Moses & Jesus

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Are you willing to believe that God is omnipotent and can be in as many persons as he likes?

 

[dolphinlove]

You have explained it again that you believe in One God who is father and son and holy ghost (holy spirit). So the father is the son and holy spirit? Is that it? See your own words below:

Christians have always believed in One God who is Father, Son/Word, and Holy Spirit.

Obviously no matter how many times we explain this too you, but…

Look at it more like this
111=1

God can do what he likes and he can be what he likes, if he chooses to send out his spirit and call it the Holy Spirit, then it is so.
He chose to send his son down to us, for reasons already explained, so the son is also a part of God.

Best way of explain this to you is, you have 1 person, this 1 person finds and falls in love with another person, they get married and their hearts become 1. Then, these 2 people that are joined into the 1 union decide to have a child, this child becomes 1 further member of the family, this union, although there are 3 seperate people, are all in the one family. Does this help you understand a bit more clearly?

 

[Lapell]

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Well your first sentence above. Why you are using son/Word and Holy Spirit. Just say so Father thats it. If you wanna prove that you believe on one God. Instead of son/Word and Holy Spirit.

Tom AKA Mohammed

This, Tomshaikh, is an ESSENTIAL tenet of our faith, whether you like it or not, it’s solid doctrine, and it won’t change: the Catholic Church and all truly Christian Churches believe this to be a truth revealed by God Himself, that He is ONE GOD, and that God is 3 distinct persons always together: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Son is the Word of God (in French we litterally say “the Verb of God”, the Logos in Greek). You can ask explanations, but even though you Muslims don’t believe it, if you want to tell us that this revealed truth is a lie, well I already told someone that this is NOT proper inter-religious dialogue, it has caused too many sour remarks already, so please get this: it’s NOT open to discussion! If you have any tenet in your faith that is considered unchangeable from your point of you I think you have the right to tell us the same thing if we were to say on that unchangeable tenet: “You’re wrong.” We should not put ourselves into a position to become sour at one another if we truly seek peace and mutual respect. Agreed?

 

[Lapell]

I know you write your name tomshaikh with a small first letter, but whenever I see you seem to want to tell us what is right to believe and what is wrong to adhere to, I won’t hesitate to capitalize that first letter. Same with planten and other Muslim participants. O.K.?

 

[inJESUS]

So the word and spirit are not gods. That is good to me too. In other words, you will say Three but you will never say Three gods. I hope there is no harm in saying Three. Just Three is alright. But do not say that they are gods. I hope I am right. If not then you may adjust or correct me in this matter please.

you are correct. The three are not gods, the Three are God. When you say Allah and His Word, you are talking about One Allah, that is , One God, not 2 gods.

In other words, the Tinity is about the One God, not about different gods. The Trinity explains the One God.

A good question would be: why don’t Jews talk about the Word of God and the Spirit of God? well they do…to Jews, the Word of God and Spirit of God are not creatures but the essence of God. Yet they do not stress the Trinity because they do not believe the Word took a human flesh (Jesus). We Christians cannot but keep talking in Trinitarian terms exactly because we believe in Jesus.

As to Muslims, you as well do not believe Jesus is the Word of God but you believe the Word of Allah is eternal yet it not Allah, and you are mistaken when you think the Spirit is Gabriel. The Quran talks about Allah’s omnipotent Spirit that creates people and strengthen them, yet some of your scholars (not all) prefer not to dwelve in the topic and keep saying Allah is One, without explaining anything that might explain the nature of this Oness in regard to the Word/Wisdom of Allah, and the Spirit of Allah.

We Christians are not afraid to explain the nature of the Trinity of the One God because we are not afraid of jeopardizing Monothesism, since scriptures clearly say God is One : Father, Word, Spirit.

 

[inJESUS]

You have explained it again that you believe in One God who is father and son and holy ghost (holy spirit). So the father is the son and holy spirit? Is that it? See your own words below:

Christians have always believed in One God who is Father, Son/Word, and Holy Spirit.

the Father is the source of His Word/Wisdom and Spirit.

I will explain to you in an Islamic site about the word of Allah:

the word ‘Kalām’ is usually applied to the **beginningless attribute **of Allah present with His being referred to as His ‘Speech.’

The Word of Allah is present with Allah . Yet we are not taliking about 2 gods but about the same Allah and His Word. The Word is not Allah yet it is not different from Allah in essence.

Clearer now?

 

[ronyodish]

You have explained it again that you believe in One God who is father and son and holy ghost (holy spirit). So the father is the son and holy spirit? Is that it? See your own words below:

Christians have always believed in One God who is Father, Son/Word, and Holy Spirit.

planten,

No, the Father is not the Son, and not the Holy Spirit. There is a distinction in the Undivided Holy Trinity. A distinction, not a division.

The One God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are One God. One God by “Jawhar” (جوهر). Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three “Aqaneem” (plural of أقنوم).

Look up and do research on these Arabic words, and maybe you will understand:
جوهر
أقنوم

God bless,

Rony

 

[LaMar]

Hi Rony,

Look up and do research on these Arabic words, and maybe you will understand:

جوهر juhr? essence? spirit? insubstantial underpinning?

I am familiar with the concept, but I don’t know how it goes into english.

أقنوم Aqnum? I don’t know what this one means. Can you translate?

I wish I could type without tapping it all out on a visual character map. I’d like to know what you (and other Arab Christians) mean by these terms.

 

[ronyodish]

جوهر juhr? essence? spirit? insubstantial underpinning?

I am familiar with the concept, but I don’t know how it goes into english.

LaMar,

This is the general “Essence”.

أقنوم Aqnum? I don’t know what this one means. Can you translate?

In the Trinitarian formula, this is usually translated in English as “Person”.

I wish I could type without tapping it all out on a visual character map. I’d like to know what you (and other Arab Christians) mean by these terms.

So, for the Trinitarian formula in English, it is usually rendered like this: One God by general “Essense”. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three “Persons”.

God bless,

Rony