyone answer this honestly, one poster just said we talk to a priest, yes I agree to this…but I’m referring to 'mortal sin and FULL consent" no one…not even a priest knows if you have sinned mortally, especially if one can not answer the premise of if there is indeed FULL consent to sin.
I know from own confessions we do not need to distinguish from Mortal or Venial Sin. Indeed I have only learned about the two from these boards. I prepare my confession my own way and read them to the priest and the priest goes through them. So being that one poster who said ‘talk to the priest’ that is what I do. Admittedly as I say, I don’t have to worry about mortal or venial as they are all (out of no disrepect) just sins to me and to the priest hearing them.
It matters to you whether one can tell if its a mortal or venial sin but I can’t tell the difference because a sin, is a sin is a sin… no puns intended etc. I’m pretty certain too that God just wants us to be sorry for our sins and aint too worried about categorising them or whether one can tell if it is. I think for him the important aspect is being sorry for it rather than its category and what happens between Joe Catholic and God is more important than some article 678 stuff in our everyday lives.
If Joe tells God he is sorry and he tells the CCC he has told God that he is sorry, then the CCC has to accept that Joe has told God he is sorry and God has forgiven him. I think most priests Roman Catholic or Anglican etc, work at that Joe has told God he is sorry. It don’t matter whether Venile or Mortal if we remember it is all sin and for our sins to be forgiven we have to be sorry to God. Whether a deliberate act or whether out of sheer innocence we have to be sorry to God. We can do things out of sheer innocence and once we have realised what we are doing is wrong/sin then we work on that to say sorry to God. So much easier in the Anglican World when we don’t have to categorise sins…
Which of the ten commandments if broken are venile sins or mortal sins?
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teachccd
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Hmmmmm… what was John thinking here? ---------
1 John 5:16-17
New International Version (NIV)
16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
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JRKH
Guest
I’m not “picking” on you when I say this, but different, even an “innocent” different can still be wrong…
That said, I see a lot of good in what you write below.
I was watching a program where the person being interviewed was a Catholic priest who had been an Anglican priest. He related that it was something of a “common” thing that an Anglican priest could always tell if a Catholic happened to “accidentally” come to confession in his church. This was because the Catholic was very rigid in how the form they used, whereas Anglicans were more “relaxed” and used confession for “council” much more than Catholics seem to.
I think that you speak to this attitude in your comments below.
The one comment I would make here is that we ALL make a mistake if we think of any sin as “just sins”. Sin goes against God, against Love and against Life. Big or small sin is something to be eradicated.
I’m afraid that you are right in saying that, for a great many Catholics, it matters whether one can tell if a sin is mortal or venial. More precisely the error in this often is that they are looking at it from an “external” or a “legal” perspective rather than from a perspective of their life and faith and how internalized that faith is etc.
As you rightly say above, “a sin, is a sin is a sin”, and ALL sin is offensive to God. And since all sin is offensive to God, we need to take all sin in our lives seriously and seek to eradicate it.
Not only does God want us to be sorry for our sins, but He wants us to stop sinning. Mt 5:48 says, “You must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect”.
In John 5:14 Jesus tells the man who was healed at the pool, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse befall you.”
In John 8:11, He says to the adulteress, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again.”
Much of this need for categorizing seems to come from a wrongheaded approach that seems to assume that we are already “good enough” for heaven, and so long as we don’t sin “too much” or “too badly” we’ll be just fine.
Such an attitude concerns me as it smacks of “presumption”.
Or - maybe I’m just projecting my own concerns over my own inadequacies…
Peace
James
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englishredrose
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Yes
Sorry about referring to Sin as ‘just Sin’. Badly phrased because I didn’t mean it to sound flippant and leniant about Sin. Yes all Sin is wrong to God Thinking of my own
But meant it to emphasize there is only one kind of Sin as opposed to Venile Sin and Mortal Sin…
And I hope not to have sounded too flippant too about writing it out on paper and reading it. I do that because like many a RC have written on these boards, I am fearful I forget something I really wanted to say about. I try to simply read it in the spirit of Loyala Ignatious teachings I guess.
We don’t need to go to Confession in the same way of RC’s so those of us who choose to go, we probably get a lot more from it than many an RC because We know we be absolved anyway because for us, God absolves/forgives sins so there has to be some reason to go and being able to grow in Christ through the advice and penance is my reason for following it through.
Sorry about referring to Sin as ‘just Sin’. Badly phrased because I didn’t mean it to sound flippant and leniant about Sin. Yes all Sin is wrong to God Thinking of my own
But meant it to emphasize there is only one kind of Sin as opposed to Venile Sin and Mortal Sin…
And I hope not to have sounded too flippant too about writing it out on paper and reading it. I do that because like many a RC have written on these boards, I am fearful I forget something I really wanted to say about. I try to simply read it in the spirit of Loyala Ignatious teachings I guess.
