Mortall Sin

[LoyalViews]

This question has been on my mind lately, after reading something on Mortal Sin. Although I have never commited Mortal Sin (and please God I never will), here we go:

Is a mortal Sin, a mortal Sin if one commits it without thinking or knowing that it is a mortal sin?

 

[Bookcat]

This question has been on my mind lately, after reading something on Mortal Sin. Although I have never commited Mortal Sin (and please God I never will), here we go:

Is a mortal Sin, a mortal Sin if one commits it without thinking or knowing that it is a mortal sin?

From the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church

1. When does one commit a mortal sin?

1855-1861
1874

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.

1. When does one commit a venial sin?

1862-1864
1875

One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.​

so one needs not only a grave matter but full knowledge and deliberate (complete) consent.

(But this does not mean one needs to use the word “mortal sin” in ones mind…

for instance if i take a gun and go shoot someone dead cause just cause i want to… with full knowledge and deliberate consent…it is going to be mortal sin …even if at the time i did not form the words ''this is mortal sin" in my head…for i know very well that such is a grave matter …and this can be the case with someone with just a natural law understanding…)

there is more that could be said…but i will stop there.

 

[LoyalViews]

So, by “intentionally” it means with a deliberate intent to sin?

 

[fish90]

So, by “intentionally” it means with a deliberate intent to sin?

I am curious about this as well.

For instance, when do thoughts become sinful? What if you are a liar who reacts in order to protect oneself? If a gun is pointed to your head, can you commit a mortal sin?

 

[aspirant]

So, by “intentionally” it means with a deliberate intent to sin?

Deliberate intent to commit the gravely immoral act.

It is gravely wrong to desecrate the Eucharist. It is not a sin to accidentally drop the Eucharist on the floor. Why? The first is freely chosen, deliberate, and the latter is not.

It is a sin to shoot an innocent person. A person’s culpability for this act would be significantly diminished, however, if a terrorist was holding a knife to the person’s child saying “shoot that guy, or I’ll cut your kid’s throat.” In such a circumstance, the act is still gravely wrong, but shooter is not really acting freely.

 

[aspirant]

For instance, when do thoughts become sinful?

When they are wrong and you choose to think them.

If a gun is pointed to your head, can you commit a mortal sin?

If the threat is not influencing your consent, yes. If your consent is based on the threat, no.

 

[LoyalViews]

So… I have done more research and read your answers and it all started to come back to me, haha.

A Mortal Sin, is only mortal when the person freely choses to di it himself, under the circumstances that the person knew it was a sin, and sinned deliberately. Also, help from my most favourite Baltimore Catechism!

I am correct, no?

 

[Magnavox]

So… I have done more research and read your answers and it all started to come back to me, haha.

A Mortal Sin, is only mortal when the person freely choses to di it himself, under the circumstances that the person knew it was a sin, and sinned deliberately. Also, help from my most favourite Baltimore Catechism!

I am correct, no?

What if you are having an argument with your spouse … and you say something terrible and right after you say it…you think “oh man, I hope that wasn’t a mortal sin”…you tell your wife you’re sorry and she forgives you…

was that diberate consent…an improper comment made in an argument?

I will confess it the next time I go even if its venial because I know when it doubt just confess it…

 

[KathySFSD]

One cannot commit a mortal sin by accident. If it is something grave (wrong), you fully understand that it is wrong, you give it thought and therefore consent and do it anyway, it is mortal.

 

[Bookcat]

So, by “intentionally” it means with a deliberate intent to sin?

deliberate consent to do what it is that is sinful…

not that one has to ‘want to sin’ but that one wants do to do what is a sin…one choose the thing or act…

or one can say ''complete consent" to characterize the consent.

i am tempted to rob a bank…it is a grave matter…and i know it…and i go ahead and do it anyway …

one knowingly gives complete consent…

 

[aspirant]

A Mortal Sin, is only mortal when the person freely choses to di it himself, under the circumstances that the person knew it was a sin, and sinned deliberately.

The matter also has to be grave. If you tell someone you like his tie even though you really think it is hideous, you’re lying. You know lying is wrong, and you did it deliberately. But whether you like his tie is not grave matter. In that case, the sin would be venial.

 

[Bookcat]

What if you are having an argument with your spouse … and you say something terrible and right after you say it…you think “oh man, I hope that wasn’t a mortal sin”…you tell your wife you’re sorry and she forgives you…

was that diberate consent…an improper comment made in an argument?

I will confess it the next time I go even if its venial because I know when it doubt just confess it…

matter would not be grave normally …and the fact that you said afterwards…o i hope that was not mortal…seems to say that one did not have the knowledge even if…

 

[Bookcat]

The matter also has to be grave. If you tell someone you like his tie even though you really think it is hideous, you’re lying. You know lying is wrong, and you did it deliberately. But whether you like his tie is not grave matter. In that case, the sin would be venial.

good example…

 

[Bookcat]

One commits a mortal sin when there are ***simultaneously ***present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent.

