Most literal translation?

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It has already been pointed out that the KJV and the NIV are not Catholic translations.

I do not think it is necessary to stay away from non-Catholic translations.

My favorites are the NRSV (CE), the NASB and the NAB, especially the first of these. I consider these close to the Greek, reliable and readable.
 
I guess the closest you could get to a literal word for word translation would be strong’s concordance of the bible or a mechanical translation. There are several mechanical translations of the Torah that have the literal word for word translation followed by the hewbrew. Unless you want to learn Hewbrew or Greek the mechanical translation isn’t much help. If you are looking for a good literal translation of the bible I would recommend the Latin Vulgate which you can get online at Project Gutenburg.
 
If you are looking for a word for word translation…

mechanical-translation.org/mtg_rmt_genesis01.html

1 in the summit Elohiym fattened the sky and the land, 2 and the land had existed in confusion and was unfilled and darkness was upon the face of the deep sea and the wind of Elohiym was much fluttering upon the face of the water, 3 and Elohiym said, light exist and light existed, 4 and Elohiym saw the light given that it was functional and Elohiym made a separation between the light and the darkness, 5 and Elohiym called out to the light day and to the darkness he called out night and evening existed and morning existed one day, 6 and Elohiym said, a sheet will exist in the midst of the water and he existed making a separation between water to water,
 
It has already been pointed out that the KJV and the NIV are not Catholic translations.

I do not think it is necessary to stay away from non-Catholic translations.

My favorites are the NRSV (CE), the NASB and the NAB, especially the first of these. I consider these close to the Greek, reliable and readable.
please explain. I disagree with you.
 
**tobinatorstark **

You wrote:
Originally Posted by NoelFitz View Post
I wrote It has already been pointed out that the KJV and the NIV are not Catholic translations.
I do not think it is necessary to stay away from non-Catholic translations.
My favorites are the NRSV (CE), the NASB and the NAB, especially the first of these. I consider these close to the Greek, reliable and readable.
please explain. I disagree with you.
I am not sure where you disagree with me.

However many people do. I have no problem with this.

However I try to be an orthodox Catholic and I hope I never write anything contrary to the Fairh.

1 I wrote* It has already been pointed out that the KJV and the NIV are not Catholic translations.* I think this is a statement of fact. Please look at other posts in this discussion.
  1. I also wrote *I think there are many fine non-Catholic translations, suitable for study. *This is my opinion.
  2. Again I wrote *My favorites are the NRSV (CE), the NASB and the NAB, especially the first of these. I consider these close to the Greek, reliable and readable. * This is also an opinion of mine. You may not agree. But I hold my opinions in good faith.
I try to live up to my motto
in necessary things unity, in doubtful things freedom, in all things charity.
 
what fault to you find in the JERUSALEM Translation is it scholarly or the fact that the translation was french then english ? if so this is pure prejudice and is not based on the scholarly context of the Jerusalem Bible .
 
**tobinatorstark **

You wrote:

I am not sure where you disagree with me.

However many people do. I have no problem with this.

However I try to be an orthodox Catholic and I hope I never write anything contrary to the Fairh.

1 I wrote* It has already been pointed out that the KJV and the NIV are not Catholic translations.* I think this is a statement of fact. Please look at other posts in this discussion.
  1. I also wrote *I think there are many fine non-Catholic translations, suitable for study. *This is my opinion.
  2. Again I wrote *My favorites are the NRSV (CE), the NASB and the NAB, especially the first of these. I consider these close to the Greek, reliable and readable. * This is also an opinion of mine. You may not agree. But I hold my opinions in good faith.
I try to live up to my motto
I have no problem with a Catholic reading a Catholic translation, but really non Catholic versions should be avoided. Take in consideration this post posted by Canto in another thread from an encyclical from Pope Leo XIII

Pope Leo XIII, Apostolic Constitution Officiorum ac Munerum, Jan. 25, 1897, art. 1., “Of the Prohibition of Books,” chaps. 2,3, trans. in the Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII (New York: Benziger, 1903):[p. 412]

CHAPTER II.
Of Editions of the Original Text of Holy Scripture and of Versions not in the Vernacular.
  1. Editions of the original text and of the ancient Catholic versions of Holy Scripture, as well as those of the Eastern Church, if published by non-Catholics, even though apparently edited in a faithful and complete manner, are allowed only to those engaged in theological and biblical studies, provided also that the dogmas of Catholic faith are not impugned in the prolegomena or annotations.
  2. In the same manner, and under the same conditions, other versions of the Holy Bible, whether in Latin or in any other dead language, published by non-Catholics, are permitted.
CHAPTER III.
Of Vernacular Versions of Holy Scripture.
  1. As it has been clearly shown by experience that, if the Holy Bible in the vernacular is generally permitted without any distinction, more harm that utility is thereby [p. 413] caused, owing to human temerity: all versions in the vernacular, even by Catholics, are altogether prohibited, unless approved by the Holy See, or published, under the vigilant care of the bishops, with annotations taken from the Fathers of the Church and learned Catholic writers.
  2. All versions of the Holy Bible, in any vernacular language, made by non-Catholics are prohibited; and especially those published by the Bible societies, which have been more that once condemned by the Roman Pontiffs, because in them the wise laws of the Church concerning the publication of the sacred books are entirely disregarded.
Nevertheless, these versions are permitted to students of theological or biblical science, under the conditions laid down above (No. 5)

Found this on a dodgy anti-Catholic site saying we banned the Bible - and pigs might fly.

