Mortifying triggers rather than avoiding them

[AlanFromWichita]

One thing I see over and over, are posters describing uncomfortable situations; like they may have “friends” or family members who make occasional comments against Catholics. Or they have coworkers who say things that are unwholesome, and are hard to avoid. Or a liberal teacher who says things they find offensive to Catholic beliefs.

It is frequently advised that the poster seek a better environment, either by forcing others to shape up, and/or by avoiding the situation. Get a new job assignment that is not around the others, or a new job if that’s impossible. Quit hanging around your friends because they are hurting your faith, and seek new ones. Deliver an ultimatum to Uncle Charlie. Challenge the teacher and if they don’t repent then consider dropping the class if there is still time.

There are exceptions, of course, but by and large I submit these are not ways to grow in faith, but to shelter oneself from the world. We are in the world but not of the world; but when we find a challenge we try to retreat from the world? That’s letting the world push us around. It’s also exhibiting we obviously do not have the peace of Christ that is both unconditional and eternal, because we are seeking comfort by looking for better worldly conditions. The comfort the world can give by giving us good conditions, is by definition conditional, and temporary for as long as the conditions last. So when we say we are seeking peace, really we are hoping for worldly comfort. It’s easy for somebody to feel at peace when in a utopia; someone with Real Character is going to be with the peace of Christ, which as He says is “not as the world gives,” and that peace will carry that person through both good times and bad. But we precisely look for the world to give us that peace. We are looking for peace everywhere but from Jesus, and giving all the responsibility for that peace away to other people and situations. If we are waiting until the world gives us peace, we’ll be waiting a long time. This is really IMO a way of avoiding responsibility for growing as a Catholic.

I say we should face the situations, and learn how to accept them with perfect peace. One does not grow into a spiritual warrior by retreating from every attack or by whining about the attack or by wishing it would go away. Isn’t that exactly what the spiritual attacks want – cowardly Christians? How do we even know if our light shines if we don’t ever take it anywhere there may be darkness? We should encourage each other to develop virtues and let go of anger, pride, etc. in the situations where they find themselves, not in some hopeful place that’s maybe better than this one. What do we do when we escape a job with negative coworkers, only to get into another one? When do we stop running?

Let’s accept the peace of Christ, and learn to be peaceful in the “real world.” We can’t just go running from one place to the next every time we find out that there are people and places We Don’t Like to be around.

Disclaimer: Again, like I mentioned, there are totally valid exceptions. I know there are extreme cases where removal from the situation is warranted, such as when someone experiences severe mental abuse and/or is in physical danger. I’m not talking about those extreme situations, so you need not bother rebutting my proposals on those bases.

Alan

 

[Forkfoot]

This was by far the best post I’ve seen in CAF. Imagine a world where every Catholic took up this perspective rather than the overwhelmingly predominant one you see evidenced all over these forums. Would you care to share anything about your personal journey on this path?

 

[LisaA]

This was by far the best post I’ve seen in CAF. Imagine a world where every Catholic took up this perspective rather than the overwhelmingly predominant one you see evidenced all over these forums. Would you care to share anything about your personal journey on this path?

Agreed and something I need to re-read when I nearly collapse in despair over all of the evil in this world. The Gosnell trial, the promotion of hedonism and pleasure at all costs, promotion of homosexuality and demeaning of Christianity…etc. Sometimes I want to pull the covers over my head and hide from the world.

Alan’s posts are always excellent so when I saw his name under the thread I knew it would be worth reading!
Lisa

 

[DarkLight]

I think it depends on what the reasons given for avoiding the situation are. There are several factors to consider.

(1) How confident are you, personally, in your faith? Do you think you can handle being in that sort of environment, or will the negativity wear you down?

(2) Similarly, will your life or health be otherwise negatively affected? Is the stress going to cause problems in other areas?

(3) Why are you in the environment in the first place? Is the purpose of it being obstructed or removed by this matter?