 

[JRKH]

This question has been on my mind lately, after reading something on Mortal Sin. Although I have never commited Mortal Sin (and please God I never will), here we go:

Is a mortal Sin, a mortal Sin if one commits it without thinking or knowing that it is a mortal sin?

Short answer is NO one cannot commit a mortal sin without knowing it.

The underlying basis for a sin being Mortal is simple. A sin is mortal because it is a willful rejection of God, of God’s Love, of obedience to God.
If we Love God as we should then we should not wish to offend Him in even small matters, let alone large ones.
If I offend God, even in a small thing, I consider it (the sin) a grave matter, whether the object of the sin itself was grave or not. Why? Because I do not wish to offend someone I Love. I do not wish to alienate myself from them either in large matters or in small ones.

The reason I write the above is that when we start to look at the “legalistic” definition of Mortal sin we tend to start trying to differentiate between the varous “stages” of consent, the various levels of “gravity” and the various forms of “knowledge” that can go into determining if something is a mortal sin or not, “under the Law” as defined by the teaching of The Church. Such “defining”, without the underlying rock of understanding, provides the evil one an opportunity to mislead and to gradually draw us away from God’s Love, first in little ways and then in larger ones.

Looking at sin in the more unifed sense of disloyalty to the one you love instead of the “legalistic” view provides a more firm basis upon which to avoid sin and build a strong and loving relationship with God. Remember that Christ Himself says that All of the Law and All of the Prophets, (and I dare to add that all of Church Teaching), are based on the Two great commandments of Love (Mt 22:36-40). Weigh all of your thoughts words and deeds, all of your understanding of Church teaching, against this and you cannot go wrong.

Peace
James

 

[Tankjeep]

Short answer is NO one cannot commit a mortal sin without knowing it.

The underlying basis for a sin being Mortal is simple. A sin is mortal because it is a willful rejection of God, of God’s Love, of obedience to God.
If we Love God as we should then we should not wish to offend Him in even small matters, let alone large ones.
If I offend God, even in a small thing, I consider it (the sin) a grave matter, whether the object of the sin itself was grave or not. Why? Because I do not wish to offend someone I Love. I do not wish to alienate myself from them either in large matters or in small ones.

The reason I write the above is that when we start to look at the “legalistic” definition of Mortal sin we tend to start trying to differentiate between the varous “stages” of consent, the various levels of “gravity” and the various forms of “knowledge” that can go into determining if something is a mortal sin or not, “under the Law” as defined by the teaching of The Church. Such “defining”, without the underlying rock of understanding, provides the evil one an opportunity to mislead and to gradually draw us away from God’s Love, first in little ways and then in larger ones.

Looking at sin in the more unifed sense of disloyalty to the one you love instead of the “legalistic” view provides a more firm basis upon which to avoid sin and build a strong and loving relationship with God. Remember that Christ Himself says that All of the Law and All of the Prophets, (and I dare to add that all of Church Teaching), are based on the Two great commandments of Love (Mt 22:36-40). Weigh all of your thoughts words and deeds, all of your understanding of Church teaching, against this and you cannot go wrong.

Peace
James

excellent post, thank you.

 

[Bookcat]

Short answer is NO one cannot commit a mortal sin without knowing it.

The underlying basis for a sin being Mortal is simple. A sin is mortal because it is a willful rejection of God, of God’s Love, of obedience to God.
If we Love God as we should then we should not wish to offend Him in even small matters, let alone large ones.
If I offend God, even in a small thing, I consider it (the sin) a grave matter, whether the object of the sin itself was grave or not. Why? Because I do not wish to offend someone I Love. I do not wish to alienate myself from them either in large matters or in small ones.

The reason I write the above is that when we start to look at the “legalistic” definition of Mortal sin we tend to start trying to differentiate between the varous “stages” of consent, the various levels of “gravity” and the various forms of “knowledge” that can go into determining if something is a mortal sin or not, “under the Law” as defined by the teaching of The Church. Such “defining”, without the underlying rock of understanding, provides the evil one an opportunity to mislead and to gradually draw us away from God’s Love, first in little ways and then in larger ones.

Looking at sin in the more unifed sense of disloyalty to the one you love instead of the “legalistic” view provides a more firm basis upon which to avoid sin and build a strong and loving relationship with God. Remember that Christ Himself says that All of the Law and All of the Prophets, (and I dare to add that all of Church Teaching), are based on the Two great commandments of Love (Mt 22:36-40). Weigh all of your thoughts words and deeds, all of your understanding of Church teaching, against this and you cannot go wrong.

