Most are damned?

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I agree that the grace is undeserved, and that the act of praying is pushed onto us by God, but the Catholic teaching is that we have to take up of it.
I can still reject the push to pray by grace. Likewise, I still can sin even though I was given more than enough graces to avoid it. This is the small, tiny part of free will and choice. I suppose my view may be closer to Molinism in this case, but do not think I completely conform to it.
God knows everything, and it would seem Jesus died for all people. It would also seem we have to still “take up” of these merits. Always and everywhere, God’s Grace is so constantly at work. Yet, we all are offered the chance to be saved. God knows who will or who will not be saved. However, He always gives enough grace for the salvation of any particular soul. Such I believe.
 
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quote=What should I say to a Catholic who insists that most human beings are damned upon death? I have read this blog commentary 16 by Jimmy Akin, but
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I’ve been teaching, sharing and explaining our Catholic Faith for nearly 30 years; and agree completely with Mr Akins {whom I admire}; it takes courage and convection to go public like this.

I Know that a problem cannot be cured with being known.

To some this may be SHOCKING; to me it’s WE NEED TO PRAY and teach Christ Beautiful Catholic Faith FULLY!

Easter Blessings,
PJM
 
How about the narrow gate the Christ spoke of in Matthew 7:13?
 
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yes.
There are some things beyond our pay grade. Knowing who and how many are in hell is one of those.
It’s good to admit it and live like tomorrow will not come.
 
One of the saints - Theresa ?
She said she saw souls falling into hell like snowflakes.

One guy in Hell - appeared in a vision to a Priest
and asked him if the earth was any longer populated -
because of the sheer magnitude of individuals entering Hell that day.
 
I sadly believe that many people will be damned. I don’t know if I can go so far as to say most, but when I read accounts of the saints talking about souls raining into Hell, and when I see the massive amount of sin in our world…

Between abortion, pornography, rampant promiscuity, spiritual indifference, spiritual relativism, and the growth of atheism…

I mean… I am actively trying to make it to Heaven, and I can barely go more than w eek without falling into serious sin… What about all those people who don’t care, or actively reject God’s law…
 
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Saint Faustina also said she saw a bunch of souls walking off into the abyss. Most private revelations give the indication that a lot of souls go to hell. Probably for a reason…
 
Seagull said:
One guy in Hell - appeared in a vision to a Priest
and asked him if the earth was any longer populated -
because of the sheer magnitude of individuals entering Hell that day.
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Do you happen to know who this was? I’m very interested in the saint’s accounts of Hell.
 
Yeah, I think it was Brittany, who suggested a book -
" Dogma of Hell " -
it’s only 135 pages - paperback type book -
but it’s loaded - with high caliber reports.
 
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Kei said:
I agree that the grace is undeserved, and that the act of praying is pushed onto us by God, but the Catholic teaching is that we have to take up of it.
I can still reject the push to pray by grace. Likewise, I still can sin even though I was given more than enough graces to avoid it. This is the small, tiny part of free will and choice. I suppose my view may be closer to Molinism in this case, but do not think I completely conform to it.
God knows everything, and it would seem Jesus died for all people. It would also seem we have to still “take up” of these merits. Always and everywhere, God’s Grace is so constantly at work. Yet, we all are offered the chance to be saved. God knows who will or who will not be saved. However, He always gives enough grace for the salvation of any particular soul. Such I believe.
Click to expand...
Correct across the board. You affirm unmerited grace, the need for free response, God’s foreknowledge.

What you seem to need to gain a better understanding of is the order of grace. Put simply (based on Molinist thought), if we had only two people in existence, A, and B, God will give both A and B sufficient grace to be saved. Let’s say God gives A graces GA1 and GA2, while he gives B graces GB1 and GB2. Let’s also say that if both these guys responded to all these graces, they would be saved.

But further, God knows by his middle knowledge that A’s response to GA1 will ensure his salvation, and B’s free response to GB3 will ensure his salvation. Except that for whatever reason, God did not give B grace GB3.

As a result, let’s say A freely responds to grace GA1 but rejects GA2. He then makes it to heaven. B, on the other hand, rejected both GB1 and GB2. If he had, he would have been saved, but he didn’t. So he goes to hell. Had God given him GB3, he would have made it to heaven as well, but God did not. This is his sove

This makes A predestined, and B reprobate, according to Molinist thought. Yet, we must affirm that God had given A and B sufficient grace to be saved, and that A went to heaven with his free cooperation, and B went to hell due to his free rejection of grace. But if grace GB3 had been given to B, he could have been saved too, since God knew B would have freely responded to it, so why didn’t God do so?

To this question we really have to answer “we don’t know” and the Church has declined to do define it as well. We only know that God has laid out a fixed order of grace, and our free will factors into it. Regardless of what school of thought we subscribe to, we will not be able fully reconcile grace and free will.
 
Awesome! Thank you!

I can’t say I enjoy reading these accounts of Hell, but it certainly is motivating and informative.
 
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SammyRose said:
How about the narrow gate the Christ spoke of in Matthew 7:13?
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As mentioned. We are not bound to a limited reading of that passage. It CAN be used to support a “most are damned” position, which the Church does not oppose, but it does not limit us to that one interpretation. Other passages, such as 1 Tim 2:4, 2 Peter 2:9, and other theological dogmas divinely revealed, especially those pertaining to God, also allow us to expect that most will be saved, and Purgatory, after all, also exists, yet another testament to God’s mercy.

The Narrow Gate passage can be read in harmony with the rest of Scripture and divinely revealed Tradition such that a majority-saved position is not excluded.

And don’t even get me started on private revelation. They do not form my catechetical foundation. I have nothing to do with them.
 
porthos11 said:
To this question we really have to answer “we don’t know” and the Church has declined to do define it as well. We only know that God has laid out a fixed order of grace, and our free will factors into it. Regardless of what school of thought we subscribe to, we will not be able fully reconcile grace and free will.
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This presupposes that:
1: God ever withhold a grace from us as an act of His will.
2: There is ever any singular act of grace that can result in our salvation.

I disagree with both assumptions. I do not believe God would ever withhold a grace from someone if there was any chance of that person accepting it, even unto death. I also do not think it is right to consider the grace of God in terms of singular instances that He will give or withhold at will.
 
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