(4) What would the purpose of you staying and continuing to talk be? Will your faith be strengthened? Will someone else’s? Will you have a chance to share your faith?

This all to say there’s no one right answer for every situation. In some cases it’s best to stay, in some it’s better to go.

 

[RedFox0456]

Great post! I’ve started to take on this attitude. It’s been pretty nice having the courage to be openly faithful, even if I’m the only religious person in the room! Lots of discussions have come from it, and although the other people invariably get angry when they fail to “win the discussion,” keeping myself calm and not retaliating back with anger has always calmed the room down. “The Daily Bread” podcast actually addressed the anger that tends to arise, I rather enjoyed listening to that one! Usually the conversations end with the other people telling me, “You know I’ve never talked to a Christian like you. I could subscribe to your brand of religion.” (in general, not verbatim) Of course I tell them that it’s not “my brand” but the way all Catholics should be behaving! The point is, you can really plant some good seeds if you put yourself out there and don’t retreat or get angry when the stakes go up.

 

[LaSainte]

I’ve wondered about this myself, especially regarding certain things that might lead a person into sin. I know we are to avoid near-occasions of sin, but at what point is it ok to put yourself in a situation where you allow yourself to be tempted but you make every effort to overcome said temptation, strengthening your will and resolve?

Lets say someone is obsessed with Internet pornography, or drinks too much once he gets going, or something similar? Does morality require that person to simply throw away their computer forever, or stop drinking alcohol altogether, or can that person morally keep the computer or have a few drinks with friends in order to be able to still take enjoyment from these things while trying to resist the temptation to look at porno or get schnockered? Hiding from these things doesn’t strengthen a person. Facing them head-on and attempting to overcome them does. But is one putting themselves in a near-occasion of sin by doing so?

I agree that cloistering oneself is not the answer when it comes to the evil in the world. At what point do we fall into sin by risking our own corruption?

 

[WaitingForJesus]

I like what you said Alan. I have noticed a tendency of some Catholics to turn inward and really only associate with those in the parish. There is minimal to no outreach. That isn’t what the Lord did. As he said in Matthew 9:13 and elswhere: “I did not come to call the righteous but sinners”. That is what HE expects us to do for him. Of course if one’s faith is weak or a recent convert and hanging out with old friends who have a bad lifestyle causes a person to fall into sin, then yes (s)he should avoid those situations. But, most mature Christians are called to help bring others to the Lord and the way to do that is go out in the world and talk with people who don’t know HIM. Being peaceful in spite of attacks that may come when you do this sends a powerful message.

 

[leahleah]

You make a good point. I see so many people who go to Catholic school or are homeschooled their whole lives and never encounter any kind of serious threats against their beliefs, and when they finally do, they’re totally unequipped to handle them.
Still, someone here has already made this point, but you have to make sure that staying in that situation is not going to weaken your faith. For example, Patrick Madrid on RHRN (on the radio) talked about how Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t going to keep coming back and talking to you unless they think they can convert you. Don’t get in above your head. My friend was in a university class that was extremely anti-Catholic and she considered dropping it because it was threatening her faith. After praying about it, she decided to stay in the class and stand up for the Faith. I would’ve supported her either way, because I know it could have been harmful to her faith to stay there.

 

[Forkfoot]

(4) What would the purpose of you staying and continuing to talk be? Will your faith be strengthened? Will someone else’s? Will you have a chance to share your faith?

What’s the purpose of any mortification? There’s a lot more to it than merely strengthening or sharing your faith. It’s about drawing nearer to God and removing internal obstacles between yourself and Him. The purpose of a mortification isn’t to tell people about Christ, it’s to become more Christ-like.

 

[cheezey]

One thing I see over and over…
Alan

:clapping:

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Would you care to share anything about your personal journey on this path?

Gosh, I’ve been mortified in so many ways over the last 12 years. As I’ve described various aspects of in other threads, I had a very radical and psychotic Dark Night experience from spring 2001 to fall 2012. During this time period I was very psychotic at times, and it gave me first hand experience at how subjective reality really is, and how important the way we perceive something is on how it comes across, almost more importantly than the substance of the matter at hand.