We don’t need to go to Confession in the same way of RC’s so those of us who choose to go, we probably get a lot more from it than many an RC because We know we be absolved anyway because for us, God absolves/forgives sins so there has to be some reason to go and being able to grow in Christ through the advice and penance is my reason for following it through.
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
One of the pitfalls of thinking “sin is sin,” is that people tend to minimize what they do and endanger their souls in the process. “Oh, I haven’t done any mortal sins, I don’t need confession,” that sort of thing, when in actuality, if they did a good examen of conscience, they would discover at least a few mortal sins in their Basket O’ Sins. So…“Sin is NOT Sin.”Yes
Sorry about referring to Sin as ‘just Sin’. Badly phrased because I didn’t mean it to sound flippant and leniant about Sin. Yes all Sin is wrong to God Thinking of my own
But meant it to emphasize there is only one kind of Sin as opposed to Venile Sin and Mortal Sin…
And I hope not to have sounded too flippant too about writing it out on paper and reading it. I do that because like many a RC have written on these boards, I am fearful I forget something I really wanted to say about. I try to simply read it in the spirit of Loyala Ignatious teachings I guess.
We don’t need to go to Confession in the same way of RC’s so those of us who choose to go, we probably get a lot more from it than many an RC because We know we be absolved anyway because for us, God absolves/forgives sins so there has to be some reason to go and being able to grow in Christ through the advice and penance is my reason for following it through.
There truly exists mortal sin and venial sin.
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englishredrose
Guest
Though I have a tricky penance this time. At first glance, well its easy enough to read the book
Then very quickly I realised that ought to be doing what the book is suggesting. Of which I can when things are fine… but the book was loaned to me to read to give me a = a tool to use when things aren’t so fine. I am trying err when I remember:blush: Though can hang onto the advice easier this time round though completely failed this morning I guess but thats how life goes and I am sure glad I don’t have to go back to confession each time I failed the advice or failing the penance as the penance is a genuine life long lesson
Then very quickly I realised that ought to be doing what the book is suggesting. Of which I can when things are fine… but the book was loaned to me to read to give me a = a tool to use when things aren’t so fine. I am trying err when I remember:blush: Though can hang onto the advice easier this time round though completely failed this morning I guess but thats how life goes and I am sure glad I don’t have to go back to confession each time I failed the advice or failing the penance as the penance is a genuine life long lesson
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JRKH
Guest
No problem. Like I said, I wasn’t trying to “Pick” on you. I think that your position is fairly sound - for an Anglican…Yes
Sorry about referring to Sin as ‘just Sin’. Badly phrased because I didn’t mean it to sound flippant and leniant about Sin. Yes all Sin is wrong to God Thinking of my own
…Well I disagree with this. There are different kinds of sins variously described in different books, by different saints and in the teaching of the Church.
For the sake of our discussion here though I’m going to say - rather than venial and mortal - I’m going to describe two forms of sin as sins of “failure” and sins of “rejection”.
Think on this difference for a minute and I bet you’ll see where I’m going with this.
Sins of “failure” occur because none of us are perfect and will tend to fall into sin if we are not careful and constantly on our guard. If we become lax in our spiritual lives, it’s easy to slip into committing sins…either because we “forget” or we slip back into a “bad habit” or whatever. Sometimes such sin occurs before we even know it. I believe it is St Teresa of Avila who describes these as “voluntary” and “involuntary” sins. They are usually small, and they stem mainly from the fact that we have not yet achieved the perfection that we are called to.
Sins of failure will be many at first, but should occur less and less frequently as we grow in holiness…of course as we grow in holiness, we also tend to uncover sins (errors) that we were unaware of before so our journey continues…
Sins of “rejection” are quite different. They stem from a clear decision to deliberately offend God. That is to reject his sovereignty over our lives and to do as WE wish instead. If one looks at the Catholic teaching on what constitutes a mortal sin, one will see that this “rejection” of God’s sovereignty is part and parcel of the “full consent” of the will, done in “full knowledge” of the sinful nature of some thought or act.
So - Sins done with knowledge and willful consent are made worse by this fact. They are more “grave” for they, by their very nature, involve a rejection of God.
Sins that are more “oops” - done out of bad habit not yet overcome or momentary lapse in judgement etc. are less “grave” - but should not be taken lightly either since many small sins “overlooked” will make us increasingly (spiritually) numb to larger sins.
No you have not sounded flippant. I do think that you are maybe unaware of the great graces available in the Sacrament of Reconciliation - though from what you write, it’s obvious that you have been the recipient of some of these graces in your life.
Though - I would say that, since many Catholics DON’T seem to go to confession, at least on a regular basis, those that do go DO receive great benefits from it.
