Mortal vs Venial

[upbeatjonm]

I love my faith, and am learning more all the time. One thing that bothers me is the definition of mortal sin as opposed to venial. I was educated in Catholic schools, and whenever someone gave an example of a mortal sin, they would say something like “murder, adultery, robbery, etc”. In other words, something very serious. Even the Catachism says that mortal sin has to involve “grave” matter.

So far, so good. However, the more I study my faith, the more it seems that almost all sin is mortal, such as missing Mass (even once), masturbation, looking with desire at person, etc.

If true, then it would seem that most of us are committing mortal sin very regularly. Why isn’t this taught? Why do most people still think mortal sin involves only sin like murder, adultery, etc? Why aren’t confessional lines long?

It reminds me of the disciples asking Jesus “who then can be saved?”, at which Jesus responds, “For man it is impossible, but with God, all things are possible”.

Is anyone else struggling with this?

 

[mommyof4]

Yes, I struggle with this too. In order for a sin to be mortal, it must meet three conditions:

Mortal sin is a sin of grave matter
Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
Mortal sin is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner
This means that mortal sins cannot be done “accidentally.” A person who commits a mortal sin is one who knows that their sin is wrong, but still deliberately commits the sin anyway. This means that mortal sins are “premeditated” by the sinner and thus are truly a rejection of God’s law and love.

 

[upbeatjonm]

Yes, I struggle with this too. In order for a sin to be mortal, it must meet three conditions:

Mortal sin is a sin of grave matter
Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
Mortal sin is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner
This means that mortal sins cannot be done “accidentally.” A person who commits a mortal sin is one who knows that their sin is wrong, but still deliberately commits the sin anyway. This means that mortal sins are “premeditated” by the sinner and thus are truly a rejection of God’s law and love.

Thanks. That part I understand. My struggle is the idea that things that I thought were minor sins (venial) are actually “grave”. I have lost the sense of what is actually a venial sin, since everything seems grave.

 

[baltobetsy]

I have lost the sense of what is actually a venial sin, since everything seems grave.

Here’s an examination of conscience with a list of mortal and venial sins. There are plenty of venial sins, really!

Betsy

 

[upbeatjonm]

Here’s an examination of conscience with a list of mortal and venial sins. There are plenty of venial sins, really!

Betsy

Thanks, this is very helpful. Where was this when I was younger?

 

[IrishAm]

Last evening, in preparation for confession today, I spent a good deal of time considering just this topic (and found the same link, too, which was quite helpful).

I’m increasingly of the opinion (see how much more wishy-washy that is than saying “I think” or “I believe” since I’m still working on this) that venial versus mortal may be more subjective than just declaring “this” is venial or doing “that” is mortal. The closer I become to God, the more I try to live the life to which He calls me, the more graces He grants me on that journey – the more He expects of me and the harder He judges my failings. For example, there was a time in my life that God was probably happy to just see me walk in the door of the church every month or so. And I received abundant graces whenever I did so. Now, however, I think He would be very disappointed in me for missing a Sunday mass without really good cause.

Does that make sense? The “to whom much is given, much is expected” kind of thinking. Or am I making the case for situational morality and should be taken out and beaten?

The other side of the coin is finding myself making “sins” out of personal failings. I have to remind myself that God isn’t offering a secular self-improvement program, and it is not sinful to abandon a weight loss diet, to fail to exercise regularly, or decide not to clean house this week just cause I don’t feel like it.

 

[blessedtoo]

I’m increasingly of the opinion (see how much more wishy-washy that is than saying “I think” or “I believe” since I’m still working on this) that venial versus mortal may be more subjective than just declaring “this” is venial or doing “that” is mortal. The closer I become to God, the more I try to live the life to which He calls me, the more graces He grants me on that journey – the more He expects of me and the harder He judges my failings. For example, there was a time in my life that God was probably happy to just see me walk in the door of the church every month or so. And I received abundant graces whenever I did so. Now, however, I think He would be very disappointed in me for missing a Sunday mass without really good cause.

Does that make sense? The “to whom much is given, much is expected” kind of thinking. Or am I making the case for situational morality and should be taken out and beaten?

The other side of the coin is finding myself making “sins” out of personal failings. I have to remind myself that God isn’t offering a secular self-improvement program, and it is not sinful to abandon a weight loss diet, to fail to exercise regularly, or decide not to clean house this week just cause I don’t feel like it.

Wow. I could have written this post, dear friend. I just met with my priest yesterday to discuss this very topic.

I have an ongoing chronic condition which sometimes keeps me from Mass (and all other activity!). I feel that because God has been so ridiculously generous with His grace and love for me, I should strive for heroic virtue (a la the saints) and crawl to Mass, even if a limb is hanging off. I am always second guessing myself (and God!), struggling to discern if it is His voice I hear calling me to courage or my self-recrimination, which is just part of a slightly scrupulous MO.

Just like you, I feel so undeservedly blessed by God. My mantra is the one you quoted (“To whom much is given…”.) I feel that all this grace and blessing must have been bestowed for a reason and am I truly fulfilling my responsibility as a beloved of Christ’s?

The longer you walk with Him, the more introspective you become on the issue of sin. The fact is, for me, I don’t want to do anything EVER that will disappoint the one I love. While I suspect I am probably harder on myself than He ever will be, I also take seriously the Gospel from last Sunday.