One thing I’ve done is to watch videos of people I despise and/or am “supposed” to despise. Like politicians. Watch a video of President Obama, for example, at a press conference, and learn to sit through it without getting a gag reflex. I even laughed at his jokes, trying to see the situation through eyes that are neither defensive nor judgmental, but just observing. The most radical example I have of “mortifying to videos” was the BTK Strangler, who terrorized Wichita for decades and even stalked my S-I-L, though luckily she did not become one of his “projects.” I watched several hours of court testimony by him where with zero emotions at all, he explains in great detail the horrifying things he did, totally matter-of-factly. I guarantee if you can sit through his court testimony with perhaps compassion, concern, and sorrow – but without anxiety, anger, or revenge – that is mortifying. Maybe that’s more hard core than some are willing to do, but at least it is in a controlled setting – I can click the video off at any time, unlike clicking myself out of some social situation.

Another area I’ve worked on a lot is road rage. I never considered myself an angry driver, but the more I found peace, the more I found that driving would take it away – especially when I was late for something. I invented all sorts of mind games to combat this. I planned in advance how I was going to react to various conditions – person cutting me off or not letting me in on a merge – an idiot that doesn’t know how to turn left when the light is green even though three people could have gotten through before the red – changing lanes and then the lane I’m in slows down all of a sudden. Like if a guy got ahead of me, I might think, “look at that guy go – he’s probably trying to get to work so he can open the restaurant where I’ll have lunch today,” or sometimes I’d force myself to look at it from the enemy POV. Such as, “wow that guy was trying to get around me, and now he HAS! Well played!” And to really mean it, not to be sarcastic about it. That’s the rub. It’s easy to be sarcastic about all this, and that severely cuts down on results.

The greatest mortification I ever experienced on CAF, was a couple years ago for Lent. Usually I don’t announce what my Lent plans are, but this year I felt competitive and wanted to think of the Biggest and Best Lenten observance I could think of, and then announce it for “accountability” and, of course, so people would think I was hard core. I actually fasted from my need to be right in any given discussion. I would listen and paraphrase others’ points to make sure I understood them – without necessarily agreeing or arguing against – and people started being nicer. Those who were opposing me started defending me against the other “attackers.” I even started seeing other points of view as they really were, and gave them a fair chance. Meanwhile as training wheels, at first I made use of “code phrases.” Like instead of saying, “I just explained myself three times too simple for a six-year-old to miss, and you can’t hear it,” I would substitute, “that’s an interesting way to look at it. I’ve never thought of it that way before.” Same message, but the second one sounds supportive even though it’s not. Another code phrase instead of saying, “look there is no use arguing with you about this,” just say, “you may be right,” and leave it at that. Of course you “may” be right implies you may be wrong, but it’s all in how it comes across.

On the CAF front, one thing I found and have to keep reminding myself (arguing is still a great temptation for me) is that the more I did this, it did more than let me understand other people’s viewpoints – it actually help me appreciate them and see why it’s important that there are members of the Body of Christ who consider such things. In other words, the payoff has been in opening my own mind, and not just in learning to protect it from angst.

For me, it isn’t about “building will power.” One does that during basic formation of conscience. To me it’s more like “surrender.” Opening myself wide up for God to direct me. It’s turning the other cheek. I think of cartoons back in the day where a gang would be about to break down the front door and the guy in the house opens front and back both and they run right through and off the cliff in the back yard. It’s like Bruce Lee, and “fighting without fighting.” I’d say Bruce Lee was mortified to the trigger of that guy taking a swing at him. Didn’t even notice it.

Also, as my SD and psychiatrist both suggested, get lots of laughs. Watch comedy. Here is Daffy Duck, in “Ducking the Devil.” I just kind of randomly chose it; had nothing to do with my search, so take it FWIW.