It would seem that we should read transaltions approved by the Church. But that non-Catholic transaltions can be read for study if the notes don’t criticise or cast doubt on dogma.

A Catholic translation has to be approved by a council of Bishops (i.e. the US Bishops approved the NAB) or the Holy See. In my op, such a translation is what we should read. For apologetic and evangelic or study purpouses if we know our faith then we could read an unauthorised translation, but not as our main Bible for reading. Hope this makes sense.

Also I disagree that the NAB is closer to the Greek. The NAB isn’t reliable especially in footnotes, while it is readable, but not entirely accurate.
 
what fault to you find in the JERUSALEM Translation is it scholarly or the fact that the translation was french then english ? if so this is pure prejudice and is not based on the scholarly context of the Jerusalem Bible .
I honestly think the JB isn’t that bad of a Bible. It is quite better than the NJB. Somethings could be better. Many people here know I prefer the Douay-Rheims over any English Translation, I do have respect for the JB
 
The English Standard version is a word-for-word translation. It’s Protestant, but I think it’s nice to have other translations for study.
 
The English Standard version is a word-for-word translation. It’s Protestant, but I think it’s nice to have other translations for study.
Please explain why we should read a Protestant Edition over an approved edition from the Catholic Church. What evidence do you have that the ESV is a word for word translation???
 
I have no problem with a Catholic reading a Catholic translation, but really non Catholic versions should be avoided. Take in consideration this post posted by Canto in another thread from an encyclical from Pope Leo XIII

Pope Leo XIII, Apostolic Constitution Officiorum ac Munerum, Jan. 25, 1897, art. 1., “Of the Prohibition of Books,” chaps. 2,3, trans. in the Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII (New York: Benziger, 1903):[p. 412]

CHAPTER II.
Of Editions of the Original Text of Holy Scripture and of Versions not in the Vernacular.
  1. Editions of the original text and of the ancient Catholic versions of Holy Scripture, as well as those of the Eastern Church, if published by non-Catholics, even though apparently edited in a faithful and complete manner, are allowed only to those engaged in theological and biblical studies, provided also that the dogmas of Catholic faith are not impugned in the prolegomena or annotations.
  2. In the same manner, and under the same conditions, other versions of the Holy Bible, whether in Latin or in any other dead language, published by non-Catholics, are permitted.
CHAPTER III.
Of Vernacular Versions of Holy Scripture.
  1. As it has been clearly shown by experience that, if the Holy Bible in the vernacular is generally permitted without any distinction, more harm that utility is thereby [p. 413] caused, owing to human temerity: all versions in the vernacular, even by Catholics, are altogether prohibited, unless approved by the Holy See, or published, under the vigilant care of the bishops, with annotations taken from the Fathers of the Church and learned Catholic writers.
  2. All versions of the Holy Bible, in any vernacular language, made by non-Catholics are prohibited; and especially those published by the Bible societies, which have been more that once condemned by the Roman Pontiffs, because in them the wise laws of the Church concerning the publication of the sacred books are entirely disregarded.
Nevertheless, these versions are permitted to students of theological or biblical science, under the conditions laid down above (No. 5)

Found this on a dodgy anti-Catholic site saying we banned the Bible - and pigs might fly.

It would seem that we should read transaltions approved by the Church. But that non-Catholic transaltions can be read for study if the notes don’t criticise or cast doubt on dogma.

A Catholic translation has to be approved by a council of Bishops (i.e. the US Bishops approved the NAB) or the Holy See. In my op, such a translation is what we should read. For apologetic and evangelic or study purpouses if we know our faith then we could read an unauthorised translation, but not as our main Bible for reading. Hope this makes sense.

Also I disagree that the NAB is closer to the Greek. The NAB isn’t reliable especially in footnotes, while it is readable, but not entirely accurate.
Tobinatorstark,

You make the same mistake in citing Canto (who indeed is citing two different sides of an opinion) as I have pointed out in the use of citations by other posters, to wit: out of context!

And, believe me, I agree with you completely with regard to the accuracy of the NAB (and the issues with the NAB footnotes) but I must ask a legitimate question:

Are you qualified to judge the legitimacy of the various Greek translations? What is your background in the ancient languages?
 
what fault to you find in the JERUSALEM Translation is it scholarly or the fact that the translation was french then english ? if so this is pure prejudice and is not based on the scholarly context of the Jerusalem Bible .
The Jerusalem Bible (the original) is not a bad translation. However, it is not a translation from the original languages to English. It is a translation from the original languages to French and then to English.