“Strive to enter through the narrow gate,
for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter
but will not be strong enough.

 

[Sr_Sally]

Agreeing with IrishAm (see how not wishy-washy that was). As we progress in grace, things which were once common place, becaome more serious to our minds–for example, losing your temper and yelling. While other things, which used to loom large, now no longer do because we realize that there are more “of this world”, for example, the idea that it is somehow a moral failing to not go to the gym on schedule.

 

[Manresa]

This is right off the top, this is not going into a deep theological disertation, but, people tend to see sin where there is no sin. The quidelines for mortal sin should help us in determining if we did indeed sin. If we committed a grave sin, it may not be as serious as you think depending on your culpability.

In terms of cuplability, masturbation for a 15 year old is different from masturbation for a 30 year old, especially a 30 year old who is married. But what if the 30 year is suffering from addiction?

A drug addict injecting himself or herself with heroin would be sinning gravely. But if the person is fighting the addicition and still gives in because of the pressure from the temptation, then the culpability is reduced because they are not giving full consent.

What one must consider is, are they being scrupulous? Which is not just bringing up past sins over and over but seeing sin where there is no sin. I would highly suggest getting a spiritual advisor and that spiritual advisor needs to be a priest, deacon or other religious (sisters, brothers). They can help you with the spiritual aspects of your growth in faith.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

… However, the more **I study **my faith, the more it seems that almost all sin is mortal,… :

well you could stop studying, since it is as YOU change the standard changes. Or maybe overly zealous people are defining their personal power by pretending to set the standard?

Last evening, in preparation for confession today, I spent a good deal of time considering just this topic (and found the same link, too, which was quite helpful).

I’m increasingly of the opinion (see how much more wishy-washy that is than saying “I think” or “I believe” since I’m still working on this) that venial versus mortal may be more subjective than just declaring “this” is venial or doing “that” is mortal. The closer I become to God, the more I try to live the life to which He calls me, the more graces He grants me on that journey – the more He expects of me and the harder He judges my failings. For example, there was a time in my life that God was probably happy to just see me walk in the door of the church every month or so. And I received abundant graces whenever I did so. Now, however, I think He would be very disappointed in me for missing a Sunday mass without really good cause.

Does that make sense? The “to whom much is given, much is expected” kind of thinking. Or am I making the case for situational morality and should be taken out and beaten?

The other side of the coin is finding myself making “sins” out of personal failings. I have to remind myself that God isn’t offering a secular self-improvement program, and it is not sinful to abandon a weight loss diet, to fail to exercise regularly, or decide not to clean house this week just cause I don’t feel like it.

Are you sure about this? Maybe God did not change. Maybe worshiping in the closet still works as well as a grandiose public gesture? I thought that came from scripture. In all seriousness relax a little if you do your best, and acknowledge your failings that is what is told. Remember he did not have to make you human, he choose to.

 

[tvdxer]

I love my faith, and am learning more all the time. One thing that bothers me is the definition of mortal sin as opposed to venial. I was educated in Catholic schools, and whenever someone gave an example of a mortal sin, they would say something like “murder, adultery, robbery, etc”. In other words, something very serious. Even the Catachism says that mortal sin has to involve “grave” matter.

So far, so good. However, the more I study my faith, the more it seems that almost all sin is mortal, such as missing Mass (even once), masturbation, looking with desire at person, etc.

If true, then it would seem that most of us are committing mortal sin very regularly. Why isn’t this taught? Why do most people still think mortal sin involves only sin like murder, adultery, etc? Why aren’t confessional lines long?

It reminds me of the disciples asking Jesus “who then can be saved?”, at which Jesus responds, “For man it is impossible, but with God, all things are possible”.

Is anyone else struggling with this?

It can be tough, especially at first. I recommend looking at one of the many good examinations of conscience on the internet. My favorite is archived here.

Certainly, not all sin is mortal. As you learn more about morality, you’ll have less trouble with the distinction between mortal and venial.

Your last two examples fall under the 6th and 9th commandments, both of which do not admit what moral theologians call “parvity of matter”. This means that all violations against them are mortal, if done willfully, with knowledge and sufficient reflection, and not with what are known as “imperfections of the act.” The reason for this is the traditional Church teaching (or at least consensus of moral theologians) that all venereal pleasure (which is “felt when the sex organs are aroused and involves a stirring sensation of the organs of generation” and terminates in orgasm as Fr. John Hardon explains [here](felt when the sex organs are aroused and involves a stirring sensation of the organs of generation)) willfully indulged in outside of the marital relationship is mortally sinful. “Willfully” is the key word here.

 

[StCsDavid]

A priest I respect very much once told me that the worst thing one can do is to commit a mortal sin. The second worst thing one can do is commit venial sin. So often we get hung up on the formula of what is mortal and what is venial that we forget that every sin is turning away from God. Mortal and venial simply identify the degree of the rejection along with identifying whether one is still in communion with the mystical body of Christ, or one has rejected God so severely that one has stepped outside of communion. Our Father is so wonderfully merciful that even if we leave His communion, he has given us the means to return if we repent and come to him in the sacrament of reconciliation.