Humor bridges awkward gaps and keeps things in perspective – that it’s not so much about what happens but how we react to it. Like an emotional roller coaster, we can grip on to the safety bar in fear, or we can let go, throw our hands in the air, and yell “woo hoo!” Not saying one way is better than the other, but for me I’ll take the low anxiety road – low anxiety because I want to be an emo-ninja, not because I don’t want any challenges in life.

Alan

 

[cheezey]

Alan,
I am learning sooooo much from you. I think you just answered part of my prayer!! Gotta digest this a bit…

Thank you!

 

[DarkLight]

Great post! I’ve started to take on this attitude. It’s been pretty nice having the courage to be openly faithful, even if I’m the only religious person in the room! Lots of discussions have come from it, and although the other people invariably get angry when they fail to “win the discussion,” keeping myself calm and not retaliating back with anger has always calmed the room down. “The Daily Bread” podcast actually addressed the anger that tends to arise, I rather enjoyed listening to that one! Usually the conversations end with the other people telling me, “You know I’ve never talked to a Christian like you. I could subscribe to your brand of religion.” (in general, not verbatim) Of course I tell them that it’s not “my brand” but the way all Catholics should be behaving! The point is, you can really plant some good seeds if you put yourself out there and don’t retreat or get angry when the stakes go up.

I have to say it doesn’t always work that way. Any time I talk to my family about religion - no matter how calm I am - the end result seems to be increasing conviction on their part that I’m a sinful child who’s been led astray. What reason is there to continue to talk about the issue, other than my own desire to “win”?

What’s the purpose of any mortification? There’s a lot more to it than merely strengthening or sharing your faith. It’s about drawing nearer to God and removing internal obstacles between yourself and Him. The purpose of a mortification isn’t to tell people about Christ, it’s to become more Christ-like.

Is it going to do that, though? Willful suffering for the wrong reason serves no purpose. Even Christ left some people alone. Sometimes it may be better to give up your attachment to that place or relationship.

 

[Forkfoot]

Alan,
I am learning sooooo much from you. I think you just answered part of my prayer!! Gotta digest this a bit…

Thank you!

Same here. Thank you for sharing, Alan.

Is it going to do that, though? Willful suffering for the wrong reason serves no purpose. Even Christ left some people alone. Sometimes it may be better to give up your attachment to that place or relationship.

There are of course exceptions, as the OP went out of his way to clarify in anticipation of this exact type of comment.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Great post! I’ve started to take on this attitude. It’s been pretty nice having the courage to be openly faithful, even if I’m the only religious person in the room! Lots of discussions have come from it, and although the other people invariably get angry when they fail to “win the discussion,” keeping myself calm and not retaliating back with anger has always calmed the room down. “The Daily Bread” podcast actually addressed the anger that tends to arise, I rather enjoyed listening to that one! Usually the conversations end with the other people telling me, “You know I’ve never talked to a Christian like you. I could subscribe to your brand of religion.” (in general, not verbatim) Of course I tell them that it’s not “my brand” but the way all Catholics should be behaving! The point is, you can really plant some good seeds if you put yourself out there and don’t retreat or get angry when the stakes go up.

You’re right, you can plant seeds. Among the important ones are seeds of peace and understanding. “Winning the discussion” is highly overrated, but there is quite a tendency. Where do you get the podcast? I tried Google and got several different ones; I’m curious about the one you listen to. One that my son likes is at catholicstuffpodcast.com/audio/?C=M;O=D (Their home page is here) … I like them but they do often take too long in the first 10 minutes to get to the point IMO. I’d like to hear a short one every day.

I have to say it doesn’t always work that way. Any time I talk to my family about religion - no matter how calm I am - the end result seems to be increasing conviction on their part that I’m a sinful child who’s been led astray. What reason is there to continue to talk about the issue, other than my own desire to “win”?

