Mortal Sins

[Barry_Kearney]

Hi

I live in Melbourne Australia. About 10% of Australian Catholics attend Mass regularly, but not always. Less than 5% attend Mass on Holy Days. Less than 5% attend Confession every year.

These are broad statistics, but if not attending Mass and confession (with no good reason) is a Mortal Sin, then probably 98% of Australian Catholics are spending most of their lives in a state of Mortal Sin, according to Church Laws.

I am not judging anyone but am perplexed by this issue. Nobody talks about it. Where can we go with it? Do we ignore it? Publicize it? Change the rules? Are 98% of Catholics in danger of eternal damnation?

Do our Church Laws really mean this?

Regards

Barry Kearney

 

[SwizzleStick]

…Do our Church Laws really mean this?..

Yes, our Church laws really mean this.

Reflect on this:

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. ( Matthew 7:13-14)

And this:

Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”

"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’ "But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’ (Luke 13:23-25)

 

[tessi]

I am not judging anyone but am perplexed by this issue. Nobody talks about it.

Since I was a teenager (more than 25 years ago) I was amazed to see the indifference that nuns in my school showed to the obligation of going to Sunday Mass. I guess it’s something even for priests hard to understand. (maybe they think being “good” is all that matters, who knows…)

 

[irom]

In my opnion not going to a mass or confession once a year is NOT a mortal sin at all . But someone not going to Mass or confession (or not praying) is probably not Catholic… So it’s rather question if non-Catholics could be saved ? Yes, they could. But it’s more difficult…

 

[tessi]

We are talking about Catholics who only go to Mass once a year.

 

[SwizzleStick]

In my opnion not going to a mass or confession once a year is NOT a mortal sin at all . But someone not going to Mass or confession (or not praying) is probably not Catholic… So it’s rather question if non-Catholics could be saved ? Yes, they could. But it’s more difficult…

Interesting. So, what if one does not go to Mass 6 times a year? Or 18 times a year? What if they only go once or twice a year? As far as someone not going to Mass or confession (or not praying) is probably not Catholic, I have relatives who identify themselves as Catholic but by their own admissions, they don’t do any of those things. Are they still Catholic if they are Catholic in name only?

 

[irom]

We are talking about Catholics who only go to Mass once a year.

But what I’m saying is that such person cease to be a Catholic but not going to Mass every week .

 

[SwizzleStick]

But what I’m saying is that such person cease to be a Catholic but not going to Mass every week .

Actually, I don’t think most Catholics ever cease to be Catholic unless they go through some formal procedure to leave the Church that I’ve heard of but am not familiar with because I happily have no reason to be familiar with it. Basically, once you’re baptized a Catholic, you are always a Catholic. I think there are many Catholics who are in states of mortal sin because they’ve chosen to ignore the teachings of the Church or think they know better than the Church, but that doesn’t make them any less Catholic or make them any less sinful and accountable for said sins. They are still Catholic no matter if they continue to sin by missing Mass and Confession or not. You can take the Catholic out of Church, but you can’t really take the Church out of a Catholic.

 

[grandfather]

Hi

Are 98% of Catholics in danger of eternal damnation?

Do our Church Laws really mean this?

Regards

Barry Kearney

sounds like 98% is about right.

The alternative to meaning it is that they are just pulling your leg.

 

[thistle]

Hi

I live in Melbourne Australia. About 10% of Australian Catholics attend Mass regularly, but not always. Less than 5% attend Mass on Holy Days. Less than 5% attend Confession every year.

These are broad statistics, but if not attending Mass and confession (with no good reason) is a Mortal Sin, then probably 98% of Australian Catholics are spending most of their lives in a state of Mortal Sin, according to Church Laws.

I am not judging anyone but am perplexed by this issue. Nobody talks about it. Where can we go with it? Do we ignore it? Publicize it? Change the rules? Are 98% of Catholics in danger of eternal damnation?

Do our Church Laws really mean this?

Regards

Barry Kearney

What is the source of the statistics you quote?

 

[irom]

sounds like 98% is about right.

The alternative to meaning it is that they are just pulling your leg.

I remeber cardinal Sheen (not 100% sure it was him) saying that 98% of people (catholic and non-catholic) will be probably saved , will go to purgatory. Nobody knows.

 

[musicmantg11]

The requirement to attend Mass on Sundays and all holy days of obligation obey the Third Ten Commandment and Church Law.

It states in the Code of Canon Law 1246-1248: "Can. 1246 §1. Sunday, on which by apostolic tradition the paschal mystery is celebrated, must be observed in the universal Church as the primordial holy day of obligation. The following days must also be observed: the Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension, the Body and Blood of Christ, Holy Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, Saint Joseph, Saint Peter and Saint Paul the Apostles, and All Saints.

§2. With the prior approval of the Apostolic See, however, the conference of bishops can suppress some of the holy days of obligation or transfer them to a Sunday.

Can. 1247 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass.

Moreover, they are to abstain from those works and aVairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body.

Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.

§2. If participation in the eucharistic celebration becomes impossible because of the absence of a sacred minister or for another grave cause, it is strongly recommended that the faithful take part in a liturgy of the word if such a liturgy is celebrated in a parish church or other sacred place according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop or that they devote themselves to prayer for a suitable time alone, as a family, or, as the occasion permits, in groups of families."