Peace
James

While I understand your desires…the distinctions are important. It is a dangerous idea to think of all sins…as ‘a grave matter’ …etc… yes one should love God and ones neighbor…yes one should strive to follow Christ and live ones life as a Christian with the superabudence of love …even as it is counseled in the Sermon on the mount…

but the distinctions are real and they are important…hence the Church has them in the section of the Life in Christ in the Catechism…etc …

it is important for one to understand what is a mortal sin and what is a venial sin…not so one can then go commit as many venial sins as one would like…but rather because we do – unless God gives a very special grace— commit venial sins…in fact we can not go too long without at least a semi-deliberate venial sin…

and a person could end up in scruples …if they started blurring the difference…

of course a delicate conscience is another thing…perhaps one that you have very much…that knows the difference very much between mortal and venial…but really strives to avoid the least venial sin…but with humility and knowledge that this is not possible entirely…and who loves God and turns quickly to him when one sins venially…

of course as i have posted in other threads…it is also very important to understand that one is “in Christ” …that a Christian is a saint as Paul puts it and Pope Benedict reminded us…and to keep the following of Christ and living joyfully this life …as the focus…

but still one does need the distinctions…and it is important and consoling to know that one may have been tempted…but did not consent…or only a little…etc…

it is not legalistic…it is realistic.

it is theological knowledge …it is not ‘under the law’ …it is the following of Christ…

having said all this…yes we must live in love…yes we must not seek to be minimalistic…which may be what you were getting at…we must live with joy…loving without counting the cost…seeking to please the Lord who loves us and whom we love…

 

[JRKH]

While I understand your desires…the distinctions are important. It is a dangerous idea to think of all sins…as ‘a grave matter’ …etc… yes one should love God and ones neighbor…yes one should strive to follow Christ and live ones life as a Christian with the superabudence of love …even as it is counseled in the Sermon on the mount…

but the distinctions are real and they are important…hence the Church has them in the section of the Life in Christ in the Catechism…etc …

it is important for one to understand what is a mortal sin and what is a venial sin…not so one can then go commit as many venial sins as one would like…but rather because we do – unless God gives a very special grace— commit venial sins…in fact we can not go too long without at least a semi-deliberate venial sin…

and a person could end up in scruples …if they started blurring the difference…

of course a delicate conscience is another thing…perhaps one that you have very much…that knows the difference very much between mortal and venial…but really strives to avoid the least venial sin…but with humility and knowledge that this is not possible entirely…and who loves God and turns quickly to him when one sins venially…

of course as i have posted in other threads…it is also very important to understand that one is “in Christ” …that a Christian is a saint as Paul puts it and Pope Benedict reminded us…and to keep the following of Christ and living joyfully this life …as the focus…

but still one does need the distinctions…and it is important and consoling to know that one may have been tempted…but did not consent…or only a little…etc…

it is not legalistic…it is realistic.

it is theological knowledge …it is not ‘under the law’ …it is the following of Christ…

having said all this…yes we must live in love…yes we must not seek to be minimalistic…which may be what you were getting at…we must live with joy…loving without counting the cost…seeking to please the Lord who loves us and whom we love…

I apologize if I seemed to be oversimplifying or downplaying the importance of the definitions given in the Catachism. It is just that I often see people here asking is this or that is a sin, or a mortal sin and answer to such questions in the end must come from an understanding of the Law of Love, which is what the Catachism is trying to help us have.

There is another active thread right now where a person believes she has committed the “unforgivable sin” and yet by her very grief she demonstrates that she has not. This is what I mean by learning and leaning on the Law of Love as our guide, not only in our relationship with God, but in our evaluation of our failures (sins) to Love God perfectly.

You are right in that we must be careful of scrupulosity. We do tend to see some of that here too. So, as with all things spiritual, it is a narrow path we must walk between being too Scrupulous and being too liberal. That is why I try to bring up the Law of Love as internal yardstick for each of us.

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

I apologize if I seemed to be oversimplifying or downplaying the importance of the definitions given in the Catachism. It is just that I often see people here asking is this or that is a sin, or a mortal sin and answer to such questions in the end must come from an understanding of the Law of Love, which is what the Catachism is trying to help us have.

There is another active thread right now where a person believes she has committed the “unforgivable sin” and yet by her very grief she demonstrates that she has not. This is what I mean by learning and leaning on the Law of Love as our guide, not only in our relationship with God, but in our evaluation of our failures (sins) to Love God perfectly.

You are right in that we must be careful of scrupulosity. We do tend to see some of that here too. So, as with all things spiritual, it is a narrow path we must walk between being too Scrupulous and being too liberal. That is why I try to bring up the Law of Love as internal yardstick for each of us.

Peace
James

Knowledge and Love

Faith Hope and Charity!

 

[Magnavox]

I read somewhere that it is impossible to committ a mortal sin while one is intoxicated, is there any truth to this?