I agree. If they aren’t going to hear it, no sense in telling them, just to have them think ill of you for it. I want to be mortified in that wherever the discussion goes it does not disturb my peace, but nor do I want to provoke others. It is also prudent to discuss other topics where there are more likely to be some value in the discussion. The point isn’t to be right, or even to prevail in an argument, but to be at peace. So I’m just saying, if you want to get into a debate, do it with dignity and serenity whether or not you are prevailing. Sometimes you just have to be with people and not try to talk religion; which can be hard for me since it is a favorite topic of mine.

Is it going to do that, though? Willful suffering for the wrong reason serves no purpose. Even Christ left some people alone. Sometimes it may be better to give up your attachment to that place or relationship.

I’m not sure what you mean by “willful suffering.” If you mean to expose myself to triggers, then I liken it to a gymnasium. You go there to become physically strong and fit. The gym supplies equipment that necessarily opposes you, so you can flex your muscles and strengthen and condition them. So if you approach tricky situations in the manner of a place where you can learn to be a better Christian, rather than a place where you have to undergo misery and unhappiness, that may help. Sometimes there is enough suffering already in our lives that we don’t have to seek any, so we just use the ones we have to test and purify ourselves, and mortify our emotions against it. (Note I said “emotions” not “feelings.” For example, feeling sad is natural, but anger is optional.)

By mortification I mean that things cannot set me off emotionally or spiritually, as in with anger or defensiveness or shame or what have you. You can say the most terrible things to a man in a coffin and he will not get emotional or want to strike you. That’s because he has died to his physical senses and without them they don’t affect him at all. I wish to become just that impervious to disturbances in the peace Christ gave me. Because I know it is perfect peace, and if I am anxious then I know a) there is something I’m doing to make me anxious, and b) there is a way I can learn/train not to be anxious at things like this. Also, danger is real but fear is not. We can have plenty of fear when there isn’t even any danger, or be fearless in the face of great danger. Another example: hope and planning are good, but worrying is not. So I’m targeting specific negative emotions, not to make me cease being human but to make me emotionally stable. After 12 years of severe bipolar disorder, I have not had any symptoms since October 2012. My psychiatrist says this calmness and clarity of mind is rare, even among doctors with no history of mental illness. (And I’m an engineer, not a doctor.)

Or if you take the Beatitude seriously in Matt 5:11-12:
Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you [falsely] because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven.h Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
To me, this is a great measure of our mortification to insult. How can we possibly justify getting upset over attacks against our values, when Jesus is very clear we should rejoice and be glad! People who insult us or demean our faith are blessing factories, with their outputs aimed directly at us! That is, if we learn to see the kingdom as Jesus challenges us to see the kingdom. Because the kingdom is not just a place to go after we die; it’s a place we can be in right now with the right shift in attitude. :heaven:

At some point, it is the ego, or false self, that causes our problems. There are three energy centers that feed the false self: power/control, affection/esteem, and security/comfort.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Thank you all for the support in this thread. Like is often the case, I didn’t know how I would come off to others until I saw the reflection in the posts on the thread.

Let’s open it up a bit. I know there are people here who have gotten over great difficulties, or have become serene in conditions that used to bring fear, anxiety, and anger. Maybe even shame?

Does anyone else have stories about something that used to tick you off but doesn’t anymore? Have you made up or adopted any mental tricks that have made you more stable in the face of difficulty? Is there an enemy you have learned to love? A point of view you’ve let go of for the sake of peace – and don’t feel bad about it?

Alan

 

[RedFox0456]

You’re right, you can plant seeds. Among the important ones are seeds of peace and understanding. “Winning the discussion” is highly overrated, but there is quite a tendency. Where do you get the podcast? I tried Google and got several different ones; I’m curious about the one you listen to. One that my son likes is at catholicstuffpodcast.com/audio/?C=M;O=D (Their home page is here) … I like them but they do often take too long in the first 10 minutes to get to the point IMO. I’d like to hear a short one every day.

