Mortal Sin

[FillTheVoid]

I’m still struggling with the aspect that not all of my sins have been forgiven once I trusted Jesus Christ as my personal lord and savior.

gotquestions.org/mortal-sin-venial.html

Could someone be so kind as to give a response to the objections presented there.

I didn’t want to quote right off of the website so I just posted the page.



How can I find out the truth in this matter.

I’m not biased either way, I just want to know the truth and how I can get to Heaven.

I mean, once you believe aren’t all of your sins forgiven.

Not just the ones you ask for forgiveness and repent of?

Didn’t Jesus die because he realized there was no way we could overcome sin 100% … even Mortal Sin, there are so many of them, what if I commit one and don’t know it?

There are so many differing opinions.

This is the problem.

I know what Catholics will say about it.

I know what Protestants will say about it.

:banghead:

 

[LilyM]

Remember Jesus said to the apostles not just ‘whose sins you forgive they shall be forgiven’ but also ‘whose sins you retain they shall be retained’. Meaning that if you’re unrepentant about a sin it can be retained against you.

He also states ‘whoever sins against the Holy Ghost’ (generally held to mean by being unrepentant) ‘shall NOT be forgiven’.

The first thing John the Baptist, Jesus and the Apostles say to those who want to be saved is "REPENT (usually added to ‘and be baptised’).

You know (or should know - you don’t appear to really) that according to Catholic theology you cannot commit mortal sin unknowingly - it becomes mortal when you’re aware that it’s gravely offensive to God and freely choose to do it anyway (and believe me, it happens!).

And I’m sure non-Catholics would agree - you have to be aware that God or scripture declares something to be a sin and willingly sin before you will be damned for it.

Yes Jesus died so that we would be forgiven of our sins - that is because even our minor everyday offences against God are so terrible compared to his purity that they too deserve damnation. Firsty - saving clearly doesn’t mean that we never committ sin. It’s obvious to anyone that we do. Rather he at least sometimes saves us from the CONSEQUENCES of our sins. Damnation.

But forgiveness needs to be offered by one side AND ACCEPTED or acknowledged (together with taking responsibility for the wrong done) by the other. How many times do you hear someone say ‘if only he/she would admit that xyz that they did was wrong and say sorry!’ Sometimes we don’t do this, even with our sins against God. We are proud or stubborn and try to rationalise or justify ourselves.

 

[FillTheVoid]

I suppose it doesn’t really matter, even if Mortal Sin is somehow incorrect it doesn’t hurt to take things that much more seriously.

I’ve just been taught that once you recognize you’re a sinner (repentance) and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. All of your sins are forgiven, and Christs righteousness is credited to our account. The slate is wiped clean from beginning to end once and for all.

Perhaps I’m wrong, which is why I don’t want to take any chances.

Or perhaps it’s much, much more simple than we can imagine so it’s hard to believe.

I just want to find the truth on the matter, I wish it was simple.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

I mean, once you believe aren’t all of your sins forgiven.

Not just the ones you ask for forgiveness and repent of?

All your sins are forgiven at baptism. So if you are struck by lightning a few seconds after beign baptised, you will die in a state of grace.

Unfortunately, with maybe a few rare exceptions, Catholics don’t cease to sin after being baptised. It would be good if this was not not case, but the fact is that most people sin. So the church has to have mechanisms in place to deal with that reality.

 

[twf]

We are forgiven of all our sins at baptism, as the Apostle Peter promised:
Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is for you and your children, and those who are far off. (See Acts 2)

However, we still have free will. We can still chose, by our actions, to reject grace later on as time goes on. Christ’s mercy is infinite and he will always welcome us back home, but he will not prevent us from leaving Him if that is our free choice. No power can “pull” us out of the embrace of God, but we can ourselves choose to leave it. Romans 8:34-36 assures us that nothing can separate us from the love of Christ…but other Scriptures warn us that we ourselves can choose to reject His love.

Please take a look at some of these pages:
scripturecatholic.com/salvation.html
scripturecatholic.com/justification.html
catholic.com/library/Mortal_Sin.asp
catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp
catholic.com/library/Grace_What_It_Is.asp

Just a few examples to get you started…
In John 15 our Lord tells us that a branch that does not bare fruit (that is, rejects grace…and thus good works do not naturally result) is cut down and thrown into the fire. We must abide in Christ.

Matthew 24:44-51
Therefore be ye also ready; for in an hour that ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath set over his household, to give them their food in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, that he will set him over all that he hath. But if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord tarrieth; and shall begin to beat his fellow-servants, and shall eat and drink with the drunken; the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he expecteth not, and in an hour when he knoweth not, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

In the above passage Christ is speaking of two servants. Both are in the service of the Master (Christ) and thus both are Christians. Yet one rejects Christ’s grace and by his actions freely chooses to throw away his salvation. He is thus thrown out on judgment day. We see many similar parables in Matthew 25. I would recommend that you read that entire chapter.

In Galatians 5:4 the Apostle tells us that we can “fall” from grace. In 1 Cor. 6:8-10 the Apostle warns his believing audience that those who fall into wicked lifestyles shall not inherit the Kingdom. This is one example of several such warnings in among the epistles.

Remember, we do not “save” ourselves by performing good works and avoiding mortal sin. But God respects our freewill. We must cooperate with grace. If we do so, good works and avoidance of mortal sin will be the natural result, the natural “fruit” of grace. Our works by themselves are worthless, but if they flow from grace they are pleasing to God. The analogy of the vine in John 15describes this Truth perfectly. As long as we are connected to the vine (Christ) we will grow good fruit. But if we choose to turn from Christ (through our actions) we will not grow fruit and Christ will, respecting our decision, cut us loose. The good news is that we always have another chance! Remember the tale of the Prodigal Son. Like the Father in the parable, our Father in Heaven is always waiting for us to return to him.