Peace
James
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teachccd
Guest
Maybe you missed my post above but do you have any thoughts on 1 John 5:16-17?Yes
Sorry about referring to Sin as ‘just Sin’. Badly phrased because I didn’t mean it to sound flippant and leniant about Sin. Yes all Sin is wrong to God Thinking of my own
But meant it to emphasize there is only one kind of Sin as opposed to Venile Sin and Mortal Sin…
And I hope not to have sounded too flippant too about writing it out on paper and reading it. I do that because like many a RC have written on these boards, I am fearful I forget something I really wanted to say about. I try to simply read it in the spirit of Loyala Ignatious teachings I guess.
We don’t need to go to Confession in the same way of RC’s so those of us who choose to go, we probably get a lot more from it than many an RC because We know we be absolved anyway because for us, God absolves/forgives sins so there has to be some reason to go and being able to grow in Christ through the advice and penance is my reason for following it through.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
Thanks for your info. I did not know it was understood that way.
I go for the description of JPII, in the site you mentioned:
If it is easy or hard to go against God, only God knows.
From the experience of the Apostles, it seems very easy: one betrayed Him, another who would be Pope denied Him and the 9 others fled when He was crucified.
And they were face to face with God, living with Him 24/7.
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JRKH
Guest
Very good point.
The reason for this seems to be primarily one of having wrong understandings and expectations of God.
Take the Apostles for instance. Most all of the things you point out came about because they expected something very different than what God had planned.
They could only think in terms of a worldly kingdom - They argued over who would be most important in the coming kingdom.
Peter was willing to fight to prevent Jesus arrest. No lack of courage there. Peter was quite brave within the bounds of what he could understand…An earthly “Davidic” kingdom.
But when things did not go as they expected. When Jesus allowed himself to be taken, this was beyond their understanding. It just did not compute and - even though Jesus had been trying to teach them - they just could not get their heads around it.
Many disciples all through the ages have suffered in this way as well. We pray to God for what we want, what we expect, what we understand. And when God answers us with His plans for us, we get all confused. We accuse Him of not answering our prayers etc…
Then we get mad at God for not conforming to us and granting our whim.
Then it becomes easy to betray Him, to flee from Him, to Deny Him…
It happens every day.
We can only hope that, in the miserable condition that follows such denial, we recognize that it is our failure and not God’s. Then we will, like the Apostles, turn back to Him - strengthened.
Peace
James
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englishredrose
Guest
I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Using the word Just was bad english. All sin is sin and it don’t matter what category it fits into as its is still a sin. God don’t grade them so why should we.?
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Bookcat
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He does.
Mortal is mortal …venial is venial.
Murder is way different than telling a very small lie.
Just as having cancer is very different than having a cold.
(though both should be avoided of course)
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shawnhd45
Guest
I see the point plainly though, we should not be so burden to worry about every little detail in our life…Christ paid for our sins , once and fall all! When we fall, we repent and our forgiven…that simple. When we go around trying to legalized sin and decipher the “3 conditions” we turn this into un-needed stress and guilt, sure we should we repent with a ontrite heart…but to worry constantly is NOT what Christ intended.
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JRKH
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shawnhd45
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Yes James, I agree… the problem with many (myself a sinner included) is that we should not consume our lives on worrying about sin…I don’t mean to commit it freely and think its ok, by no means! I mean that when we know, and we do, sin we should pray to God right then and there to ask for forgiveness and admit our wrong doing…there is a HUGE difference in the degrees of sin, all sin does fracture us from God…but rational thought would tell us that there is a difference in sin, just like the law of the land tells us there is a difference in stealing a pack of bubble gum and armed robbery!!! BOTH break the law, but one is severely more punishable.
I view this like sin, the 3 conditions of mortal sin are there to guide us, not for any other reason, but as you stated their are some cases where culpability and imputability plays a part and the sin is not even venial!
I would argue the point that when we are truly contrite God forgives alone! The humility part is confessing up to it and rejoining our brothers and sisters in Christ Church… thank goodness for it! (confession)
Now if one is scrupulous, suffers from habits, psychological factors than I would advise a spiritual director and ultimately trust that God knows your true intentions.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
100% with you.
Many people said: “I wish I was in Jesus time!”.
But, boy, it was hard! Do you realize what is it to say the the son of the Carpenter was the Son of God?
And then hear Him say that He was going to be crucified?
And then, one day, see him multiply the bread and the fishes and feed a multitude of 5000 people and next day hear him say that they should eat His Flesh and drink His Blood which was anathema among Jews and amounted to cannibalism? And the, when everybody left for these words, hear the Lord say: “Do you want to go too?”.
Poor guys, if that was not enough, the Lord did not help them a little bit. He did not say “stay”, He invited them to leave if they wanted. The response of Peter is amazing. He does not say We want to stay, He says we do not have anywhere else to go. Poor guy, I did not want to be in his shoes. Of course, “anywhere else” for him, it was Somebody like You", which was a profession of faith.
And there it went on. After seeing them in the Tabor in Glory, He descended talking about the cross and Peter was lost again.
He denied 3 times and that was a lesson for the rest of his life.
But he gave his life for Christ, that was all he wanted to do in his weakness.
No easy task to be an apostle.
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