I found The Daily Bread when I was perusing the Xbox Music Store on my phone. I dug it up on the internet here.

presentationministries.com/dbread/dbread.asp

With regards to things that used to tick me off - I am a pretty smart guy, and used to get really angry whenever I was told I was an idiot for having faith. Now I understand it’s a common misconception, and the only way to dispel that is with a loving, rational discussion. Being able to come back with examples of Catholic contributions to science, or Catholic priests, etc. with PhD’s in the sciences is one sure way to explain we don’t hate intelligence! My favorite example is Fr. Georges Lemaitre - the Catholic priest who originally proposed the Big Bang Theory. Growing a knowledge of your faith and the Church is always a good thing; it can prepare you for in-depth discussions!

 

[LisaA]

Thank you all for the support in this thread. Like is often the case, I didn’t know how I would come off to others until I saw the reflection in the posts on the thread.

Let’s open it up a bit. I know there are people here who have gotten over great difficulties, or have become serene in conditions that used to bring fear, anxiety, and anger. Maybe even shame?

Does anyone else have stories about something that used to tick you off but doesn’t anymore? Have you made up or adopted any mental tricks that have made you more stable in the face of difficulty? Is there an enemy you have learned to love? A point of view you’ve let go of for the sake of peace – and don’t feel bad about it?

Alan

Alan, anyone knows from reading my posts that my feelings about Obama range between fury and lunacy. I literally cannot stand the sound, sight, or even a reference to him. In fact typing this makes cortisol shoot through my body. I can feel it.

But I did seek spiritual direction and counseling and am far less enraged about him. My spiritual director said that the majority of unhappiness in life is caused by feelings that you cannot control something or someone. You have to recognize the source of the anger which in my case is not Obama as a person but that I can’t control that we elected this #%&y#(%y#(%y#%y#%y#%^y#*%yy%#y%#y president (three and a half more years God help us). If I think about it I almost collapse in despair because I truly think he is destroying our country…or at least what I love about America.

However with counselling and prayer and some studious avoidance (I don’t watch the news and stick to Catholic radio/TV mostly) I am able to withstand small measured doses of Obama and his supporters. I ask myself in this moment is Obama doing anything that is destroying my life, my family and friends? Most of the time the answer is no. When he is at work and at war on the Church I respond by supporting organizations that fight against him. I also keep myself focused on other things, other people, my projects and of course my faith.

Lisa

 

[Forkfoot]

LOL for me it was Fox News; I used to gauge my spiritual development on how long I could watch without wanting to decapitate Sean Hannity. I also spent a lot of time in an online no-ban, no-censorship spiritual discussion group where people were constantly ripping at each other’s belief and identity structures and unconscious sticking points. Any time I’d get triggered I’d try to take it in without resisting and let go of whatever was in resistance. My experience was that literally every time I was triggered there was something in me that was holding on and resisting, and if I could let it go fully there’d be an expanding and falling deeper into peace, and I’d never again be triggered the same way.

I’m pretty hard to bother now. If something does trigger me I give it my full attention until I’m able to let go of that point of resistance, but that doesn’t happen much anymore. My wife and I never fight anymore, and Fox News is just another thing on TV now.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

LOL for me it was Fox News; I used to gauge my spiritual development on how long I could watch without wanting to decapitate Sean Hannity. I also spent a lot of time in an online no-ban, no-censorship spiritual discussion group where people were constantly ripping at each other’s belief and identity structures and unconscious sticking points. Any time I’d get triggered I’d try to take it in without resisting and let go of whatever was in resistance. My experience was that literally every time I was triggered there was something in me that was holding on and resisting, and if I could let it go fully there’d be an expanding and falling deeper into peace, and I’d never again be triggered the same way.

I’m pretty hard to bother now. If something does trigger me I give it my full attention until I’m able to let go of that point of resistance, but that doesn’t happen much anymore. My wife and I never fight anymore, and Fox News is just another thing on TV now.

That is awesome! This is the type of thing I was talking about…

And btw, while you were at Sean Hannity, I was having my purgatory with Bill O’Reilly. :bigyikes:

Alan