God bless!
In Christ,
Tyler

 

[Todd_Easton]

How can I find out the truth in this matter.
I’m not biased either way, I just want to know the truth . . . There are so many differing opinions.
This is the problem.

Jesus taught the truth to the Apostles and the Apostles in turn taught the truth to other men whom they appointed to be teachers (bishops) of the Church. These teachers (bishops) in turn taught and appointed other teachers (bishops). This appointment of teachers (bishops) by those who were teachers (bishops) before them continued in an unbroken chain from the Apostles throughout the centuries until our day in the teachers (bishops) of the Catholic Church, a process called apostolic succession.

On the other hand, Protestants have no such apostolic succession and consequently no authority to teach in the Church. They either express their own personal opinions or at most the 500-year old opinions of men like Martin Luther and John Calvin, who rejected the truth taught by their appointed teachers (bishops) in favor of their own personal opinions.

If you want to know the truth, listen to the authentic teachers of the Church, the bishops of the Catholic Church.

Suggested reading: 2 Timothy 2:1-2; Ephesians 4:11-14; 1 Timothy 3:1-2.

 

[FCEGM]

I suppose it doesn’t really matter, even if Mortal Sin is somehow incorrect it doesn’t hurt to take things that much more seriously.

I’ve just been taught that once you recognize you’re a sinner (repentance) and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. All of your sins are forgiven, and Christs righteousness is credited to our account. The slate is wiped clean from beginning to end once and for all.

Perhaps I’m wrong, which is why I don’t want to take any chances.

Or perhaps it’s much, much more simple than we can imagine so it’s hard to believe.

I just want to find the truth on the matter, I wish it was simple.

The Church offers something greater than what you have been taught; it teaches that more than Christ’s righteousness being “credited to us”, we, by His grace, particularly the graces bestowed through the Sacraments of Baptism, Holy Communion and Penance, His righteouness transforms us into true images of Himself. IOW, His righteousness doesn’t remain separate from us (that merely “covers” us), but in becoming “partakers of the divine nature”, as St. Peter writes, we are so joined to Him (in varying degrees of response to His grace) that we truly are a new creation, not just the old one that holds up a sign: “justified!”

If we accept the grace given to us from God within us, there is a development of the radical sanctification already received in Baptism (God’s indwelling) which spreads into the activity of the person and the holiness of God spreads more into all the areas of a person’s life.

These article might help:

bringyou.to/apologetics/a119.htm

bringyou.to/apologetics/a127.htm

 

[FillTheVoid]

Thank you for your responses.

If anyone is interested could someone help me understand why this preceptaustin.org/titus_34-8.htm#THREE%20TENSES is wrong?

I think you guys hit the nail on the head regarding grace and sanctification.

Should take a close look at Justification however. I think there might be more of a reason to smile for those Catholics who don’t feel loved as much as Protestants do.

 

[FCEGM]

Thank you for your responses.

If anyone is interested could someone help me understand why this preceptaustin.org/titus_34-8.htm#THREE%20TENSES is wrong?

I think you guys hit the nail on the head regarding grace and sanctification.

Should take a close look at Justification however. I think there might be more of a reason to smile for those Catholics who don’t feel loved as much as Protestants do.

Besides one of the articles that I linked which addressed Justification, that website has a few others on the topic that might help.

 

[FillTheVoid]

I can see how you can fall from grace and Sanctification through Mortal Sin.

I don’t see how that applies to losing our Justification however, we get that when we’re reborn correct?

Why is it in the past tense if Justification is an on going process?

Romans 8:38-39 “For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Notice how he doesn’t say nor things past, because that’s certainly taken care of once you’re reborn, yet he says nor things to come. Doesn’t that pretty much cover every conceivable cenario? Also, nor anything else in all creation. Aren’t we and our free will something in creation?

Combine that with past tense Justification, and the fact that Jesus took the penalty for all of our sins and you can see why so many are confused regarding the Catholic approach to this.

I’m sure if the Church could definatively clear up this matter there would be a lot more Catholics walking around.

Call me crazy but I think what Jesus did on the cross might have been a little bit more increadible than we could possibly imagine.

I’m not taking the broadest perspective available however, so I can’t say for sure.

Regardless I’m going to probably become a Catholic just to be sure.

Plus I can’t wait to speed up my Sanctification process

 

[FillTheVoid]

Those parables are increadibly horrific.

What exactly causes you to be cut off from the vine etc, what if I do something like that by accident?

Or I do and don’t even realize I need to repent?

Just thinking of something so horrifying makes me want to hide under the covers of my bed.

I believe everything the Bible says, some of it is so terrifying though.

Something about weeping and gnashing of teeth is enough to cause me to weep right now, and I’m a grown man.

 

[LilyM]

Those parables are increadibly horrific.

What exactly causes you to be cut off from the vine etc, what if I do something like that by accident?

Or I do and don’t even realize I need to repent?

Just thinking of something so horrifying makes me want to hide under the covers of my bed.

I believe everything the Bible says, some of it is so terrifying though.

Something about weeping and gnashing of teeth is enough to cause me to weep right now, and I’m a grown man.

You CANNOT accidentally do something that will damn you to hell, how many times do you need to be told that before you will believe it??? Clearly you don’t understand the basics of the concepts of sin or damnation - not from a Protestant OR Catholic perspective.

You CAN negligently (meaning through severe carelessness, not accident) commit sin, but not mortal sin, and not all sins will send you straight to hell. 1 John speaks of sin which is to death (mortal) - and sin which is NOT to death as well.