Prejudice has nothing to do with it. The issue here is this: the more languages a translation goes through, the more likely translation errors or non-equivalents will appear. Even discounting the unfortunate use of horizontal inclusive language, the New Jerusalem Bible has the advantage of translation from the original languages to English, without the intervening translation to the French.
 
Tobinatorstark,

You make the same mistake in citing Canto (who indeed is citing two different sides of an opinion) as I have pointed out in the use of citations by other posters, to wit: out of context!

And, believe me, I agree with you completely with regard to the accuracy of the NAB (and the issues with the NAB footnotes) but I must ask a legitimate question:

Are you qualified to judge the legitimacy of the various Greek translations? What is your background in the ancient languages?
how is this document out of context??
 
The NASB is a protestant one?
Is there not a Catholic edition?
I do have a job lot of translations -

KJV
RSV:CE
RSV:SCE
NRSV:CE
JB
NJB
NIV
The Message (LOL)
And in the post: DRCV

But I shall investigate some of those mentioned above!
Unfortunately, the translators of the NASB do not regard the deutero-canonicals as inspired, so they will never publish one as part of the NASB; ditto for the NIV, though I have little regard for this piece of work.

The English Standard Version (ESV) recently released an edition (from Oxford) with the Apocrypha. While the ESV is FAR superior to the NIV, the NASB still appears to be the favorite for its degree of literalism.
 
The Jerusalem Bible (the original) is not a bad translation. However, it is not a translation from the original languages to English. It is a translation from the original languages to French and then to English.

Prejudice has nothing to do with it. The issue here is this: the more languages a translation goes through, the more likely translation errors or non-equivalents will appear. Even discounting the unfortunate use of horizontal inclusive language, the New Jerusalem Bible has the advantage of translation from the original languages to English, without the intervening translation to the French.
While you and I are in agreement re the NJB, I have to take issue with you re the JB; to wit, most, not all, of it, was indeed translated from the original languages, Only where the translators faced (what they regarded as) insurmountable difficulties with the Hebrew or Greek did they translate from the French and tried to reconcile it with the original. However, it is too loose a translation (too dynamic-equivalent) compared to the NJB, and I don’t particularly care for it.

The fact that the JB is used in the Lectionary in some countries doesn’t matter much to me. So is the RNAB and the NRSV, and I dislike both of them. I’m steamed that either of these was able to get approval for Lectionary use over the NJB, with its sparing use of horizontal inclusive language. :mad:
 
Manfred
You wrote:
The fact that the JB is used in the Lectionary in some countries doesn’t matter much to me. So is the RNAB and the NRSV, and I dislike both of them. I’m steamed that either of these was able to get approval for Lectionary use over the NJB, with its sparing use of horizontal inclusive language.
I am pleased to feel free to express your views so strongly.

Here we are very much into the realm of personal opinions. But I do think the views of bishops should be treated with respect.

In Ireland (as in England, Scotland and Wales) the readings at Mass are from the JB, and not the NJB.

My favorite is still the NRSV (CE), next to this I like the NASB and the NAB.
 
You can get the electronic version of the original douay for less money here;
churchlatin.com/DouayRheims.aspx
lulu.com/content/1805871
But it is scans of pages and so the print is not crisp and clear.
Thanks for the interesting links Ron! 👍 I see that both sources have used the old Gordon Winrod facsimile edition as their sample. I wonder if they reproduce Winrod’s original introduction? It’s amazing to me how one rather negligible edition will suddenly be resurrected and become a de facto standard. Sort of like the Troy Bible being made a de facto standard by all of the Haydock Bibles (which have again been resurrected and continue to be in print.) 😉
 
Thanks for the interesting links Ron! 👍 I see that both sources have used the old Gordon Winrod facsimile edition as their sample. I wonder if they reproduce Winrod’s original introduction? It’s amazing to me how one rather negligible edition will suddenly be resurrected and become a de facto standard. Sort of like the Troy Bible being made a de facto standard by all of the Haydock Bibles (which have again been resurrected and continue to be in print.) 😉
I just emailed Baronius Press (www.baroniuspress.com) asking them what their edition is, and it is definitely a DRCV. However, they said a reproduction of the original text is definitely not ruled out. I expressed my interest and support - should anyone else think this is a good idea, email them on info@baroniuspress.com or through the contact page!
 
Unfortunately, the translators of the NASB do not regard the deutero-canonicals as inspired, so they will never publish one as part of the NASB; ditto for the NIV, though I have little regard for this piece of work.

The English Standard Version (ESV) recently released an edition (from Oxford) with the Apocrypha. While the ESV is FAR superior to the NIV, the NASB still appears to be the favorite for its degree of literalism.
While both the New American Standard Bible and the New International Version are Protestant translations, and did not translate the Deuterocanonical books, the New American Standard Bible took great pains with the original Hebrew and Greek to be as exact as possible while recognizing the limitations of translation. This is why the NASB, while meticulous in translation is nearly useless for reading aloud. We just don’t “talk that way”! On the other hand, the New International Version is more of a “dynamic equivalent” translation, allowing for easier readability (especially reading aloud) but a less strictly accurate translation – and more room for translator bias.
 
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