 

[tessi]

But what I’m saying is that such person cease to be a Catholic but not going to Mass every week .

They remain catholics but they are in mortal sin.

 

[SwizzleStick]

They remain catholics but they are in mortal sin.

Exactly. That is the point I was trying to make. When I asked “Are they still Catholic if they are Catholic in name only?” I knew the answer. It is unfortunate that a lot of Catholics do not know the correct answer.

 

[irom]

They remain catholics but they are in mortal sin.

See ignatiusinsight.com/features2007/ctoolin_cathidentity_feb07.asp

For purposes of illustration, a classification of four categories concerning membership within a group (from lowest to highest salience) is suggested:

1. a descriptive label, a category that expresses a person’s characteristics with minimal or no effect on external behavior;
2. a social declaration, a category that expresses an external behavior that a person wants others to see;
3. a distinctive affirmation, a category that expresses self-definition and has a strong effect on external behavior; or
4. a definitive statement, a category that expresses what permeates a person’s inner life and has a significant effect on external behavior.

A man for whom the status “Catholic” is a distinctive affirmation would probably rarely miss Mass…]but on the other hand as Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger mentioned in his book Called to Communion, “There can be people who are engaged uninterruptedly in the activities of Church associations and yet are not Christians.”

 

[Barry_Kearney]

Dear Thistle

My figures are just estimates based on observations and statistics. Official Bureau of Statistics figures are that 14% of Catholics attend Mass in Australia, but that is in any one week. That is not to say they all attend every week.

But statistics show that people always over report their own Mass attendance. 11,000 people live in my own Church area, and 27% (Australian Average) would be Catholic = 2,970. 90 attend Mass weekly. For local reasons probably about 70 attend elsewhere = total 160 or 5% of Catholics in area.

We are certainly an underperforming Parish, but if we double the figure to 320, we still only have 10%. Some Parishes would have over 15%, but they would be exceptions. But even if we use the official figure of 14%, we still have very few people attending Mass on Holy Days. Most Parishes have Masses at a time when working people cannot even attend eg 9am, and they are badly attended. Much less than half the Sunday Mass attendees would attend = say 4%. With Confession almost dead in Australia, there is no doubt that many Catholics never or rarely attend, but if we just go off offical figures for Mass and throw in Holy Days, at least 95% of Catholics are not attending EVERY Sunday and Holy Day. I think 98% is more realistic, but even if we go back to the official Sunday figure of 14%, 86% of Catholics are in, according to Church Laws, a permanent state of Mortal Sin. That is a real issue for the Church. Where do we go with it?

Regards Barry

 

[grandfather]

Dear Thistle

My figures are just estimates based on observations and statistics. Official Bureau of Statistics figures are that 14% of Catholics attend Mass in Australia, but that is in any one week. That is not to say they all attend every week.Regards Barry

Believers like to know where they stand before God. It is difficult to know for ourselves. The Church does not make up arbitrary rules to set the bar, or make our lives difficult. The Church tries to tell us how we are doing spiritually. A way to look at the weekly or any obligation is this. In order to live our lives and end up well, with God and the saints in heaven we need God in our lives. We need to be saved. We need to care about our salvation. We need to turn to God for salvation. How does anyone know they have done that? The Church is saying that if you do not care enough about your soul, or God, or your salvation to at least show up once a week to worship you are lost. If you think it is more importnat to play golf than join in worship with the Christian community that shows you care more for golf than you care for God or your salvation. What could be more important than the eternal well being of your soul. If it is not importnat to you then you have chosen something other than God.

 

[thistle]

Dear Thistle

My figures are just estimates based on observations and statistics. Official Bureau of Statistics figures are that 14% of Catholics attend Mass in Australia, but that is in any one week. That is not to say they all attend every week.

But statistics show that people always over report their own Mass attendance. 11,000 people live in my own Church area, and 27% (Australian Average) would be Catholic = 2,970. 90 attend Mass weekly. For local reasons probably about 70 attend elsewhere = total 160 or 5% of Catholics in area.

We are certainly an underperforming Parish, but if we double the figure to 320, we still only have 10%. Some Parishes would have over 15%, but they would be exceptions. But even if we use the official figure of 14%, we still have very few people attending Mass on Holy Days. Most Parishes have Masses at a time when working people cannot even attend eg 9am, and they are badly attended. Much less than half the Sunday Mass attendees would attend = say 4%. With Confession almost dead in Australia, there is no doubt that many Catholics never or rarely attend, but if we just go off offical figures for Mass and throw in Holy Days, at least 95% of Catholics are not attending EVERY Sunday and Holy Day. I think 98% is more realistic, but even if we go back to the official Sunday figure of 14%, 86% of Catholics are in, according to Church Laws, a permanent state of Mortal Sin. That is a real issue for the Church. Where do we go with it?

Regards Barry

You should move to the Philippines. I am a Brit living here permanently. My local parish has about 80% Sunday Mass attendence and to cope with that we have 10 Masses every Sunday.

 

[Barry_Kearney]

Dear Thistle,

If I move to Philippines, our Mass Attendance will be even worse!

80% is amazing.

Regards Barry

 

[grandfather]

You should move to the Philippines. I am a Brit living here permanently. My local parish has about 80% Sunday Mass attendence and to cope with that we have 10 Masses every Sunday.

I’ll think about it.